Gun rules

[kiliarara]

So we wanted to bring a Shotgun to kumoricon, but we heard that you guys have changed the rules on that.
Even if we disable the gun, like take out the trigger, can we still not bring it??

[xxxchihiroxxx]

im pretty sure you cant o.o im not on staff or anything but as far as i know no guns except toy ones with that shiny orange cap on em....

not sure what time of air guns but yeah... im pretty sure they wont let that fly ._. sorry

[makichan]

If it's real, I'm pretty sure it's still a no. Sorry 

[kiliarara]

thats what I feared, thanks

[kiliarara]

Whats the rules on airsoft guns? Does anyone know??

[xxxchihiroxxx]

im pretty sure those are a no to o.o ill check

[xxxchihiroxxx]

no airsoft sorry D:

The staff will determine if your prop is acceptable within the Convention Space4. Props which are not allowed within the convention space include, but are not limited to:

Air-soft or projectile weapons
Live (sharp enough to cut) steel
Props wide enough or long enough to inhibit flow of traffic

[kiliarara]

damn okay, thanks for letting me know ^_^

[xxxchihiroxxx]

no prob ^^

[Hawkeye]

So we wanted to bring a Shotgun to kumoricon, but we heard that you guys have changed the rules on that.
Even if we disable the gun, like take out the trigger, can we still not bring it??

We do not under any circumstances allow real guns at any time in this convention.  We have never allowed them to my knowledge.

[Pezzer]

go to like a freddies and pick up one of there many toy guns. they are slightly smaller then the normal type and come with a life savinf orange tip at the end of the barrel. and are under 20 bucks. 

[XFD]

Yeah they basically forbid anything gun-like that could scare people that like to hide under rocks.

I'm not actually sure what it's supposed to do really. Even people with CHLs aren't allowed. <shrug> I'd still be curious what would happen if someone machined an 80% replica of the (Hellsing) .454 Casull without a trigger group or working slide; in essence a realistic prop-gun.

I'd really like to see a Yoko running around with an M82A1

[kyletothejones]

I suggest bringing slug ammo if you do it. Got to make sure they stay down!

In all seriousness though, you could easily make a prop shotgun out of some pvc pipe, buy a nice wooden stock at a gunstore, and make a pump for it.

[Negima]

I know it's already been established but I thought I should add something else.
I think one of the other rules (or at least an unspoken rule) is if someone can't tell if it's real or not from a distance, then don't bring it.  The last thing you want is police approaching you because they think you might be holding a real gun.

[XFD]

I know it's already been established but I thought I should add something else.
I think one of the other rules (or at least an unspoken rule) is if someone can't tell if it's real or not from a distance, then don't bring it.  The last thing you want is police approaching you because they think you might be holding a real gun.

Barring cosplay shots, I can't think of many situations where you wouldn't have the 'firearm' holstered. Open carry is legal in this awesome state

Edit: Additionally, doing otherwise with a firearm (real or not) shows the possessor has terrible form in the safe-handling department (always treat a firearm as if it's loaded, don't point it at anything you don't want to shoot, etc)

[misamisa]

Okay, so I bought a bright green plastic toy gun from the Dollar Tree-- totally plastic, totally fake-- but I spray painted it black so it wouldn't look ridiculous.  The tip of the toy gun was orange, but now the orange only shows on the very end.  Should I remove the paint from the rest of the orange tip so it's more visible?  I know it'll be peace-tied as well, so I thought with the orange end & peace-tie it might be okay.

[kylite]

the full front orange tip must be exposed.

[DancingTofu]

They have to be filled with cement too, don't they?

[EveofAbyss]

I think that was only in reference to airsoft guns.

[misamisa]

the full front orange tip must be exposed.

Thank you for your quick response!
I'll modify that for sure! 

