Asperger's Syndrome/Autism Spectrum discussion

[DancingTofu]

This discussion was littering another topic, so I'm taking the initiative to give it a thread.

If you don't have it, you probably don't know it.  Do some research before putting in your two cents.

[DancingTofu]

I'll address some issues myself.

First of all, Autism is a genetic deviation in the same chromosome that ADHD, Diabetes, and Neurofibromatosis are linked to.  It's a variation on the "normal" ("neurotypical") thought process that often causes people to have an increased sense of focus on particular subjects, weak verbal communication skills, and difficulty transitioning, among many other things.  Recent polling shows that Asperger's Syndrome is noticeable in large portions of the population, at a similar frequency level with left-handedness.  As our sociological knowledge base has expanded, scientists and psychologists have come to accept Autism spectrum as a much broader spectrum, finding that people at the upper end of the spectrum display subjective abilities equivalent or superior to "neurotypical" people with equal Intelligence Quotients.  People with Autism often have strong abilities in "abstract reasoning", which suggests that "neuroatypical" people don't fail to read social ques or communicate effectively, it's just that the methodology differs.

So, here's the bombshell: I'm Autistic.  My 8-year-old brother, who will be starting pre-calculus soon, and has a measured IQ of 172 is autistic.  My 10-year-old brother, who has been reading at a high school level for 2 years now is autistic.  Like I said, it's not a "disability" like people say it is.  It's just different, and when combined with an actual disability, the effects are devastating because "normal" people don't understand you so they treat you like you're more disabled than you are (my 10-year-old brother had this problem before getting diagnosed; he also has ADHD), and try to "fix" you (like they did with lefties in 200 years ago) instead of helping you.

There's my two cents.  Have at it.

[superjaz]

It sounds more like asperger's syndrome, as you dont seem to have problems speaking, as the main differnce between asperger's syndrome autism is lack of speaking problems and a  higher  DSM V level and you apear to funtion pretty well, which makes me think your degree of aspergers is pretty low compaired to what I have seen, be thankful,
 
I have seen pretty low grades before, a friends brother had a light degree of it as well and thats what your description made me think of, he liked sorting beads and apeard a little more self centerd, but that was more not considering other people which is commen, I saw a video of differnt disabled 2-3 year olds and how they reacted when a teacher was pretending to be hurt or scared, and the child with autism was the only one that showed no concern for the teacher

[nikkiolie]

well you are lucky and have a mild form of autism. There is another form that is what most people associate with the disorder and those are the people that can't talk normally and can hardly function in daily life.

Also in Aspergers you don't know how to socially communicate like eye contact while talking.

I think you probably do have autism. In the mild forms people could still talk and function normally or very very close to normally with a little practice.

[superjaz]

I have a bachlors in psychology and I work in group homes for people with developmental disablities, spec the one I worked at today was with a 30 male with autism and prader-wille and I swear thats the worst, imagin not being able to understand why you can't eat when your always hungery

[nikkiolie]

I am working on my bachlor in psych now ^_^ *is actually reading a psych book as I type this.....or trying to at least*

[DancingTofu]

Yes, you're correct, my 10-year old brother and I are Aspergers.  However, I'm addressing the general functionality of Autism Spectrum, which includes Asperger's Syndrome.

I spent a lot of my life without any verbal communication.  Even today, I rely heavily on nonverbal communication.  I stutter mildly and become stressed when I try to think and talk simultaneously.  I was in speech therapy classes for a few years, and didn't use speech as a primary form of communication until I was 7.  I primarily gestured to my sister, who translated my emotions and needs into words.

My case is definitely high-functioning, but I want to address Autism-spectrum as a whole; find the common ground and you can make progress in understanding those who are more deeply effected by the debilitating nature of an atypical mental process.

[Rathany]

I spent 7 years working for a family with a non-verbal autistic child.  First as babysitter, then mother's helper then nanny.  (mother's helper is kinda like babysitter, but it's almost every day and occaisionally you do other stuff beside's child care.  I don't know if this term is used on this coast.)

He was a good kid, but it's been hard to get news of him these days.  Kinda makes me worry when the family seems to not want to give details on how he is.  I also have experience with a range of both mental and physical disabilities from both work and friends.  This is part of why I want the con to have a disabilities policy, coordinator and contact email.  I tried to get as much of that in place before con, and my coordinator was great.  Policy still needs alot of work though, looking into legal issues of policy and such.  Anyway, I am rambling

[RemSaverem]

