Future locations for the convention?

[Kimiski]

This is mostly my suggestion to the con staff, I forgot to talk about at the Rant and Rave.
Though if anyone else has any suggestions, here would be a good place to post it:


So, at the rant and rave it was brought up when we should move into an actual convention center. I understand why we can't yet. But I have a suggestion I was going to say at the rant and rave (and forgot) when everyone started talking about why the Expo Center wouldn't be a good location until they built more around it, which I doubt will happen anytime soon.

Instead of the Expo Center, what about the Oregon Convention Center, for 2011 or that day in the future when we are ready to move to a con center? I've been there before for art shows during high school, and the inside layout was great and very pretty!

West Holiday Park and the Llyod Center are just a few blocks away.

Right across the street they have a Red Lion Hotel, an Inn for the Con center, a Shilo Inn, and a Motel 6. And a couple streets away is the La Quinta Inn, and Courtyard Hotel. And by the park and lyyod center is the Double Tree the con once was at, Hotel d'angleterre. And a few blocks away from where the Red Lion is, is another Shilo Inn. The Tri-Met stops right next to the center and goes by most all these hotels. For food, all within a block and right next to the Red-Lion hotel, there is a starBucks, Dennys and a Red Robins, BurgarVille and Subway.

As far as hotels go, I heard alot of people talking about Red Lion on the River from 2006, and Doubletree again this year. Those two are my favorites we've been to so far as well.

[leonmasteries]

I would agree about the convention center, because this years con was huge, and as I heard, on Saturday, they couldn't accept anyone else in, including people who Pre-Redged, and they had to refund the pre redged people.

[Shadow]

I'd like to see K-con back at the Hilton in Vancouver. There was that giant park just across the street, which would really cut down on over-crowding in the hotel. Great location too.

[kylite]

not speaking for everyone but the red lion was a nightmare. end of story. I loved the hilton in vancouver, and I loved the double tree. This hotel is a beautiful hotel but ... *shrugs* since we are there next year we can plan accordingly for all the complaint issues to resolve them and try to make the convention as great as ever

[Hidamari]

Ive never been inside it, but the Marriot might be nice because of waterfront park right across the street.

[kylite]

Marriott's capacity is rather small. we were there a few years back and using half the space our cap was 1000. (it really sucked having to be the one turning people away)

[Kagome219]

From what I have heard and know about Portland, there aren't a whole lot of hotels that can hold our size of a group, especially if it keeps growing. I, personally, would like the Double Tree again; it is convenient to get to, has a park AND a mall right next to it, and it wasn't overly fancy, but still nice to maneuver in.

[Kurohime]

I quite liked the Vancouver site too, only there wasn't much open for food late.  It had that wonderful park and the double-story glass lobby which was great for people-watching.  The layout of the Doubletree confusing, but otherwise good.  Heck, I even found the Hilton pleasant, other than the bum that told me to "Burn in Hell!"  in the Square.  I don't really want to do this downtown anymore.  And we really need bigger panel rooms. 

Might I suggest the Memorial Coliseum?  It has quite a few rooms underneath and has hosted a lot of small conventions.  There's a Red Lion across the street.  The only problem would be food, but I don't remember it being a horrible walk. 

[Kagome219]

If it's the same Red Lion that was mentioned at the Rant and Rave, the Kumoricon staff said that it is too small to hold the usual amount of guests that sign up for Kumoricon.

[Kurohime]

I think they were talking about the Jantzen Beach Red Lion?  This one is right next to the Coliseum. 

[kylite]

the doubletree top out was around 4k I believe.

each location limits us on space becasue we have to comply with fire code AND still have enough space to make the convention fun. Tho having the park and mall nearby did make things a bit easier.

[Kurohime]

Perhaps some of the local universities would also be up to hosting us?  Lots of rooms, meeting halls, and empty dormitories to rent out.  And park-ish quads. 

[Sayda]

Instead of having it in Portland, why not try somewhere near Portland? Like Tigard, or Beaverton. A friend brought up trying the Embassy Suites in Tigard/Beaverton, which is right next to Washington Square Mall. I'm not sure how big it is, but they told me it was fairly big, and close to the mall.

[AllyKat]

I'm curious to know the logistics of a convention at the Convention Centre itself...

I've heard people arbitrarily throw the number 8,000 around as a base for how many
attendees we'd need before we can book the convention centre and still be fiscally
responsible. I'm curious as to the comparison in price, seeing as the requirements of
security, and rule abiding, contract issues and creating exclusive deals (non-compete
contracts and the like) for con-hotel room discounts seems to me to be relatively high,
I would wonder that, with the amount of hotels located so close by on the fareless
square max line... what kind of increase would be required to have the con at the
Convention centre? A bump in Reg prices? 40 to start? Going to 60? for full reign of
the Convention Centre (or at least a good chunk of space in it?) and the ability to
choose our favorite hotels... that may be the way to go... looking at the occ's website
the options are:

Inn @ the convention centre - 97 rooms
La Quinta @ convention centre - 79 rooms
Red Lion Convention Centre - 174 rooms
Shillo Inn @ the Convention Centre - 40 rooms
Marriot Residence Inn - 168 rooms
Courtyard by Marriot - 256 rooms

And clearly the choice everyone wants.....

The Double Tree @ Llyod Centre - 480 rooms


Thats a grand total of 1295 rooms available in the area of the
Convention center, all within 5 blocks of the convention centre,
almost ALL of which are on that max line that shoots right by the
Convention centre itself!

With almost double the room availability in the area, and maybe
just a bit more walking around time, it's clear that this is the option
for the future, the question is, just how feasible for our con is it.
Clearly we are at that in-between stage where we just aren't quite
large enough to justify the OCC but we are far to big to really work
within a Hotel... these next few years will really determine us and it's
time to start planning conventions right way, if only behind the scenes
so as to keep things from becoming too much too late.

(This post took me way to long to write... but finding the room ammounts
and making sure they were all within relatively peaceful walking/max distance
of the convention space made it a bit of a hunt! ^_^ )

~Allykat

[catboy-trades]

I'm curious to know the logistics of a convention at the Convention Centre itself...

