Pedobear Question

[TalaRedWolf33]

I'm assuming this to go in this area because its more a question of why he isn't allowed at kumoricon, than about his cosplay.


So I ask, why is pedobear not allowed at kumoricon?
I know last year there was a big thing about it and that the person in the mascot outfit was asked to take it off or leave, but what I'm not understanding is why? Its not like the person inside the cosplay is a pedo, nor is pedobear even an actual pedo himself. I think that if you're going to say that pedobear can't come to kumoricon based on just that he shows up in pedos are around, or that he is associated with pedos; then you shouldn't let all the murdering, raping, and womanizing characters at con either. Its really unfair to only pay attention and punish one character for being associated with pedos, but not the actual bad characters being showcased at con.

I'm not trying to start a huge arguement either. I really just want to know why this is the way it is. So if this turns into a big discussion, please keep it pleasant.

[JeffT]

I think that if you're going to say that pedobear can't come to kumoricon based on just that he shows up in pedos are around, or that he is associated with pedos; then you shouldn't let all the murdering, raping, and womanizing characters at con either. Its really unfair to only pay attention and punish one character for being associated with pedos, but not the actual bad characters being showcased at con.

Because pedobear has nothing to do with anime. Or with the other programming at the convention (like video games or Japanese culture, or other fandoms).

Let's turn the question around. There's an Internet meme ambiguously making fun of, and also promoting, comic treatment of child molestation. Why should this be allowed at a convention having nothing to do with the subject, and having a substantial youth membership? Where photos of said costumes, standing near attendees of various ages, end up on the Internet?

Anime characters are portrayed as villains within the context of their stories. Rarely does the franchise itself promote said villainous behavior.

[TalaRedWolf33]

Well, he does have to do with the other fandoms, such as the internet world and memes in general. Kumoricon may have started out as just an anime convention, but its become more of a geekery convention now, which includes the memes and such of the internet.

As I said before, pedobear himself is not a pedo. He doesn't promote "comical treamtment of child molestation", he originally was to "warn" people that pedos were near. The internet twisted his meaning around and turned it into a very bad joke.

But I understand why you'd not allow him at kumoricon, thank you for explaining.

[JeffT]

Kumoricon may have started out as just an anime convention, but its become more of a geekery convention now, which includes the memes and such of the internet.

No, it hasn't.

As I said before, pedobear himself is not a pedo. He doesn't promote "comical treamtment of child molestation", he originally was to "warn" people that pedos were near. The internet twisted his meaning around and turned it into a very bad joke.

That certainly won't be the first reaction of many knowledgeable people upon seeing a photo of pedobear next to some children attendees.

Many sources state that view, but a basic analysis of the meme and the humor demonstrates it's ambiguous and has many more meanings.

[DSaturn]

It doesn't really matter what it started out as anyways, just what it means in the world now. Everything grows and changes, and when that happens, we don't say that the new aspect of it isn't a part of it or true because that's not how it originally was. We accept it as that being what it is now because that's how real life works as well.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Now, I may be wrong on this, but isn't he actually a character from a completely different thing? Like he's actually in something and not just an internet meme? I know I've seen him on a CD at Kinokuniya...

[Tsukinya]

Regardless of how the meme was initially intended, or how it is portrayed/interpreted now, the basic fact is it is something that elicits negative associations and overall causes great discomfort for those nearby.  That, alone, is sufficient grounds for banishment, no matter the environment.

[BigGuy]

 Pedobear cosplays have not been allowed at Kumoricon for several years(at least 4 I think) we have always used the obscene/offensive clause in our policies to not allow that costume. So this is not a new thing, this is simply the first year we have specifically named that costume(or variations on it) as being banned in our policies.

[Naitron]

It's common sense for any business to distance itself from anything illegal/negative.  Especially with such a character as pedobear.  The name itself is so incredibly inflammatory that no PR would ever want to deal with if an incident involving pedobear occurred good or bad.

[GregAtlas]

I can understand the reasoning a little better now after explained in this thread, but with what you described wouldn't trollface cosplayers be banned too? (among others) I saw plenty of those last year.

Not that I personally have a problem with either pedobear or trollface being at the con unless they start trouble.

[JeffT]

I can understand the reasoning a little better now after explained in this thread, but with what you described wouldn't trollface cosplayers be banned too? (among others)

We don't ban costumes only because they aren't related to anime (or a similar fandom). We ban pedobear due to the fact that it is particularly offensive and because it is not related to anime (or a similar fandom)--and not just because it is offensive, but also exacerbated because of the possible suggestive implications of the costume's appearance around attendees of various ages.

An example of something we don't ban is swastikas when they are placed on legitimate cosplay from Hellsing or Hetalia, because those are in context and directly related to the content and subject of the convention--even though they are potentially offensive. (We would treat a complaint about this on a case-by-case basis.) And a person with a costume with a swastika in a photo with children doesn't have a particular implication (beyond just any normal offense that a swastika might cause), unlike the situation with pedobear.

It's the combination of several factors that led to the decision about pedobear.

[Bresslol]

Funnily enough, the character in question actually was originated from Japanese culture.

He originated in ASCII art form on the 2ch image boards in the early 2000s, and was called Kuma. It is actually 4chan that turned the character/image into what it is today.

[GregAtlas]

I can understand the reasoning a little better now after explained in this thread, but with what you described wouldn't trollface cosplayers be banned too? (among others)

We don't ban costumes only because they aren't related to anime (or a similar fandom). We ban pedobear due to the fact that it is particularly offensive and because it is not related to anime (or a similar fandom)--and not just because it is offensive, but also exacerbated because of the possible suggestive implications of the costume's appearance around attendees of various ages.

I think that's the first time I've heard someone basically say a troll isn't offensive despite being known for harassment and offensiveness XD (Obviously not directly saying it though. I just find it a little funny.)

[@random]

To say that something isn't as offensive as Pedobear isn't quite the same as saying that it's inoffensive. That's a pretty high (or low, as it were) bar to hit.

[JeffT]

I can understand the reasoning a little better now after explained in this thread, but with what you described wouldn't trollface cosplayers be banned too? (among others)

We don't ban costumes only because they aren't related to anime (or a similar fandom). We ban pedobear due to the fact that it is particularly offensive and because it is not related to anime (or a similar fandom)--and not just because it is offensive, but also exacerbated because of the possible suggestive implications of the costume's appearance around attendees of various ages.

I think that's the first time I've heard someone basically say a troll isn't offensive despite being known for harassment and offensiveness XD (Obviously not directly saying it though. I just find it a little funny.)

Greg, that's because I didn't say it. Please do not attribute to me things I did not say. If you wish to arrive at a different conclusion than me, state it as "I believe the logical consequence of facts <x>, which you state, leads to conclusion <y>." Do not attribute to me as having taken position <y>.