This year's convention is terrible... (Ideas to make it better in years to come?

[gladimus]

I'm sorry.. I've loved the past 3 years of kumoricon, even last years disaster of crowding. But this 4th year for me takes the cake on the worst convention I've ever attended. It's 10x as crowded as last year, and last year people complained about crowding, so why is it WORSE this year? Do the people in charge even pay attention? This thing is all over the place, there are lines galore, people shoving and shouting so much that we're being rushed to god knows where (I was rushed into a line with no explanation when I was simply trying to get back to the lobby) and I've only been able to take five.. FIVE pictures without being shoved, shouted at to move, or even just in general because picture taking is nearly impossible in the cramped crowd. And it's raining, to boot, so no one wants to be outside. It would be a little less cramped if the weather was nice but.. Nope. We got 3 full days of rain coming up. Isn't that just great?

This convention was the first kumoricon for my boyfriend, and he hates it. We planned this out for so long to go together because he's not from around here, and we were so excited to go together for the first time.. and this is what I get to introduce him to. I'm ashamed. I really am. Newcomers will probably never come back, that's for sure.

I'm home right now and changing costumes so I can at least move around there better, but at the end of the con I'm, going to write up a nice long review of the whole thing.



Edit: It seems this topic has gone pretty far, so I changed the title a bit.
Please keep calm everyone, this is to share your experiences and opinions on this year's con. And if you have any ideas on how to make it better next year or years to come, please do so. Kumoricon can't be left with such a sour taste, let's all try to sweeten it up!

so far issues that have come up are-

Hotel Staff
K-con Staff
Organization
Lines
Location
Hotel
Out of control minors
Creepy people in downtown portland
Getting lost looking for panels, events, etc
Lack of entertainment (not enough panels, etc)


Suggestions? Post them. 

So far there have been suggestions of-
-a new location
-better communication (between k-con staff, hotel staff, attendees, etc)
-better planning
-signs to help directional issues
-splitting up events more evenly in the two buildings
-being clear that there are two buildings in use and which is holding what events
-being escorted by k-con staff to the max line, or other hotel late at night to feel safer
-Clearer rules on conduct during the con
 

[pyronine]

Seriously? Granted it is crowded, but only in the main lobby. Now that the exhibit hall is open, it has relieved some of the congestion. Last year was extremly crowded it was 1000 over the limit. this year they are tracking attendance better, and stopped it before they got overcrowded. As for being rushed around, if you hang out near the registration line, you may get moved around, do what i do. Ignore them, then when they get up to you and personally tell you to move tell them you are not in that line and are just trying to get by. Stand up for yourself, you have to do this at cons or everyone will push you around. There was an issue this morning, K-con staff had the lines in control but the hotel staff (who have ultimate say on everything) kept moving the lines and getting them mixed together. As for the Pics, i have taken 630 photos between 7 AM and Noon. All i have done is step out of the way of lines, or avoid crowded areas. the best place to get photos is on the ramp to the exhibit hall. just about everyone will go through there at least once a day.

[gladimus]

Actually the lobby was the only place NOT packed, I could move around there. Everywhere else it was hard to even get breathing space. There was a woman there who was getting very upset because she had some health issues, it was her first kumoricon, and she couldn't rest inside because it was too hot, and outside she kept getting told to move if she sat anywhere with shelter. This is no excuse for a convention, there shouldn't need to be irritation, lost con goers, mass confusion of where things are, etc. As I've said, I've attended previous k-cons for 4 years now, and I've been to Anime Expo and Anime North. These were all organized a ton better than this event right now. I'm getting so on edge hearing shouts of MOVE every direction I take. Sometimes people CAN'T move, we're all stuck and trying to go as fast as we can. Maybe it was bad because it was morning, but the floors are very cramped with little moving space. Last year was crowded, but I was at least able to get around quickly and take pictures freely without having to fish someone out of a mass of people.