I've heard people arbitrarily throw the number 8,000 around as a base for how many
attendees we'd need before we can book the convention centre and still be fiscally
responsible. I'm curious as to the comparison in price, seeing as the requirements of
security, and rule abiding, contract issues and creating exclusive deals (non-compete
contracts and the like) for con-hotel room discounts seems to me to be relatively high,
I would wonder that, with the amount of hotels located so close by on the fareless
square max line... what kind of increase would be required to have the con at the
Convention centre? A bump in Reg prices? 40 to start? Going to 60? for full reign of
the Convention Centre (or at least a good chunk of space in it?) and the ability to
choose our favorite hotels... that may be the way to go... looking at the occ's website
the options are:

Inn @ the convention centre - 97 rooms
La Quinta @ convention centre - 79 rooms
Red Lion Convention Centre - 174 rooms
Shillo Inn @ the Convention Centre - 40 rooms
Marriot Residence Inn - 168 rooms
Courtyard by Marriot - 256 rooms

And clearly the choice everyone wants.....

The Double Tree @ Llyod Centre - 480 rooms


Thats a grand total of 1295 rooms available in the area of the
Convention center, all within 5 blocks of the convention centre,
almost ALL of which are on that max line that shoots right by the
Convention centre itself!

With almost double the room availability in the area, and maybe
just a bit more walking around time, it's clear that this is the option
for the future, the question is, just how feasible for our con is it.
Clearly we are at that in-between stage where we just aren't quite
large enough to justify the OCC but we are far to big to really work
within a Hotel... these next few years will really determine us and it's
time to start planning conventions right way, if only behind the scenes
so as to keep things from becoming too much too late.

(This post took me way to long to write... but finding the room ammounts
and making sure they were all within relatively peaceful walking/max distance
of the convention space made it a bit of a hunt! ^_^ )

~Allykat

NICE POST!  Great job and very well put together.  I just hope someone on Kcon staff sees this and realizes how good of an idea this is.

[Sayda]

I concur. If there's so many hotels within such a close distance, then I'm not really sure what people are talking about when they say that there aren't any nearby hotels. Either they're lazy, or they're talking about a different convention center then the one listed above.

[Hazuza]

And I'm confused. People keep saying we can't use a convention center because of lack of hotels, lack of event rooms, etc etc...

So what happens when we reach 10,000 attendees? It's not like there's much other choice, they just seem to be dodging it.

[leonmasteries]

as I kept hearing, they had to actually refuse a lot of people (pre redges mostly) because we had already reached our max by 12 on Saturday... So the way I'm seeing it is, if they had to refuse entry to people who have pre redged, that means that we are far to big already for a hotel.

[Himeno]

Kumoricon needs the convention center. They can no longer fit in a hotel (or a university). Kumoricon is just delaying it if they say they can't move because they don't have x amount of people. If they moved next year (not that they can with the current venue contract, but still...), they would have the x amount.
Kumoricon either needs to stall growth (too late for that now), put in a reg cap (possible, but also kinda too late - it would need to cut attendance for that to work) or move to the convention center.

SakuraCon went from ~5,000 in their last year at the SeaTac airport hotels to ~8,000 the first year at the con center.
Manifest went from 4,800 at a university to almost 7,000 at the showgrounds.

A number of people are saying how much they like old venues, often because of how much "space" there was that year. Just think about how many more people there are vs how many there were then. Kumoricon can not fit in any venue it has been in to date.

[Kahlan4]

the post by allykat should be forwarded to staff members or something... i'm not sure who would be the one to give that info to... hope k-con gets to be in a bigger venue in 2011, because it's already killing me that i have no desire to go next year since the location is the same and i, eve, and our friends, didn't really have a great experience this year. i mean, we all loved hanging out with each other, but that's not the reason we go to k-con (we could do that any day and not have to pay for a hotel/registration, lol)

[XFD]

One of the complaints with the Oregon Convention Center is that the distance between it and the hotels is too far for late night con-goers to have a reasonable blanket of safety (walking).

I was thinking about it, most hotels have shuttle services for airports; figuring the volumes of guests showing up for the convention they should be able to accommodate a shuttle to run between the two. Even if they have to hire on an extra body to run it. So the issue of safety isn't there should such a thing become reality.

[Trumby]

as I kept hearing, they had to actually refuse a lot of people (pre redges mostly) because we had already reached our max by 12 on Saturday... So the way I'm seeing it is, if they had to refuse entry to people who have pre redged, that means that we are far to big already for a hotel.

I'm fairly certain we weren't turning away prereg folks, because we it'd seem like we couldn't turn them away, as they have already paid for their registration. I know we stopped at con reg on Saturday because of this, though.

As for the location, I would say that the convention center pretty much has to be our next stop. We are going to keep growing and there is already almost no hotels that can hold us as we are. The biggest thing with the convention center I can see is we don't get the discounts on the event rooms plus the hotel rooms. Which also means it will be harder to get discounts on the hotel room rates because we aren't using the hotel event rooms. But that is just my speculation with a lack of knowledge on how the convention center stuff is done.

[leonmasteries]

as I kept hearing, they had to actually refuse a lot of people (pre reges mostly) because we had already reached our max by 12 on Saturday... So the way I'm seeing it is, if they had to refuse entry to people who have pre reged, that means that we are far to big already for a hotel.

I'm fairly certain we weren't turning away prereg folks, because we it'd seem like we couldn't turn them away, as they have already paid for their registration. I know we stopped at con reg on Saturday because of this, though.

that's all I heard, was that they were refunding the people who have pre reged... but like you said, it might not have happened because they've already paid for it, but it's what I kept hearing, but do to me not seeing it, my word isn't at all valid, and I haven't read any complaints about that, so it's probably just people blowing steam out their rear's.

[Sayda]

If the Convention Center is used, the staff should look into how Sakuracon gets their surrounding hotels to offer room discounts for those attending their convention.

[Himeno]

The biggest thing with the convention center I can see is we don't get the discounts on the event rooms plus the hotel rooms. Which also means it will be harder to get discounts on the hotel room rates because we aren't using the hotel event rooms. But that is just my speculation with a lack of knowledge on how the convention center stuff is done.