[kylite]

thank u. Sorry we have to be so strict about all this but When out a the park, police freak if they see a weapon, regardless of make/model so the easier it is to recognize it as a fake the better. Same goes for inside the hotel with the hotel staff and parents who are not accustomed to seeing ... props

[kyletothejones]

Barring cosplay shots, I can't think of many situations where you wouldn't have the 'firearm' holstered. Open carry is legal in this awesome state

Edit: Additionally, doing otherwise with a firearm (real or not) shows the possessor has terrible form in the safe-handling department (always treat a firearm as if it's loaded, don't point it at anything you don't want to shoot, etc)

It may be legal, but that doesn't mean that Oregon cops won't harass or detain you. Open carrying a firearm around is still not a smooth idea.

[XFD]

Barring cosplay shots, I can't think of many situations where you wouldn't have the 'firearm' holstered. Open carry is legal in this awesome state

Edit: Additionally, doing otherwise with a firearm (real or not) shows the possessor has terrible form in the safe-handling department (always treat a firearm as if it's loaded, don't point it at anything you don't want to shoot, etc)

It may be legal, but that doesn't mean that Oregon cops won't harass or detain you. Open carrying a firearm around is still not a smooth idea.

Detain for investigation is fine, the limit considered acceptable is 15 minutes of a person's time. They can try to make an arrest and that would open up a huge can of worms for the City as State law trumps City ordinance. In either case, I find the paranoia fascinating.

[DancingTofu]

police freak if they see a weapon, regardless of make/model so the easier it is to recognize it as a fake the better.

Especially in the Lloyd District where they actually have shootings/stabbings rather frequently. (probably because all the police are on patrol on 82nd now so they can't keep order in the rest of town lol)

[MistressLegato]

Barring cosplay shots, I can't think of many situations where you wouldn't have the 'firearm' holstered. Open carry is legal in this awesome state

Edit: Additionally, doing otherwise with a firearm (real or not) shows the possessor has terrible form in the safe-handling department (always treat a firearm as if it's loaded, don't point it at anything you don't want to shoot, etc)

It may be legal, but that doesn't mean that Oregon cops won't harass or detain you. Open carrying a firearm around is still not a smooth idea.

Detain for investigation is fine, the limit considered acceptable is 15 minutes of a person's time. They can try to make an arrest and that would open up a huge can of worms for the City as State law trumps City ordinance. In either case, I find the paranoia fascinating.

Making really terrible decisions like telling a cop how legal or illegal it is for holding you up for carrying something that APPEARS to be a deadly weapon is just about the stupidest thing you could probably do. 

Please don't make the rest of the con look bad by giving congoers the wrong idea about our gun policy vs. what is generally legal.

It's not really paranoia to not want to get shot by the Portland police who have a great record of shooting people . . .

[Griff_the_dragoon]

police freak if they see a weapon, regardless of make/model so the easier it is to recognize it as a fake the better.

Especially in the Lloyd District where they actually have shootings/stabbings rather frequently. (probably because all the police are on patrol on 82nd now so they can't keep order in the rest of town lol)

0-o really... good thing i know some selfdefence

[DancingTofu]

police freak if they see a weapon, regardless of make/model so the easier it is to recognize it as a fake the better.

Especially in the Lloyd District where they actually have shootings/stabbings rather frequently. (probably because all the police are on patrol on 82nd now so they can't keep order in the rest of town lol)

0-o really... good thing i know some selfdefence

There should be enough activity there this weekend to discourage any gang presence, but the cops are still going to look at any realistic looking weapons as a very serious threat to their safety and the safety of others around them, so our gun policy is something that's very important to follow.

[XFD]

Making really terrible decisions like telling a cop how legal or illegal it is for holding you up for carrying something that APPEARS to be a deadly weapon is just about the stupidest thing you could probably do. 

Please don't make the rest of the con look bad by giving congoers the wrong idea about our gun policy vs. what is generally legal.

It's not really paranoia to not want to get shot by the Portland police who have a great record of shooting people . . .

1. A holstered firearm isn't a threat unless you make a move towards it. It's a pretty big duh, regardless of the conditions, to mouth off to an officer. When asked previously, I thanked them for their concern and that it was noted. Of all the instances of being questioned by police, I have never heard of anyone who is within the law (CHL or know the rules) have issues with the Portland Police. I guess education on procedure and law trumps ignorance.