Yeah, I could speak up and say I'm going elsewhere. And I did. And I got to said place, only to be yelled at to move again because of another massive hold up of people.
But people shouldn't need to speak up like this, before it was easier to get around and find everything and enjoy walking through the building just to take pictures, but it's a big hassle right now. I hope that things will settle down and it wont be so crowded as the con goes on, but so far I'm very discouraged to do very much, and so are a lot of new k-con goers I met. I heard a lot of mumbling of 'I hate this' 'This is ridiculous' 'I can't move' 'Where am I?' 'First they tell me go this way then they say that way'. It's not just me having the problem, there are a lot of stressed con goers. This was poorly planned and I hope next year they organize better and find a building with a little more free space both indoors and outdoors. 2 years ago was great, except the location was hard to get to, but if they could find a place like that in portland then it would be a wonderful con.

I'm trying my best to enjoy, and trying even harder to convince my currently peeved boyfriend that it will get better. He's been to a convention with over 20,000 people attending and even it is more organized than this little convention this year. I want him to have a good view on kumoricon, but this year it's going very poorly...

It's partially the fault of the k-con staff who put it here of all places, but the hotel staff are DEFINITELY one of the largest issues. They keep shouting and directing people in odd places, rather than saying "Go this way to the exibit hall!" they were just saying "MOVE THIS WAY, GO THIS WAY, LINE UP!" and I had to turn and say "Um, for what? I'm just trying to get upstairs." THEN they told me to go the other way. But the forceful way they keep speaking is really getting on my nerves.

[pyronine]

You are right, they should mark which way to go ahead of time, make entrances more accessable for everyone, and have it set up before the con. I was here Fri morning and they were just setting up for the con. Larger cons and cons that have been around for many years have worked the kinks out. K-con should have started setting up on Thur to get everything set right. Part of K-cons problem is they are 90% volunteer, and rely on these volunteers to do the grunt work. However, we need to take into consideration that almost all of the k-con staff did not sleep at all fri night. some of them have been awake since fri morning.


Hopefully next year will be better as it will be here again and possibly again in 2011. so by then they should have learned from their mistakes.

[Rai180990648]

I know what you're talking about. My family and I went today. Before the opening ceremony, things were fine. After that....all hell broke loose. When we went out of the ballroom, there was a sea of people there and mom, dad, sis and I had to stop at an open area against the wall to wait for the ones that were a few people behind us. My dad told us that he almost had an anxiety attack. The hotel people ordering us to move along when we just stopped for a minute to get ourselves together didn't help much either (Don't worry, Dad's alright )

Don't even get me started on the line to the Exhibitor's Hall. Waiting in the rain, in a t-shirt, with little to no umbrella....it was the worst. After we bought what we wanted in the Exhibitor's Hall, we went back to our house.

It's been ok so far....but it's definately not as fun as I thought it was going to be.

[pyronine]

It's been ok so far....but it's definately not as fun as I thought it was going to be.

I am beginning to agree with you, it is not as fun as i thought, i guess thats why i have been hanging outside all day or in the driveway to the exhibition hall taking pictures of everyone. I have had more fun doing that than anything else.

Hopefully tonight will be better after the curfew. 

[Rai180990648]

It's been ok so far....but it's definately not as fun as I thought it was going to be.

I am beginning to agree with you, it is not as fun as i thought, i guess thats why i have been hanging outside all day or in the driveway to the exhibition hall taking pictures of everyone. I have had more fun doing that than anything else.

Hopefully tonight will be better after the curfew. 

We're going back tomorrow with one of my sister's friends. I'm hoping that it'll be a little less hetic tomorrow....

[The_Geek]

The people I went with hated the crowding and the lines, where as I just see it as another part of the convention. The staff handled it really well too; they made sure to prevent overcrowding in a bunch of places. The maid staff was really wonderful with helping out with questions, and the registration got their job done quickly. Will call didn't have to wait as much as I thought. The people I went with definitely aren't coming again though, but that may be due to the fact that they don't even like anime.

You really can't look into past experiences for anything, because you'll just compare it. 

[pyronine]

I talked to a few of the officials this evening. Apparently the attendance today hit 6000. last year's total attendance over all 3 (official) days was 4500. They had to shut down registration in the early afternoon.