That changes from convention center to convention center. Some have attached hotels which offer discounts with center bookings, others have attached hotels that don't. Some have standing deals with nearby hotels, others don't.
What will most likely be required (which is what most conventions in con centers do) is book the convention center, then work out room block deals with the nearby hotels.

[Crazed_But_Fun]

At the rant and rave they said they'd have to gut the entire convention and get rid of a crap load of stuff to just be able to afford a convention center. 

As it stands we just don't have the money for a real convention center, but we do have a standing agreement with the one in Portland so if we have the money and enough people one year we can hold it there.

But I agree with going to the Hilton in Vancouver again.  Besides food and not many surrounding hotels, that worked out really well.

[Crazed_But_Fun]

Sorry my computer posted that twice

[DancingTofu]

I think the only option for next year would be to satellite the space out to a handful of other venues nearby.  The Portland Art Museum and Arlene Schnitzer Concert Hall are the first two that come to mind.  I think the art museum especially might be a good option because we're a convention which focuses around topics that you might find in their exhibits, so it's possible that they could even become a major partner with us, and we could use their exhibit spaces to present things such as the art show, as well as using their HUGE event spaces (nearly 15000 square feet of space available) to draw people out of the crowded and clumsy hotel.

[Kimiski]

One of the complaints with the Oregon Convention Center is that the distance between it and the hotels is too far for late night con-goers to have a reasonable blanket of safety (walking).

I was thinking about it, most hotels have shuttle services for airports; figuring the volumes of guests showing up for the convention they should be able to accommodate a shuttle to run between the two. Even if they have to hire on an extra body to run it. So the issue of safety isn't there should such a thing become reality.

Um, read my first post.
There are PLENTY of hotels right across the street. (The Expo Center and the Oregon Convention Center are two differn't things. I'm talking about the Oregon Convention Center. Google Map it.)  And I mean, right across the street. You can wave from the convention center to someone who would stay at the red lion hotel? Forget something? Run across the street, go to your room, and run back across the street to the convention.

Again, there's subway, dennys, burgarville, and red robins across the street on the other side of the hotels. Would take five minutes walking minimum, I know, we've done it. And just a few blocks from the center, is the llyod center and a park cosplayers could go to. With the Tri-met stoping right next to the convention center.

As far as discount prices for these hotels, I don't see how they could be more expensive even without a disctount, then this years hotel was with a discount. The hilton is very expensive. I see the convention center as the perfect set-up for a convention, even if Kumoricon can't do it anytime soon, I'm saying for future refrence everything that people say we need for the con is right there. Though, I agree with the post that if we're turning alot of people away, and Sakura-con did the same thing, we should be able to fit in a convention center soon.

Btw, great post AllyKat.
Are there any forums mods or anyone who can point this thread out to the staff? That was my whole intention in posting this, was so staff can read about the center.

[NickelZinc13]

I keep reading suggestions about the Vancouver Hilton. I'll quote my post from another thread into here.

I know it's out of the question, but I still would love for Kumoricon to return to the Vancouver Hilton. That was the best year of Kumoricon in my opinion, in every way. The hotel was large, it was directly across the street from an enormous and spacious park, it was not in the heart of a consistently-crowded urban district. That location had everything going for it, and I think even the increased numbers would function better there than at the Downtown Portland Hilton.

But, I know this is useless talking, I just wanted to express how much I loved that location. I'd marry it if I were a building (because only a building can marry another building, lol). 

I agree with this, being that I live in that area. (By the way, it actually is just in the outskirt of the city's "consistently-crowded urban district.)

The Esther Short Park was perfect for photoshoots and the ever-fun Glomp Circle.

The area has enough small fast-food places to eat.

C-Tran and Trimet have easy access to the Hilton.

Vancouver is far-less populated than that of Portland, yet it is just across the river.

Alternate hotels are nearby.

And that Hilton is very spacious!

Though I'd prefer the DoubleTree, I cannot and would not turn down Vancouver Hilton. (Also, it was my first Kumoricon. <3)

[AllyKat]

If the Convention Center is used, the staff should look into how Sakuracon gets their surrounding hotels to offer room discounts for those attending their convention.

I agree, I also want to point out that the argument of late night travel is moot to a point.
This convention utilized 2 different hotel towers aproximately 1 block away from eachother (well
caddycorner to be specific but, across the street at the least) And while people said there were
leering bums and creepy downtown portlanders, from what I gather of previous cons at the doubletree
this was limited in that area. I have been to several concerts/events at the convention centre
and the rose garden, many of which have gotten out in the late hours. With the massive amount of
con-goers heading back from events to there rooms, plus Yojimbo staff itself, I don't see why this
would be different from any other con that occurs at a convention centre.

Basically we are arguing symantics. Some people prefer the small-venue hotel convention for
the convenience of centralization and security of location. That is valid and understandable.
Unfortunately Kumori-con is too big to cater to that brand of con-goer any longer. We are a convention
of great stature in the Oregon-State area and as such we have to provide for that fan base.
Concessions, such as having events directly occuring where you are sleeping may have to be made.
However in the long run you are looking at a convention that has more space, more control and
a better chance to grow and attract the kind of acts and exhibits as well as guests that we want
for K-con.

We really honestly don't have a choice in this. It's either stifle the growth of the con (which is truly
a maddeningly ridiculous concept) or move to a larger, though less compact venue.


People who are afraid of walking from convention centre to the MAXIMUM 5 block/2 stop max ride
hotels can simply make absolutely sure they are first to pre-book a room at the convention centre's
own hotel or one of the other hotels literally RIGHT ACCROSS THE STREET from the centre.
I really don't know where any one got the idea that it is such a long walk from hotel to convention hall
but it is simply not true. It wouldn't make sense for them to build a convention centre so far from
the hotels so why would this be an issue? Minors shouldn't be walking around so late at night without
a parent to accompany them anyway... Sakura-con requires under 18ers to have a gaurdian at all times..
this may be why.