2. The con being a private operation, operating in private facilities can pretty much do anything they want so long as it isn't illegal. So they could say no green shirts and be just fine. I said I'm curious about the decision, not saber-rattlingly upset about it. I'm not sure how this is telling con-goers "go loaded to bare." Most cons banned the Yaoi paddles because people were being dumb with them, same goes for other things and it's starting to leak into the glomping thing. Someone (or several people) sat down somewhere and came up with the rules, trying to figure out how to make them clear and effective. The only thing I'd like to know from that meeting is the prohibition of CHL owners because that's the only item I can't really associate to the paddles, swords, etc.

3. It isn't paranoid about worrying that you might be shot by police over a possible situation that has a low chance of occurrence?

Anywho, past this it gets to politics which is pretty boring.

[kylite]

Honestly all I can say is ... if a weapon has a limit/ban on it, chances are in the past we or other conventions similar to ours have had problems with them and thus the limit/ban. I am sorry if this makes things hard on the cosplay props community but that's the way it is. Please let the subject drop.

[kyletothejones]

Detain for investigation is fine, the limit considered acceptable is 15 minutes of a person's time. They can try to make an arrest and that would open up a huge can of worms for the City as State law trumps City ordinance. In either case, I find the paranoia fascinating.

You know, the last time I remember checking the police are within their rights to detain a subject for 24 hours without pressing charges. For those of who you think that swords are cool to carry around, last scon I saw a kid get a big fat fine from Seattle Metro for walking around with his naginata.

Carrying a firearm, conceal or open, is your right as a citizen but please don't be stupid and think the police aren't within their right to detain you.

[MistressLegato]

Making really terrible decisions like telling a cop how legal or illegal it is for holding you up for carrying something that APPEARS to be a deadly weapon is just about the stupidest thing you could probably do. 

Please don't make the rest of the con look bad by giving congoers the wrong idea about our gun policy vs. what is generally legal.

It's not really paranoia to not want to get shot by the Portland police who have a great record of shooting people . . .

1. A holstered firearm isn't a threat unless you make a move towards it. It's a pretty big duh, regardless of the conditions, to mouth off to an officer. When asked previously, I thanked them for their concern and that it was noted. Of all the instances of being questioned by police, I have never heard of anyone who is within the law (CHL or know the rules) have issues with the Portland Police. I guess education on procedure and law trumps ignorance.

2. The con being a private operation, operating in private facilities can pretty much do anything they want so long as it isn't illegal. So they could say no green shirts and be just fine. I said I'm curious about the decision, not saber-rattlingly upset about it. I'm not sure how this is telling con-goers "go loaded to bare." Most cons banned the Yaoi paddles because people were being dumb with them, same goes for other things and it's starting to leak into the glomping thing. Someone (or several people) sat down somewhere and came up with the rules, trying to figure out how to make them clear and effective. The only thing I'd like to know from that meeting is the prohibition of CHL owners because that's the only item I can't really associate to the paddles, swords, etc.

3. It isn't paranoid about worrying that you might be shot by police over a possible situation that has a low chance of occurrence?

Anywho, past this it gets to politics which is pretty boring.

LEGALLY, you are required to have a concealed weapons license to carry around a firearm and it is a FACT that the Portland police shoot people far more often than many other PDs in this country.

Wave around your rights, but don't bring guns to the con, or influence others to do so.

Kthnx

[Trumby]

Making really terrible decisions like telling a cop how legal or illegal it is for holding you up for carrying something that APPEARS to be a deadly weapon is just about the stupidest thing you could probably do. 

Please don't make the rest of the con look bad by giving congoers the wrong idea about our gun policy vs. what is generally legal.

It's not really paranoia to not want to get shot by the Portland police who have a great record of shooting people . . .

1. A holstered firearm isn't a threat unless you make a move towards it. It's a pretty big duh, regardless of the conditions, to mouth off to an officer. When asked previously, I thanked them for their concern and that it was noted. Of all the instances of being questioned by police, I have never heard of anyone who is within the law (CHL or know the rules) have issues with the Portland Police. I guess education on procedure and law trumps ignorance.