[wolfy2491]

Yeah, I agree that it was a bad choice of the hotel. The staff are just being really rude. Like last year, the staff mostly left us alone unless we were being rambunctious. It was my brothers first convention, and he didn't like it nearly as much as I thought he would. I really don't want the con to be at the same hotel next year...

Although, I thought they did a good job keeping the vendors hall under control. The past few years the vendors hall has been really crowded. So I'll give them that.

But people have been yelled at, kicked out, and physically shoved. I don't personally think that's right. I mean, most of us are teenagers.

[gladimus]

Sheesh. I went back again and it wasn't as bad, but there really isn't much to do until the later hours. But that's because the better stuff is tomorrow, it's not too much better though. A lot of the panels look pretty unappealing to me. Oh well XD

And there's no room for glomp circle D:

[Blue Leader]

While I do agree that it is/was crowded (but I expected that), I personally haven't seen or experienced any pushing, shoving, fighting, shouting (well, shouting that isn't expected), or anything else like that. I thought that it's been a pretty good con overall...

[GwarNekoChan]

<sup>To be honest, I simply agree with this.... I went upstairs to call my mom, 2 minutes later, There's a big crowded line, saying that "Downstairs is It's at it's max capacity." But I was really in a hurry to go back downstairs because I was with a group of people. There was another group that left her bag downstairs, which had her money, and other valuable items, and they still wouldnt let her through. I think the Hotel staff is being a little rude... They think we know where we are going when we don't. I honestly never have been there, so I got lost. I just think they could have been nicer, even to the little kids. Some kids were walking up the ramp and didnt even know what was going on, and I just hear. "WHAT ARE YOU DOING!? GET BACK DOWN THERE. MOVE!!!" I just thought it was disrepectful. The Kumoricon staff was also telling us to move to the walls to clear the way, I didn't mind that, I just wanted to know why. O:

Aside from that, It really was crowded. I think that hotel was a bad place to choose.</sup> 

[pyronine]

The Kumoricon staff was also telling us to move to the walls to clear the way, I didn't mind that, I just wanted to know why. O:

It is because of fire code. isles, walkways, doorways, and sidewalks can not be blocked in case of an emergency. would you rather have the police enforcing this or the con staff?

[Xixecal]

The location honestly seems like a very weird choice to me. Kumoricon is simply too big to fit efficiently in the space - I mean, I have to wonder how many more people would be attending the panels if they weren't in a second building, just by itself...

[Man of the Public]

I agree it could have been handled better but as soon as the register line was closed it was smooth sailing from there. I'm sure tomorrow will be much better as the staff and hotel will have gotten used to the hotel and con guests respectively.

Plus hanging out in the Executive Tower where the Panels are being held it was much less crowded.

[Yugure]

Love the location, but not the hotel.  There really isn't enough open space in the lobby areas where people hang out particularly on a rainy day like today was and very prone to clogging up.  The ups and downs of the hotel really isn't conductive to smooth transitions from one area to another (I was wearing a short costume, I can't imagine how it was for some of the ladies with full length dresses to use those narrow escalators).  The elevators were packed.  The staff was quite pushy in situations where they didn't need to be.  

[gladimus]

All the previous years have had nice open spaces to go out and relax. Last year there was that nice big park and courtyard area for people to have photoshoots, games, or just a place to sit and relax. The building was a bit crowded, but after today, that crowdedness seemed NICE almost. And if you felt crowded, outdoors was available with a lot of space. The problem here was obviously the crowding, but there was at least places to go to get away from it easily.

The year previous to that also had a park off to the side for people to relax and play games, but the location was a little inconvenient and the building itself was so wide spread in there that panels were kind of hard to find. But again, open space!

Even before that at the red lion there was a courtyard and plenty of places to move around, but it was also in a slightly inconvenient area for trimet users.