While I'm not suggesting K-con become a mirror of Sakura-con, (I personally feel Portland is a much
friendlier and safer town then seattle) I think we need to all calm down and look at this logically, you
cannot have your cake (which is a lie) and defeat gladis too. We have to solve the issues at hand and
hope that through extensive planning and preparation the Convention Centre in Portland will provide us
the tools we need to pull this off. It seems just by being a normal civilian I can go on their website and
surf some basic information about hosting an event there, they seem very well informed on what people
need and are VERY willing to help you in planning any specific type of convention. Perhaps in the comming
months or year we could send delegations of the Kumo-con staff to do walkthroughs and meetings
with OCC staff and show them pictures of previous cons, videos or informationals on previous pannels,
exhibits, dealers halls and the like and see what they say is our best option. They may try to pitch you
a big sale, but in so doing they'll also prove to us whether or not they understand the concept of
an anime convention enough to help us make ours extremely fortuitous.

By the way, I appreciate the praise of my research, when I get into something, I tend to go overboard...
you'll find that if an issue arises, even if it isn't my place to figure out the answer, I enjoy the thrill of trying.
Heck, if I had permission I'd prolly go down to the OCC this weekend and see if I couldn't get a meeting
with someone who could walk me through there process for convention hall expos and meetings.
These people do this all day, for a job that they get money for, I imagine they have to be good at it or
they wouldn't last very long, and showing us that they know how to take care of us convinces us to
book with them... so they have to be real about it or people would start to talk about how bad the OCC is
at hosting events. I simply think it would be interesting to take a day trip out and see what is what on the
convention centre.

However, this is all assuming that K-con staff members haven't already done this, found things to be not
what we need at this time and moved on. They don't really have to tell us every little detail of every
little scavanger hunt they go on for the con. Alot of what they do is behind the scenes, the end result is
all we really see....

Food for thought at least!

~Allykat

[Manganix78]

If the Convention Center is used, the staff should look into how Sakuracon gets their surrounding hotels to offer room discounts for those attending their convention.

I agree, I also want to point out that the argument of late night travel is moot to a point.
This convention utilized 2 different hotel towers aproximately 1 block away from eachother (well
caddycorner to be specific but, across the street at the least) And while people said there were
leering bums and creepy downtown portlanders, from what I gather of previous cons at the doubletree
this was limited in that area. I have been to several concerts/events at the convention centre
and the rose garden, many of which have gotten out in the late hours. With the massive amount of
con-goers heading back from events to there rooms, plus Yojimbo staff itself, I don't see why this
would be different from any other con that occurs at a convention centre.

Basically we are arguing symantics. Some people prefer the small-venue hotel convention for
the convenience of centralization and security of location. That is valid and understandable.
Unfortunately Kumori-con is too big to cater to that brand of con-goer any longer. We are a convention
of great stature in the Oregon-State area and as such we have to provide for that fan base.
Concessions, such as having events directly occuring where you are sleeping may have to be made.
However in the long run you are looking at a convention that has more space, more control and
a better chance to grow and attract the kind of acts and exhibits as well as guests that we want
for K-con.

We really honestly don't have a choice in this. It's either stifle the growth of the con (which is truly
a maddeningly ridiculous concept) or move to a larger, though less compact venue.


People who are afraid of walking from convention centre to the MAXIMUM 5 block/2 stop max ride
hotels can simply make absolutely sure they are first to pre-book a room at the convention centre's
own hotel or one of the other hotels literally RIGHT ACCROSS THE STREET from the centre.
I really don't know where any one got the idea that it is such a long walk from hotel to convention hall
but it is simply not true. It wouldn't make sense for them to build a convention centre so far from
the hotels so why would this be an issue? Minors shouldn't be walking around so late at night without
a parent to accompany them anyway... Sakura-con requires under 18ers to have a gaurdian at all times..
this may be why.

While I'm not suggesting K-con become a mirror of Sakura-con, (I personally feel Portland is a much
friendlier and safer town then seattle) I think we need to all calm down and look at this logically, you
cannot have your cake (which is a lie) and defeat gladis too. We have to solve the issues at hand and
hope that through extensive planning and preparation the Convention Centre in Portland will provide us
the tools we need to pull this off. It seems just by being a normal civilian I can go on their website and
surf some basic information about hosting an event there, they seem very well informed on what people
need and are VERY willing to help you in planning any specific type of convention. Perhaps in the comming
months or year we could send delegations of the Kumo-con staff to do walkthroughs and meetings
with OCC staff and show them pictures of previous cons, videos or informationals on previous pannels,
exhibits, dealers halls and the like and see what they say is our best option. They may try to pitch you
a big sale, but in so doing they'll also prove to us whether or not they understand the concept of
an anime convention enough to help us make ours extremely fortuitous.

By the way, I appreciate the praise of my research, when I get into something, I tend to go overboard...
you'll find that if an issue arises, even if it isn't my place to figure out the answer, I enjoy the thrill of trying.
Heck, if I had permission I'd prolly go down to the OCC this weekend and see if I couldn't get a meeting
with someone who could walk me through there process for convention hall expos and meetings.
These people do this all day, for a job that they get money for, I imagine they have to be good at it or
they wouldn't last very long, and showing us that they know how to take care of us convinces us to
book with them... so they have to be real about it or people would start to talk about how bad the OCC is
at hosting events. I simply think it would be interesting to take a day trip out and see what is what on the
convention centre.

However, this is all assuming that K-con staff members haven't already done this, found things to be not
what we need at this time and moved on. They don't really have to tell us every little detail of every
little scavanger hunt they go on for the con. Alot of what they do is behind the scenes, the end result is
all we really see....

Food for thought at least!

~Allykat

Right............... I have absolutely no idea what you just said, but I am in full agreement for the con to take place at the convention center next year(hopefully......) 

[melchizedek]

Marriott's capacity is rather small. we were there a few years back and using half the space our cap was 1000. (it really sucked having to be the one turning people away)

  There is a new marriott down the street from the old one.  Not sure what the space would be if we used both, friend stayed at the new one for wedding and the rooms there are WAY nice.

[AllyKat]

 
what was confusing... did I rant too long?

Sorry....

I'm that girl who planned out her wedding to the most minute and severe
details at age 18 with the binders for each major role in the wedding and
check lists and to-do lists and progress lists... just in case. (plus of course
several color options becuase you never know whats going to work with
that mr. right!)

I think I'm gonna go sleep now, work shift starts in 6 hours but all I wanna do
is talk about future con-ness!