I've worked in the DD residential field on and off for over a decade, including some work with people with varying degrees of autism. Naturally, being a paid employee in a group home setting leads one to be exposed to people for whom either the autism is more pronounced, and/or some other factor(s) in their lives lead them to have additional needs for external assistance. Sometimes this is as evident as being in a wheelchair and needing help with physical transfers, toileting, bathing, etc. Other times they have "severe behaviors", e.g., one night a client with profound autism, retardation, OCD, and other difficulties pinned me to the floor by my neck and kept kicking the phone out of my hand, such that all I could do was wiggle my foot til my shoe came off so I could dial 911 with my toe (true story). On the other end of the spectrum, someone with high-functioning Asperger's has won various of the writing contests I've run at various cons. Then of course there are the savants (yes there are really people like Rain Man, who in fact was based on a real person). So I suppose it's not illogical that it kind of irks me when people lump all individuals with any form of experience along the A/A spectrum under one rubric and assume that they can anticipate what such individuals will need or whether or not they'll be able to contribute to projects, etc., without looking at each as their own individual with their own strengths and limitations just like any other person. Or even that they can look at someone and know whether they do or don't fit along the A/A spectrum.

I would say the primary ways I recognize when someone may have high functioning Asperger's include: when they seem intelligent in all other areas, but seem to genuinely not be able to comprehend when they are having an adverse impact on other people; and/or, when their ways of, and comfort with, interacting (or not doing so), verbally or nonverbally, are significantly different from the majority of other people; and/or, when their ways of coping with and/or responding to stressors are significantly different from the majority of other people; and/or (as with OCD, which I have always been open in the KC community about having personally), when what it is that causes them stress differs significantly from the majority of other people.

[Mister_manji]

Has anybody noticed a rise in people claiming to have Asperger's lately, even when they don't? I have also noticed this in the field of ADD, which is what affects me personally. I hate when people self-diagnose. It cheapens the problems of people who genuinely have these disorders. Does anybody else have experience with this, for any disorder?

[Rathany]

Has anybody noticed a rise in people claiming to have Asperger's lately, even when they don't? I have also noticed this in the field of ADD, which is what affects me personally. I hate when people self-diagnose. It cheapens the problems people who genuinely have these problems. Does anybody else have experience with this, for any disorder?

.... yeah, don't even get me started. 

*starts to write an epically long reply about 3 times, then deletes them* 

i am just going to leave this alone and head to bed

[RemSaverem]

Has anybody noticed a rise in people claiming to have Asperger's lately, even when they don't? I have also noticed this in the field of ADD, which is what affects me personally. I hate when people self-diagnose. It cheapens the problems people who genuinely have these problems. Does anybody else have experience with this, for any disorder?

.... yeah, don't even get me started. 

*starts to write an epically long reply about 3 times, then deletes them* 

Please help me understand. Are you experiencing that people who do not know what qualifies someone as having the disorder, make the innocent mistake of believing that they qualify, when they do not, from a clinical perspective? Or are you experiencing that people deliberately falsely claim disorders to, e.g., get some kind of benefit/slack at work, school, whatnot?

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Well, I self-diagnosed when I was like 11 and got an official diagnosis when I was 16, but that was before AS was widely known about. I think it's only natural for people to hear about a general topic and think it applies to them, and if it leads to them finding out more, even if they find it doesn't apply after all, all's the better.

On the other end of the spectrum, someone with high-functioning Asperger's has won various of the writing contests I've run at various cons.

I'd really be surprised if it's only one (and I suspect I know who you're talking about--someone in this thread? Hahahaha). But I'd be surprised if it's only me.

Anyway, I have social skill issues and moderate motor skill problems. I had to basically give up playing action games and go to turn-based RPGs because I can't give commands on the fly any more, and I have to write all my stories on the computer because I can't read my own handwriting. The social skills issues are...well, I'm not really sure how to describe them. To me, I make perfect sense and people around me are illogical beasts. Things like sociatial pressure mean nothing to me because they're based on arbitrary standards that have no practical application.
Yet people hear that autistics are "logical" and they think we're all like Spock or something, and it's nothing like that.

It's odd...one of the traits is the inability or difficulty to "read" others or to put ourselves in someone else's shoes, and I can't do that with people, but I have no trouble at all doing it with fictional characters, even those we see for only a brief time.
Such as a character I love writing for--he has MAYBE 20 minutes of screen time and an image song, and there's like a handful of additional things about him scribbled on production notes. And that's it, that's the extent of what we know about him. Yet everything I write for him, people say it furthers their understanding of him because it amplifies canon. I just write what I think would fit him, basically, and same with everyone I write for (although it doesn't hurt anything that I think said character also has HFA, but that's him and doesn't apply to everyone in my stories).

There's also the issue of voice. Most of you have heard me talk, right? I get all up in what I'm saying, but I can't pick up on inflection and tone of others unless it's BLINDINGLY obvious. Yet I've taken years of voice acting and been told I'm really expressive and I get into characters wonderfully.
...except another thing about that...I can only seem to "act" when I'm doing a voice other than my own, even slightly.

I'd go on but I have to be up early. If anyone has questions I'd be glad to answer them.