This year... Is inconvenient for the disabled, has no real open space areas to go to since it's surrounded by buildings, no courtyards, and all the sheltered outside areas are in front of doorways so everyone has to stand out in the rain to get any space. And even that little space on the sidewalk is limited and unpleasant. The rain and lack of space kept most people inside, and the multitude of people made it even worse. It got too hot, too crowded, too hectic, and made me feel trapped a lot of the time and on edge. I missed a few panels because the crowding took me the amount of time the panel lasted to just GET to where it was.

I think after 3 it calmed down finally because I'm sure some people got fed up and went home, others went to go eat and relax elsewhere, people were settling in to panels and the AMV contest, and those who just wanted to go to the dealers room were able to. I was able to stay in a steady flow of people after that time, it was still a bit crowded, but no longer overwhelming. But the hotel staff were still being a bit loud and bossy of where to go in some areas, and they still never said for what. They just kept saying "Go to the stairs" "go down there" "you have to go this way", which leaves very confusing messages to newcomers and long time con-goers alike. And the lack of signs was pretty bad too, I only saw a few, and that was for pre-register, which was placed in such a weird place... I think the years before there were always signs with arrows pointing here and there saying what things were in that direction, like panel 1-4, movie viewing, ballroom, etc. And that was nice. It's rather difficult for someone in a hot sweaty costume in a big crowd of people possibly carrying bags and props to stop what they're doing, dig around for their little guide book, and look over the map to pinpoint a location.

This con was more inconvenience than anything else, really.

But I do agree the dealer's room was done VERY nicely, I was actually shocked to not be bumped or crowded or even struggling to get past people in there for once. Even the big conventions have dealer room issues, but this was a very nice change! It seems the dealer's room and con traffic changed places though. -___-;;

[Xixecal]

Actually, my main complainy so far as a first-time con goer - every event I've gone to so far has started anywhere from fifteen minutes to an hour and a half (!) late. Needless to say this messes with any attempted scheduling quite a lot.

[gladimus]

Oh yes, that too!! It's because of the crowding I think, the people in charge of the panels were late, weren't able to set up in time because of it, etc.
I went to a panel thinking I would find my friend there, it should have been 15 minutes in and the staff person waiting outside the panel room didn't even know why people were lining up for the panel. So no one knew what was even going on... I must say this has been very disorganized.. It sucks, because it does make a con feel like a bad experience for newcomers, or even regular congoers having a first go at kumoricon. Those people are more than likely not impressed and might not come back. Mistakes like that aren't good at all...

[catboy-trades]

Oh yes, that too!! It's because of the crowding I think, the people in charge of the panels were late, weren't able to set up in time because of it, etc.
I went to a panel thinking I would find my friend there, it should have been 15 minutes in and the staff person waiting outside the panel room didn't even know why people were lining up for the panel. So no one knew what was even going on... I must say this has been very disorganized.. It sucks, because it does make a con feel like a bad experience for newcomers, or even regular congoers having a first go at kumoricon. Those people are more than likely not impressed and might not come back. Mistakes like that aren't good at all...

When I was late starting my panels it was because I had to walk up the 10 levels to my room... grab my stuff then walk down 10 floors to the panel room... I actually was able to get an elevator to stop for me and I felt great cause they had room for me... but I was pushed aside and two giggling girls got on instead... I had been waiting for 30 min and these girls just rushed right on. 

after that I have found that using the stairs is easier... however there is no security there... and I feel that would be the best place for someone to get hurt or mugged.

[Kios]

Its just slightly crazy the amount of chaos going on... I'm barely able to get anywhere I need to, and my Vivi costume got damaged in the crowds being pushed around by security... I was tempted not to come tomorrow, but I'm meeting a friend of mine for the first time and she means a lot to me so...

But, if Kumoricon is at this place NEXT year... I'm not going. I'll save my money for Sakura-con or something...
Overall, this being my FIRST convention ever... Not impressed...

[bou12345318]

I just thought it was impossible find out where certain panels are. The maps were confusing and there were no signs to tell us where to go. What even sucked more was some of the staff said I couldnt go to the bottem floor for the Ouran tea party until I got 2-3 other staff to tell him where I was going. Also after waiting for a hour for the RAVE and reaching the front entrence we were told that the age limit was changed from all ages to 18+.