~Allykat

[Slash5150]

First off a minor rant.  Yes, it would be nice to be able to find a larger place to host cons, but I don't think anyone wants to have to finish their shift (for staff) or general con experience late into the morning, then have to walk another 5 blocks just to get back to con.  At EVO in Vegas, convention started at 9 and ended early in the morning and I dreaded the walk back to my hotel...which was just across the street.  Now imagine having people who are drunk or extremely tired and have them walk back to their hotel.  

So I've been looking at the floor plans for both the Hilton and the OCC, and this is what I'm seeing.  (And this is also preventing me from finishing pictures lol)

But first off, this is what I think could be done with the Lobbys and everything

Floor 1)

Exhibit Hall E - Use them as the dealer area. size is 180'x340'  There is also a loading dock and freight elevator near there which would be great for vendors

Exhibit Hall A - Use that one for live events.  its 170' by 170' where the Pavilion area at the Hilton is 84x84


Lobby C OR The D129-132 block, Registration/Yoji Block.  Its right in the center of the convention Center and would make easy access to find.  

Lobby A) Gaming (Tabletop, RPG and Consoles) Its near the bathrooms and there is a large area/block of things

Lobby B, C, D and E can all be like...younger than 18 panels and viewing rooms, a cosplay dressing area (like if someone didn't want to walk back to their hotel in a cosplay outfit) and perhaps there can be a check area for like bags or whatever in meeting rooms F, even though that would require more staff

There is also a second floor, and it looks like there are elevators near the stairs...soo...The second floor could be like the over 18 area.  Like the portland ballroom is where it could be like a sleeping area for yojis and staff, or somewhere for there to be things like the chaos draft or something like that.  

The oregon ballroom can be where the 18 and over panels and viewing area is. and admin and catering offices is where the politics and everything can be

Also, onsite parking+internet = win

All in all I think the most difficult part is probably whats preventing me in getting my arcade stick building thing from starting up, and that is money.  I don't know how much the con costs, but I think its more of a money issue than anything.  

[Kimiski]

All of you guys who are looking more into this are amazing

[Rathany]

I would agree about the convention center, because this years con was huge, and as I heard, on Saturday, they couldn't accept anyone else in, including people who Pre-Redged, and they had to refund the pre redged people.

This never happened.  Only post-registration was closed, and then only for the day.  No pre-regged people were turned away and no refunds were given.  

Thanks for letting us know about the rumour, though.  The more rumours we are aware of the more we can get the correct information out there

[DancingTofu]

I did some research, and it turns out that the OCC really is the only way to go bigger, and it's a lot bigger.  You're maybe wondering how big?

1. 25% more event space than Sakuracon.
2. it's all on two floors, meaning less escalators, and the hallways are beautifully wide and spacious.

It is cited as the LARGEST EVENT SPACE IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST.  It is BIG.  The expo center is about half as big.  Again, it's bigger than the biggest venue in Washington; the one that hosts PAX, and I'll leave it to you to check out their ridiculous numbers.

Now, I think one thing people are neglecting to consider is that we will experience a huge burst when we make that jump (I say when because we will either cut ourselves off where we stand, or we will move there.  There is no middle ground within 100 miles unless you count the expo center, which we couldn't work with because it's made for expositions.  The next best space is in bend, with a 35k grand ballroom and 10k more total square footage of event space than our current hotel, but 200 less rooms.).  And by huge burst, I mean huge.  Can I throw out an accurate figure?  Not really, but I can honestly say I'd personally expect the con to double in size.

[Rathany]

I did some research, and it turns out that the OCC really is the only way to go bigger, and it's a lot bigger.  You're maybe wondering how big?

1. 25% more event space than Sakuracon.
2. it's all on two floors, meaning less escalators, and the hallways are beautifully wide and spacious.

It is cited as the LARGEST EVENT SPACE IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST.  It is BIG.  The expo center is about half as big.  Again, it's bigger than the biggest venue in Washington; the one that hosts PAX, and I'll leave it to you to check out their ridiculous numbers.

Now, I think one thing people are neglecting to consider is that we will experience a huge burst when we make that jump (I say when because we will either cut ourselves off where we stand, or we will move there.  There is no middle ground within 100 miles unless you count the expo center, which we couldn't work with because it's made for expositions.  The next best space is in bend, with a 35k grand ballroom and 10k more total square footage of event space than our current hotel, but 200 less rooms.)

I am just not confident on this attendance jump.  We'd have cosplayers with no option but to have to wear outfits outside. 

And, quite frankly, from what I hear most of our staff don't want to staff a huge convention.  We already have Sak.  We <3 Sak, but we don't want to be them.  Having the two major anime cons in the Pac. NW of the US be different benefits everyone.  If any of our staff want to work on a giant convention at a convention center, they go up and work on Sak as well as Kcon. 

Based on the fact that hotel contract info must remain private, I don't know whether or not we can disclose what quotes we have from the convention center, but I can tell you that they are very, very high.  I am not kidding about gutting out budget.

Also, we cannot count on an attendence leap.  We can't spend money betting on making it back. 

We have gotten some data that shows that we might already be hitting saturation on our target audience.  We don't really draw people from more than 3 hours away.  We're not Sak or Otakon who draw from all over the country, and then some. 

To have that kind of draw we'd have to start becoming a more heavily industry-focused con, and heck, if I want to work industry con I'll become a formal staffer down at Comic Con in San Diego instead of just pitching in here or there  

[Kimiski]

So we're not Oregons Biggest Anime Convention?
We're Portland/Salems/Eugenes Anime convention?

I didn't know Kumoricon didn't want people to come, just to keep it a smaller convention. The con doesn't have to pitch to people across the U.S just to get thousdands of more people. Either Kumoricon is going to get bigger and we're going to have to move to a bigger venue, or staff can keep turning people away, and keep it a small crowded con which will turn people off like and have them not want to come back, like I've read about so many times in the thread about people not coming back for 2010 because of the hilton.

[Manganix78]

I did some research, and it turns out that the OCC really is the only way to go bigger, and it's a lot bigger.  You're maybe wondering how big?

1. 25% more event space than Sakuracon.
2. it's all on two floors, meaning less escalators, and the hallways are beautifully wide and spacious.