[RemSaverem]

Yes I meant you but would not have "outed" you had you not presented yourself. I do not know whether any other prior contest winners are on the spectrum.

[superjaz]

there is  theory that the somthing in the 3 year boosters (mercery?) has cause autism, but it is just a theory, because the on set age is 3 its hard to tell if one makes the other happen or just they happen at the same time

[Wuntvor]

Just wanted to get into this discussion.  My son was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome at birth.  In fact we were notified prior to his birth of the fact that he had a high probability of being autistic and did we want to abort the child or risk having an autistic child.  We decided to have the child, and I have no regrets in that regard.  Any of you that have attended my Anime Friday, may have encountered my son.  He just started College this year.  He had a 4.00 GPA on his final term of High School with an average around 3.85.  I don't think he even knows what a "C" is.   Despite the fact that he is very intelligent, and does all of his homework, he has about zero social skills, and I do mean ZERO.  In his 18 years on this planet, he has had one aquaintance come to our house to "play".  I say aquaintance, because friend just isn't the proper term.  That is it, one.  The only calls I get for him are from the tele-marketers and the "vote for me" crowd.  I'm not even sure he knows what a girl is.     I do know he has no relationships.  The best I can do is be supportive.  I have hopes that being on campus and having classes with other young adults may inspire some interactivity in him.  I don't hold much hope for it though.  Ever since his sister moved out of the house to be with her fiancee, he has totally shut out everyone.   He goes directly to his room, locks the door, and immerses himself in his computer.  We pound on the wall to let him know it is dinner time.  He comes out, eats, puts his dishes in the dishwasher, goes to his room and locks the door.  Regular as clockwork.  Before our daughter moved out he would spend a great deal of time with her and her friends.  He took an interest in their projects, and activities.  He enjoyed watching anime, and collecting Pokemon cards.  Now he has no interest in any of those things.  He doesn't watch anime with us on Anime Friday, and shows no interest in the hundereds of shows I have at home.  I have tried numerous times to get him to watch them with me, to no avail.  I tried taking an interest in his computer games, but he always stops playing when I enter the room, and is uncomfortable if I try watching.  The closest I have been able to get is installing the games on a different computer and then asking him how to do something.  Usually, he will just tell me were to find the walkthrough on the net. 

I have never been tested for Asperger's myself.  I would say I show some of the symptoms, but not enough to warant an actual diagnosis.  In short if I have it, I have such a mild variant, that it would go un-noticed.  That said,  I am very directed, obsessive.  Have few friends, and tend to try to hard to make them.  I am intelligent, I also had no idea what a "C" was in school.  I used to have a hard time picking up on social cues.  I am better at it now.  I still have a hard time expressing myself, when I do recognize the cues.  I will get angry about stupid stuff, and care not a bit about things others seem to find important.  Take it for what it is worth.  Some of you may remember my rant before KCon.  Perfect example.  I think I spent 2 whole days just fuming about the lack of info on the homepage.    I tend to go way over what others deem the necessary or acceptable levels.  But, hey, thats the way I am wired.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Ellen, considering I was all over that other thread, you don't have to worry about "outing" me for that.

Wuntvor, your son's 18 and collects Pokemon cards? We have much to discuss (*is trying to complete some sets, hates dealing with little tiny kids about it*).

Also, the not wanting to share interests with parents issue is common even for non autistics. Although that may be part of it--I kinda latched onto when I was small and my parents would glance at the tv and if they saw *anything* they didn't like for any reason they'd loudly go "WHAT are you WAT-ching?!" really delibrately, and it made an impression on me, greater than on my sister (who was oftentimes there with me), so I'm wondering if it's not because my brain's like a multimedia storage bin that pulls up files like that and god this is a runon isn't it?

Wait though...18+ years ago they actually prenatally *tested* for autism? Because I'm in a giant debate right now about if notifying parents of the possibility of autism would lead to mass abortions, and if they've been doing that for nearly 20 years and the diagnoses are *increasing*, then clearly the rest of the group I'm in, their predictions of doom-n-gloom are (as I suspected) foundless paranoia.

there is  theory that the somthing in the 3 year boosters (mercery?) has cause autism, but it is just a theory, because the on set age is 3 its hard to tell if one makes the other happen or just they happen at the same time

That's been disproven. At least any link to autism has been disproven, it may yet cause other things.

[RemSaverem]

there is  theory that the somthing in the 3 year boosters (mercery?) has cause autism, but it is just a theory, because the on set age is 3 its hard to tell if one makes the other happen or just they happen at the same time

The alleged cause is the thimersol, which, yes, I believe, is a mercury-based ingredient. It is a preservative. If you need to get immunizations, some clinics specialize in carrying products that are preservative-free, or at least thimersol-free. More expensive, but worth the search.

[DancingTofu]

Wow, a lot of really valuable insight on the range of the spectrum here.  Thanks all for the discussion; keep it up!