[pyronine]

Also after waiting for a hour for the RAVE and reaching the front entrence we were told that the age limit was changed from all ages to 18+.

Actually it was never all ages, if you look at the time slot, it is / was scheduled after the 12:00 curfew. Even if it was open to all ages, you would not had been in their long. Security would have had to remove anyone underage at midnight if not before. This would be impossible to do with the rave going on. would you want security to stop the rave just before midnight and spend awhile, with the lights on, to go through and check everyone's ID? Personally I wouldnt.

Child: 12 and under – Can attend the convention except during convention curfew between midnight and 6:00 AM and must be accompanied at all times by a parent or legal guardian paid attendee

Minor: 13-17 – Can attend the convention except during convention curfew between midnight and 6:00 AM and must have a Parental Permission Form or proof of legal emancipation on file by check-in.

[bou12345318]

Also after waiting for a hour for the RAVE and reaching the front entrence we were told that the age limit was changed from all ages to 18+.

Actually it was never all ages, if you look at the time slot, it is / was scheduled after the 12:00 curfew. Even if it was open to all ages, you would not had been in their long. Security would have had to remove anyone underage at midnight if not before. This would be impossible to do with the rave going on. would you want security to stop the rave just before midnight and spend awhile, with the lights on, to go through and check everyone's ID? Personally I wouldnt.

Child: 12 and under – Can attend the convention except during convention curfew between midnight and 6:00 AM and must be accompanied at all times by a parent or legal guardian paid attendee

Minor: 13-17 – Can attend the convention except during convention curfew between midnight and 6:00 AM and must have a Parental Permission Form or proof of legal emancipation on file by check-in.

Yes but we were told the RAVE was for all ages 13+ and, it did not say 18+ in our booklet.

[gladimus]

Is it just me or does it feel like there's not as much to do this year? All the somewhat interesting panels are kind of early and after noon they look less and less interesting... And I havn't seen one game of Glomp Spin the Ramune Bottle or Red Rover. Of course that's because there's nowhere to do it... I really hope they choose a place with a park area on the side like the other ones, those gave everyone breathing space, a place for photoshoots, a place to relax, play games, and record videos. Oh and have RPG fights. It's like there's no space to do any of that anymore! ; x;
I love you, Kumoricon, but this year our relationship seems to be faltering a little! If you need to we can have relationship counseling, or family counseling D:

XD I'm really hoping they fix these bad mistakes next year.
At least tomorrow wont be as crowded, the last day never really is.

[Blue Leader]

Actually, I started to think about it last night, and I did remember one of the Kumoricon workers being rather rude to my mother and I.
We were up on the second level above the main building and we were standing off onto the side after getting out of the Cynthia Martinez Q&A, and we were just getting ourselves together, repositioning our outfits and such, and this Kumoricon staffer comes up and goes "are you part of (something) cosplay group?", we answered no and than he just goes "than move out of the way!"
Rawr. That really wasn't called for at all.

Today, though, was even worse. I thought the staff was even worse today. The security I really didn't have much problems with (other than them not really giving clear directions and expecting you to know where you're going, but nothing too extremely rude), but the staff was to me the rudest. I don't know how many times we were told to move or get out of the way... Anyone ever heard of the word "please"?
And I can understand them getting annoyed or frustrated, sure, but those K-Con staff are volunteers... If they didn't want to do it or couldn't handle it than they shouldn't have volunteered. They knew what they were getting into.
After the Cynthia Martinez autographs this afternoon my mother and I were, again, getting ourselves together when this girl walks by-- I have to assume she was of the staff as she appeared out of no where from the autograph room, wasn't in line, and didn't have a costume-- and we were off to the side wall, with more than enough room for people to pass by. The hilt of my mother's sword had fallen a bit as we were trying to collect our things, and this girl comes by and shouts "Your sword is in the way! I have to WALK HERE!" Talk about a bitch. She couldn't have just, I don't know, walked around instead of plowing straight through?
Before we left they were getting ready for the cosplay contest, and there was a line forming outside. Some K-Con staffer comes up to everyone that was standing their previously by the side of the building and goes "Move out of here, this is for the cosplay contest"... Again, was that really needed? All that needed to be said was "Excuse me, we're going to be lining up for the cosplay contest here... Would you all mind moving away from the wall so the line can form here?" Would that have been so difficult?
I think the K-Con staff really needs to brush up on their courtesy, and they all really need to be told (before the event starts) that they need to be nice to the guests and respect everyone there... After all, we are the paying guests there. If it wasn't for us there would be no Kumoricon.