It is cited as the LARGEST EVENT SPACE IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST.  It is BIG.  The expo center is about half as big.  Again, it's bigger than the biggest venue in Washington; the one that hosts PAX, and I'll leave it to you to check out their ridiculous numbers.

Now, I think one thing people are neglecting to consider is that we will experience a huge burst when we make that jump (I say when because we will either cut ourselves off where we stand, or we will move there.  There is no middle ground within 100 miles unless you count the expo center, which we couldn't work with because it's made for expositions.  The next best space is in bend, with a 35k grand ballroom and 10k more total square footage of event space than our current hotel, but 200 less rooms.).  And by huge burst, I mean huge.  Can I throw out an accurate figure?  Not really, but I can honestly say I'd personally expect the con to double in size.

Let's hope you can do that soon, cuz unless something positive comes out of this probable location move, we're gonna lose maybe more than half our regular attendees for next year if we decide to use the Portland Hilton for next year's con...... 

[Kimiski]

I did some research, and it turns out that the OCC really is the only way to go bigger, and it's a lot bigger.  You're maybe wondering how big?

1. 25% more event space than Sakuracon.
2. it's all on two floors, meaning less escalators, and the hallways are beautifully wide and spacious.

It is cited as the LARGEST EVENT SPACE IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST.  It is BIG.  The expo center is about half as big.  Again, it's bigger than the biggest venue in Washington; the one that hosts PAX, and I'll leave it to you to check out their ridiculous numbers.

Now, I think one thing people are neglecting to consider is that we will experience a huge burst when we make that jump (I say when because we will either cut ourselves off where we stand, or we will move there.  There is no middle ground within 100 miles unless you count the expo center, which we couldn't work with because it's made for expositions.  The next best space is in bend, with a 35k grand ballroom and 10k more total square footage of event space than our current hotel, but 200 less rooms.).  And by huge burst, I mean huge.  Can I throw out an accurate figure?  Not really, but I can honestly say I'd personally expect the con to double in size.

Let's hope you can do that soon, cuz unless something positive comes out of this probable location move, we're gonna lose maybe more than half our regular attendees for next year if we decide to use the Portland Hilton for next year's con......  

Which won't help with statistics for a bigger venue at all....  

If this were to happen for 2011, staff would seriously have to be looking into it already, now though. So I know it's not possible for then. 2012 would be the absolute earliest this could take place if staff got convinved somehow by the end of next con.

[Slash5150]

So we're not Oregons Biggest Anime Convention?
We're Portland/Salems/Eugenes Anime convention?

I didn't know Kumoricon didn't want people to come, just to keep it a smaller convention. The con doesn't have to pitch to people across the U.S just to get thousdands of more people. Either Kumoricon is going to get bigger and we're going to have to move to a bigger venue, or staff can keep turning people away, and keep it a small crowded con which will turn people off like and have them not want to come back, like I've read about so many times in the thread about people not coming back for 2010 because of the hilton.

Basically K-Con is between a rock and a hard place right now.  

The Hilton -- Not enough space, I'd assume good price

OCC -- TOOOOOOO Much space, way too expensive.

I mean, really the only way stuff can change is if tons of people come and start coming to Kumoricon, and also, if we do become a bit industrialized, that means PAX might be willing to work with us a bit, as well as there would be a stronger financial backing and more vendors would come.

I think the best example to give is from where I come from, a gamer.

In 2005, an event called devastation started in Arizona.  The runner of Devastation, JEDIRob, started it in his house or garage and only had 100 people.  This year was Devastations 5th year running, it had over 160 thousand people.  There is a bit of industrialization like Best Buy offering raffle prizes as well as Arcade-In-A-Box having items for sale as well like in a vendors hall.

IF you want Kumoricon to be bigger and more powerful, then you will definitely need to recruit staffoteers to help with Kumoricon.  This is just something i want to put out as well, being staff is fun and all and the reason I do it is because I read in 1's and 0's and I eat RAM modules for breakfast (not literally of course) and my goal in anything I do is that I want the gaming community to be bigger and better, and if I have to stay up for 36 hours straight to do that, I will.  I will return to K-con and that is IF and only IF I am photo staff next year as I will also probably help TJ out with gaming as well, and If pax is at a different date, I will definitely be back next year, simple as that, but for other people/potential staff, the best way to get them to join, and this sounds really shallow and cheap, but is to offer some kind of incentive.

The best thing I could think?  Give non-photography staff/yoji's priority access or seating to one or two events they want to go to most be it the concert to the cosplay fashion show.  Sure getting into con free and getting to pay a cheaper price for a hotel is nice, but you have to remember that the staff members are sacrificing so much more.  And DON'T tell me you can't do it because it just makes for a few more people in an event, its not like you are losing money.  It will get more people to want to be staff, incentives work.  

EDIT

also,just going based off what you can see on the Kumoricon site itself and prices, if you base it off of what you see there and a rough attendance of K-con at 6000 (I know thats small) you're looking at a total of 280,000 dollars, assuming all attendees purchased 3 day passes and this doesn't even include VIP's which if it did we could call it 290K.

Now take that 290K and factor in Renting out ALL CONFERENCE ROOMS IN THE HILTON, Renting out Con suite as well as the entire 23rd floor suite, paying the big name guests, bands that performed, DJ's as well as the hotel, and it would be safe to assume that there isn't all that money left.  I don't really know.

Really the best things that could be done is get hardcore street teams to go into Centrallia, Tacoma, Couve, Salem, Eugene, Corvallis, just everywhere to get the name out there. I'll be sending publicity the ad card for my schools paper (Chemeketa) (once I find out how much I get off commish from ad selling since I know its there) and that could definitely help with advertising. 

But I want to know, if there is a way we can prove to the hilton that having the con at their hotel is too dangerous for staff and attendees, I.E. security forcing someone to nearly wet their pants before they would let them go (in which turn I'd have assaulted the officer, no joke), to the elevators being down and being a hazard to disabled people, if they would let out out of contract.

[Kimiski]

I really do want to become staff someday, especially if they start considering this place.

I've thought of helping out before, but living in salem I have no way to general meetings. Plus I still want the freedoms to roam around and attend events like an atendee, but as I attend more and more, 2010 will be my 7th con, I'm getting more the the point where staff doesn't seem so bad. By 2011/2012 I should be living in Portland for school. Then I could help out.