2. The con being a private operation, operating in private facilities can pretty much do anything they want so long as it isn't illegal. So they could say no green shirts and be just fine. I said I'm curious about the decision, not saber-rattlingly upset about it. I'm not sure how this is telling con-goers "go loaded to bare." Most cons banned the Yaoi paddles because people were being dumb with them, same goes for other things and it's starting to leak into the glomping thing. Someone (or several people) sat down somewhere and came up with the rules, trying to figure out how to make them clear and effective. The only thing I'd like to know from that meeting is the prohibition of CHL owners because that's the only item I can't really associate to the paddles, swords, etc.

3. It isn't paranoid about worrying that you might be shot by police over a possible situation that has a low chance of occurrence?

Anywho, past this it gets to politics which is pretty boring.

LEGALLY, you are required to have a concealed weapons license to carry around a firearm and it is a FACT that the Portland police shoot people far more often than many other PDs in this country.

Wave around your rights, but don't bring guns to the con, or influence others to do so.

Kthnx

While I don't condone what he is saying, he is actually right. In Oregon you can carry a handgun (not sure about rifles) in the open (like holstered to your belt/hip like a cop) without a chl. Though if it is concealed, that is a different story. Plus the weapon has to be registered to you. At least in public. Private property, such as a hotel, can tell you whether you can carry it or not. Same thing with private events. Not sure why this is even being discussed here..

[kylite]

as I said before. this discussion is OVER. end of story.

Any new questions are welcome.

[XFD]

New question, similar topic: do the mods know who I would talk to (staff wise) who I could ask about some design rules/constraints for the gun props? In discussing with a few different people there might be some value in making "con-legal" replica props (Gurren Lagan Yoko cosplays for example) which are made from the ground up to abide by established rules & regs. An off-the-self solution so to speak. I went looking on the policies document but did not find criteria or outlining the peace-bonding team's criteria nor contact information for the staff who control the regs.

[Charlatan]

Okay, so if airsoft guns are flat-out banned...I coulda sworn that some people (like the 'zombie-hunter' squad---no, not the guy dressed up as a Resident Evil Umbrella soldier, these guys were just dressed up in plain SWAT/army gear) were toting airsoft guns. I'm talking full kit here, not just the Team Fortress 2 Demoman who used an airsoft stock on a homemade, nonfunctional prop grenade launcher.

Did the staff just accidentally overlook these guys, or is the airsoft rule prone to exceptions as long as one goes through an extensive checking process?

(Random note: I was going to get into airsoft myself as a hobby, but it gets expensive, I'm a pacifist who doesn't like HOORAH GET SOME machismo fetishism and I have no desire to get thoroughly lit up by the Combine Metro Cops Portland police.)

[XFD]

Tangentially related, did you see the exhibitor who was selling japanese airsoft guns? Man he had some pretty nasty notes on his table   

(Random note: I was going to get into airsoft myself as a hobby, but it gets expensive, I'm a pacifist who doesn't like HOORAH GET SOME machismo fetishism and I have no desire to get thoroughly lit up by the Combine Metro Cops Portland police.)

If I can help to disspell some of the paranoia and fear, would you like me to see if I can invite you for a day at my local club during one of the Law Enforcement days? You could talk to police from the 3 area counties and find out that they're not all former military rejects with blood lust.

[Charlatan]

Tangentially related, did you see the exhibitor who was selling japanese airsoft guns? Man he had some pretty nasty notes on his table   

(Random note: I was going to get into airsoft myself as a hobby, but it gets expensive, I'm a pacifist who doesn't like HOORAH GET SOME machismo fetishism and I have no desire to get thoroughly lit up by the Combine Metro Cops Portland police.)

If I can help to disspell some of the paranoia and fear, would you like me to see if I can invite you for a day at my local club during one of the Law Enforcement days? You could talk to police from the 3 area counties and find out that they're not all former military rejects with blood lust.

Provided you can have someone transport me (we can negotiate me paying gas), it might be doable. Might. Hafta talk with dad about getting there. PM me and I'll give you my email and cell phone number.

Much appreciation for the offer! I wasn't saying all of the Portland police were trigger happy, just that there have been several bad incidents involving airsoft from what I heard. Also, forgive the machismo comment. I think that was a bit over the top on my part...