And yeah, I have to agree that there really didn't seem to be a whole lot going on. A lot of the time I found myself unsure of what to do or where to go, as nothing really sounded all that interesting. I went to a couple panels, but really those tend to get a bit boring after a while... I don't know, there could have been some other non-panel events going on, and just more going on in general.
Even looking at the schedule there are large blocks of time where there really isn't anything going on, and unless you want to go watch anime in extremely uncomfortable chairs of play video games for hours on end, there really isn't much to keep you around from the morning to the late afternoon...

[Tsuki-Ken]

Next year's con will be in the same place...
Frankly, the start of the con really confused me, and I was a little bored.
During the opening ceremony, after they said "Don't strip," it started getting so hot that I was tempted to unbutton my jacket/dress. (I only unwrapped my scarf and I had clothes on underneath, but you get my point)
Although I loved the bathrooms for their spaciousness, lines formed and people would just cut ahead when stalls opened up.
What was with the escalators? They're too skinny to have people walking side-by-side(much like the obscurely located stairwell next to the women's locker room), and they all started out turned off. Later on, some were turned on, but there were also lines going across escalators just to go down the escalators to the ballroom, etc.
Lots of people were confused by the location of events, especially the exhibitors hall; I found it by walking around the building. A location with a park would be great, especially for all the photo shoots.

[Yugure]

Is it just me or does it feel like there's not as much to do this year? All the somewhat interesting panels are kind of early and after noon they look less and less interesting... And I havn't seen one game of Glomp Spin the Ramune Bottle or Red Rover. Of course that's because there's nowhere to do it... I really hope they choose a place with a park area on the side like the other ones, those gave everyone breathing space, a place for photoshoots, a place to relax, play games, and record videos. Oh and have RPG fights. It's like there's no space to do any of that anymore! ; x;
I love you, Kumoricon, but this year our relationship seems to be faltering a little! If you need to we can have relationship counseling, or family counseling D:

XD I'm really hoping they fix these bad mistakes next year.
At least tomorrow wont be as crowded, the last day never really is.

I saw people playing that bottle game outside around 7:30 pm in pioneer place.  The weather was nasty today, standing in that line outside for the cosplay contest was not fun.  I was lucky to have an umbrella on hand but it was cold. 

[superjaz]

read thru this And it seems like a lot of complaints are about the hotel, so lets work on that, where do you all want to see the con at?        and do note we are too big for a lot of hotels And that that is prob too big for double tree, and we are too small for convention cente who would charge arm and leg and doesn't have hotels near by

[Rexyisashark]

I, personally, don't agree. I haven't had any problems so far--in fact, last year it took two hours for me to get in, and this year it took fifteen minutes. Maybe I'm just in all the right places at all the right times, but the only place I had trouble with was the elevators; one of which broke down.

Besides that, it hasn't been so bad, even if more room would be appreciated, or at least a real park nearby.

[Sarurun Kamui]

Next year's con will be in the same place...
Frankly, the start of the con really confused me, and I was a little bored.
During the opening ceremony, after they said "Don't strip," it started getting so hot that I was tempted to unbutton my jacket/dress. (I only unwrapped my scarf and I had clothes on underneath, but you get my point)
Although I loved the bathrooms for their spaciousness, lines formed and people would just cut ahead when stalls opened up.
What was with the escalators? They're too skinny to have people walking side-by-side(much like the obscurely located stairwell next to the women's locker room), and they all started out turned off. Later on, some were turned on, but there were also lines going across escalators just to go down the escalators to the ballroom, etc.
Lots of people were confused by the location of events, especially the exhibitors hall; I found it by walking around the building. A location with a park would be great, especially for all the photo shoots.