I was wondering if there could be something like part-time staffers/volunteers for the con? Would it be more helpful or more hectic, staff keeping track of them and what not? Actually might be less helpful, but like me, people who don't want to work during the con yet, but could help out the days before and the days after? I asked if I could help out cleaning out after the con, and didn't get a reply before I set out for it. I would also be willing to help out on day 0 after registering. Putting up signs, making signs, help stuffing bags, etc.

[DancingTofu]

Such volunteers have been incredibly HELPFUL in some positions and incredibly DESTRUCTIVE in others.  We do have them though, and we do love them.  I was a volunteer in gaming in 2007 before becoming staff.  Basically, I ran the DDR tournament and helped Mark with a few trivial details when they came up.  I then essentially did the same thing at Sakuracon 2008, then moved up to full-on staff by Kumoricon 2008.

As an example, volunteers are really helpful in gaming for helping to run tournaments.  For DDR last year, I had a volunteer to manage the bracket, and she was incredibly helpful.  I then called upon two volunteers to help judge for Rock Band.  This year, I ran two of my tournaments alone for the most part, and it was terrible.  I wasn't able to give my full attention to either of those tournaments, and I think they were both less enjoyable because of it.  I was too distracted by the numbers.  Granted, I was the main number-cruncher for RB2 as well, but I had nice long breaks between such number-crunching sessions.

[Slash5150]

I did some research, and it turns out that the OCC really is the only way to go bigger, and it's a lot bigger.  You're maybe wondering how big?

1. 25% more event space than Sakuracon.
2. it's all on two floors, meaning less escalators, and the hallways are beautifully wide and spacious.

It is cited as the LARGEST EVENT SPACE IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST.  It is BIG.  The expo center is about half as big.  Again, it's bigger than the biggest venue in Washington; the one that hosts PAX, and I'll leave it to you to check out their ridiculous numbers.

Now, I think one thing people are neglecting to consider is that we will experience a huge burst when we make that jump (I say when because we will either cut ourselves off where we stand, or we will move there.  There is no middle ground within 100 miles unless you count the expo center, which we couldn't work with because it's made for expositions.  The next best space is in bend, with a 35k grand ballroom and 10k more total square footage of event space than our current hotel, but 200 less rooms.)

I am just not confident on this attendance jump.  We'd have cosplayers with no option but to have to wear outfits outside. 

And, quite frankly, from what I hear most of our staff don't want to staff a huge convention.  We already have Sak.  We <3 Sak, but we don't want to be them.  Having the two major anime cons in the Pac. NW of the US be different benefits everyone.  If any of our staff want to work on a giant convention at a convention center, they go up and work on Sak as well as Kcon. 

Based on the fact that hotel contract info must remain private, I don't know whether or not we can disclose what quotes we have from the convention center, but I can tell you that they are very, very high.  I am not kidding about gutting out budget.

Also, we cannot count on an attendence leap.  We can't spend money betting on making it back. 

We have gotten some data that shows that we might already be hitting saturation on our target audience.  We don't really draw people from more than 3 hours away.  We're not Sak or Otakon who draw from all over the country, and then some. 

To have that kind of draw we'd have to start becoming a more heavily industry-focused con, and heck, if I want to work industry con I'll become a formal staffer down at Comic Con in San Diego instead of just pitching in here or there  

Okay, this post SERIOUSLY sent me into nerd rage.

Yes, there is Sakura con in the NW, but you are honestly telling me, if K-con could grow to that size (which it could) you are telling me you don't want it.  If staff doesn't want to work on a bigger, more grand stage of con, then thats just crazy!  How can you tell me that you wouldn't want to work at something huge and say I was a part of it and I met this person?  I mean seriously.  Its like saying "I like my small business...and its growing, but ya know...I don't want it to get big, because if I wanted that, I would just go work at the big store across town, so I'll just shy away new customers."

If the con gets bigger and some nice incentives are given like a meet and greet for Staff, VIP's and Vendors and big name guests, I guaran-damn-tee that there will be a ton of people interested in staff.  I do what I do because I love it.  Gaming isn't a hobby for me, its what I do.  The second I spent 500 dollars to go to EVO in vegas and get GGPO'd in less than 30 minutes, it because what I do, and I haven't regretted my decision yet.  I joined staff because I want to help con grow, I would have helped last year, but having a horrible break up with my ex, along with a grandparent dying prevented that, otherwise I'm pretty sure this grand slew of ideas would have come last year.  I've been up for like...15 hours, so now I'm going to sleep for say...9 hours and then get back up.  GGPO ya'll (good games, peace out)

[CMD Productions]

Marriott's capacity is rather small. we were there a few years back and using half the space our cap was 1000. (it really sucked having to be the one turning people away)

Agreed, waterfront marriott is really too small for us.  There was similar bottleneck problems to this hotel only that was when we had 1200 people rather than 4500. I'd love to go back to the Doubletree myself.  They had that sexy rear projection set up for main stage and were my favorite hotel to work with.

[DancingTofu]

Cosplayers with no options than to wear outfits outside seems like a really week excuse for rejecting much of anything.  Cosplayers almost always wear their costumes outside.  None of them get to the hotel without being outside, so it's not even a realistic, preventable concern.  Cosplayers will have to transport their cosplays from hotel to vehicle and vice-versa even in the most optimal of situations.  

I understand that money is the issue, but people need to stop pretending that it's not the only issue, because it is.  