I did rather like the parking garage as the exhibitors' hall (and I can see that name confused some people as well...). Since they closed off that lower-level indoor entrance, everyone had to get there through the outside, which was pretty weird. Not nice when you're trying to get there in the rain, I bet.

The escalators take up a lot of space, too... that main floor could feel a lot more open if there were wider stairs or something. Turning them off made moving slower, though perhaps safer? o_o Not sure what was up with that. I hear the elevators had some of their own problems, too...

Personally, I think the area would be feel much more open if it just had more windows. There are plenty in the third floor rooms and such, but  the second floor doesn't really have any windows and the first floor only has the doors going outside. It also means you have to go to an upstairs room to get a view, otherwise you just look at people. (Which is fine, considering the circumstances, but... sky... fresh air... -swoons-)

[Acheron]

Mmm, hate the hotel, not the con.

It seemed small and confusingly laid out (and the fact that most of the ways to move between floors were uncomfortably crowded, broken, or closed off didn't help at ALL). The staff was, at best, easily frustrated and overwhelmed by everyone, and at worse, incredibly rude and unhelpful. Of course, they weren't all like this, but it's like... you guys clearly don't like cons OR congoers, so why did you rent your hotel out to us? The location wasn't any good either, in my opinion. At the Doubletree, Lloyd Center was right there for food, but I'm almost positive there isn't anything cheap within walking distance of the Hilton; not to mention the lack of open spaces where we can chill. We're right in the middle of the city, which is a TERRIBLE place for a con to be! And, to add to it all, isn't the Hilton hella expensive?

Still, I'm enjoying myself. I always have, and I hope I always will. There will always be complaints, but it would take a lot more than a crappy hotel to make me hate K-con.

[gladimus]

Because kumoricon is getting larger every year, it needs to be assumed that the next year will have at least 1,000 or more newcomers, and now that it's larger it's safe to assume that next year maybe another 2,000 more will come.
There are a few places that need to be looked for with this assumption.

First- Somewhere with a park or courtyard nearby and easy to access. People need a place to go and rest if indoors gets too stuffy. Also it makes room for games, and interesting photoshoots. People like going outside, it's spacious, relaxing, and easier to find costumes sometimes. It's also a good place to eat lunch, dinner, etc.

This con has gotten big enough that it can't just be reliant on one hotel, it needs a place with more than one close by, like this year but the floors need more space. This current hotel has tiny lobbies and tons of stairs. Even though Double Tree was cramped, it had more halls and spacious areas so it was easier to get around. The Hilton.. Even the sidewalks feels cramped. It's a rather compact set up in there.
An area with 2 to 3 accessible hotels with enough hall space on the floor level would be much more comfortable and easy to work with.
One building would be for main events and the other for viewing and panels.

Another idea is to look for some decent banquet halls, these places have ballrooms that can be split up with dividers and offer quite a bit of space. Ones with hotels nearby of course, and if not near the max line, something that is at least easy to take a frequent busline to from the max.

I don't know how the convention center is too small, they expo center and oregon convention center have a capacity for over 9,000 people. (over 9,000 pun not intended but still funny XD)

Someone suggested the Rose Quarter too. I'm not sure about these places fully though, since I'm in beaverton and don't go to portland too often. The convention may have to be moved to the more outskirty areas of portland, not in vancouver since that's washington, but anywhere just outside portland or near the edge of it. Or just anything around the max line.

Really in a nutshell what is needed is this-

-A park/courtyard
-Nearby restaurants
-Multiple hotels or a hotel with multiple buildings
-Something with spacious halls and lobbies
-Trimet accessible


And for gods sake, someone needs to make sure the hotel staff understand how to handle thousands of cosplayers XD

[Himeno]

Not staff, so I don’t know the exact details, but I do work for two conventions back home and have been to a number of different conventions all over the world in different types of venues, so I can say how these things work.

On the major comments people have posted...