The location is optimal, there are nearly 1300 rooms in hotels just within a 10-block radius, there are no plans to kill fareless square for MAX, at least not within the next two years, $2 is an arbitrary cost for almost any congoer, particularly one who's paying for a hotel. (btw, I biked 8 miles two and from my house this con and worked 60 hours.  I'm really not going to sympathize with someone who can't muster the energy to walk 3 or 4 blocks to their comfy 2-bed hotel room working half that shift, or not even working; just attending the con)

As for data suggesting saturation, this is so far from true it's laughable.  I know for a fact that we are nowhere near saturation.  We can do so much to expand our programming and improve our publicity, saturation is hardly even a possibility.  Saying we're near saturation would be like spitting on a napkin and saying it's saturated.  We haven't even started to become immersed in our community.  Kumoricon is a convention which draws attendance from the entire Pacific Northwest.  At best, we've saturated our attendance from PSU.  We're like a tree growing in a flower pot, and our roots are bursting out of that pot, because we AREN'T a Banzai.  We aren't a shrub.  WE'RE A FREAKING TREE.  We need to dig our roots into the ground and allow ourselves to grow to our natural size.  Limiting Kumoricon's growth intentionally is an insult and a blow to the community that I volunteer to serve, and if the board takes up the official position that Kumoricon will lose some arbitrary value by becoming larger and more industrialized, then I'm done here.  If you want to have a private party, I'm not going to volunteer hundreds of hours of my time to make it happen.  I'm here to make a fun, hypersocial, enjoyable event happen for as many people as possible.

[Slash5150]

im not going totake a single staff's posting as the view of the entire board, but Tofu said it the best.  If kcon has this super big desire to be a great con in portland and then decide to become a private party because wanting to grow is bad, then Im willing to Take my ideas and bail, because im not going to be involved with something that has the thought of growth and getting big companies THAT HAVE MONEY to come in and have their name involved in the con, then thats pure idiocy just because something smaller is nicer. Less is more in some cases, this is not the case.  More is more.

If i did leave, The only thing that would probably get me to come back is a) there could be a high demand from people wanting me to come back with my camera and do photoshoots fyi i dont need a park to rock some sick photos, and b) the rikku/yuna/paine group returns because i seriously wanna spend some more time with those lovely ladies :-D

[AllyKat]

I am just not confident on this attendance jump.  We'd have cosplayers with no option but to have to wear outfits outside. 

And, quite frankly, from what I hear most of our staff don't want to staff a huge convention.  We already have Sak.  We <3 Sak, but we don't want to be them.  Having the two major anime cons in the Pac. NW of the US be different benefits everyone.  If any of our staff want to work on a giant convention at a convention center, they go up and work on Sak as well as Kcon. 

Based on the fact that hotel contract info must remain private, I don't know whether or not we can disclose what quotes we have from the convention center, but I can tell you that they are very, very high.  I am not kidding about gutting out budget.

Also, we cannot count on an attendence leap.  We can't spend money betting on making it back. 

We have gotten some data that shows that we might already be hitting saturation on our target audience.  We don't really draw people from more than 3 hours away.  We're not Sak or Otakon who draw from all over the country, and then some. 

To have that kind of draw we'd have to start becoming a more heavily industry-focused con, and heck, if I want to work industry con I'll become a formal staffer down at Comic Con in San Diego instead of just pitching in here or there  

Well, to be honest, if board members such as yourself feel this way (and I'm not saying all do)
Then we really have no choice but to conceed to the fact that this con just wont get that
big. I'd bank on a Registration cap of 5,000 people or so, meaning no at-door reg (which may
be fine I suppose...) and a serious lack in expanded entertainment.

If the main players in the assembly of this convention DO NOT WANT it to grow beyond a hotel
convention, even a large 5k hotel convention, we have to respect that until new chair possitions
are appointed and the cycle of government allows for re-configuration of the Convention membership
and operations. We cannot argue with those who allocate the money. All we can simply say is;

Please do not make this convention your personal convention. If you feel this convention
is never going to increase in size, or if you feel that it SHOULD never increase in size, likewise if
you want it to remain a small hotel convention, I have to point out that it is not really up to you.
Kumori-con is a convention by the fans for the fans, which means that what you as staff do is
decided upon based on the interest and desires of those con-goers who pay money to become
members of a organization that caters to the Anime/Japanese culture enthusiasts of the Oregon/
Northwestern area. To be frank, oregon doesn't have a convention of this stature and acclaim
other than Kumori-con, and the parents of minors and the impoverished masses of our college
campuses are not going to trek up to hoity toity Seattle just to go to a convention in WA, when
they've heard so many good things about K-con. As a convention, it filled a lacking need in Oregon
for a premier Anime Mecca. You cannot pull that rug out from under 5,000 + people and expect
them to understand that all you wanted was a little local con for the die hard fans. Kumori-con
was first to make that leap in Oregon and it most likely wont be challenged soon enough to allow
it to bow out gracefully as a small convention. It will remain Oregon's Anime Convention and we
cannot ignore that. No amount of reluctance to admit to the size and demand will change that.

If you want to work a smaller convention, find one that is smaller, unfortunately
for your personal tastes, no convention ever really stays small (at least not with such amazing
PR teams and demand as we have!) forever so it will be tough to fall in love with a convention only
to have it grow to a size you don't feel comfortable in. Kumori-con is bar none the biggest in Oregon
and probably 2nd biggest Anime Convention specifically in the Northwest. We fill a niche that we
can't really un-fill. So when you look at it that way, what more option do we have? Limit registration?
Rent out the OCC? Clearly it's going to cost us majorly to do so, but we still have 1 year before
that can actually be realized. We obviously have to wait to see how long it takes the con to max
out registration for a convention at the Hilton next year. I think, with the way things are currently,
negating any conflicting impact of the issues we had this year, the attendance will increase as
projected, moving us close enough for concern to the 10,000 mark to give sincere thought to booking
a extremely larger, and much more expensive venue.

The controversial topic here is; to mainstream or not mainstream? I think this lacks insight and
creativity personally. The more people you get in the con, the more options you have for interesting
non industry panels along side your corporate panel options. Instead of craming everything together
in 1 day you have 6-7 large skit panels each day 3 of which could be Things like Anime Hunters and
BangBangNeko and/or Random Panel that repeat each day (with different stuff of course) and  then
extra guest panels that change each day. Then you have a specified Industry makers panel and its
connected "how to do this" panels like the dark horse one and it's many incarnations. Finally you can
mix in all the awesome panels that made Kumori-con so fun to me... the Improv panels, the home-made
fan panels, the discussions and game-show type panels and the art and gaming panels... plus the
dance lessons! It was all awesome... think all of what we had this year... plus like, 5-10 more panels
each day... tons of options! YAY!

Okay... once again, took me too long to post (well... now I am at work trying to check people out
in between bursts of thought and rant) So... hope that all made sense!