Weather: I honestly don’t think the weather this year has been much of a problem. The “rain” hasn’t been much more then a few drops, no reason to avoid going outside. The most rain of any significant amount there has been was for a few minutes today. The issue here isn’t with the “rain”, it’s because the nearest open space is two blocks away, as opposed to next door like last year. A lot of people don’t want to go that “far away”, so they crowd around in the hotel.

Escalators: Turning them off makes them safer. With the amount of people/weight moving though them, if they brake down, they aren’t safe – the weight could cause them to surge down and throw everyone off the end, or cause a long dress to get stuck in the edges. Turning them off locks them in place. When they are on, they aren’t locked.

Hotel: Kumoricon booked the Hilton before last years convention, before they had numbers for last year. They would have used the numbers from 2007 and a predicted growth rate based on the 2006-2007 numbers to project expected attendance for 2009.
2006 had 2,250.
2007 had 3,003.
With those numbers, a forecast for 2008 would have been around 3,800 and around 4,400 for this year.
They got 4,400 in 2008. They simply weren’t expecting the 6,000 approx this year. To complicate matters they have a venue they haven’t used before with a venue staff that isn’t used to events like this and likely didn’t know exactly what they were getting themselves in for. Most of the venue issues come out of a poor attendance projection, inexperienced hotel staff and normal ‘new venue’ teething problems.
That being said, the Hilton isn’t a very good venue for Kumoricon, but Kumoricon is locked in under contract for next year. I don’t see Kumoricon pulling out of that contract (doing so would likely cost them a fair amount), though the hotel might.
While the Hiltons event spaces might be large (ie, the ballroom), its infrastructure can’t support and event of this type and size. (I don’t even want to think about the security problems for the dealers room being in the parking garage – all those possible points of entry and needing to secure the area when the dealers are closed...).

The majority of the problems that I have noticed are related to the venue. While some of those issues (ie, hotel staff being rude/unhelpful, sound proofing of the moveable walls [live events]) can be solved, the main issues (such as needing another bank of elevators) can’t be.

At one point last night, I did notice a line issue outside Live 1. The line was blocking off the top of the stairs from the lobby, then growing to block the elevators and the escalator. Security and a number of staff (including Beau) came to fix the problem, but no one really looked to have a clear idea about how to fix it and the attendees in the line didn’t appear to understand what they were being told. Crowd control, line management and customer service is something Kumoricon staff needs to work on.

Really, the only venue in Portland that can host Kumoricon at its current size (ie 6,000+) is the convention centre. I would hope that Altonimbus Entertainment is currently speaking with the Portland Convention Centre about dates for 2011 (and 2010 should Hilton decide to dissolve the two year contract).

[makichan]

Yeah, this year has had its pros and cons. These have been my only beefs:

The hotel - I'm finally getting the hang of where everything is at but it's so crowded. I understand when staff members want us to move but when there's nowhere to move to it's frustrating... especially when you move to one area that you were told to move to, only to have a different staff member tell you to move out from that area, as well.
The Hotel Staff - Don't get me wrong, I can see how it might be frustrating/nerve wracking for all of them, but it's just so plain to see how uptight they are about everything. It feels like we're being herded and prodded every which way.
The con staff - This doesn't apply to everyone, but a select few. Some have often directed me in different areas than what I had asked for, no one ever has a direct answer, and often there have been a lot of short tempers. I can see how running this thing can be hella stressful, but for the people who keep it cool despite everything... you're awesome and I appreciate your effort.

Other than that, I've been having a blast meeting new con buddies and seeing all of you forum goers in person.
One more day left~

EDIT:
I forgot the worst part... the location. One of the Soul Eater photo shoots ended early because of a few drunk bums loud and boldly claiming that Park Plaza was their turf and proceeded to take things from us and pick at our clothing. I ended up verbally slamming all of them because I was so offended and pissed off. They clearly had no sense of personal space. This is just a warning to be careful, everyone.

[gladimus]

"The “rain” hasn’t been much more then a few drops, no reason to avoid going outside. The most rain of any significant amount there has been was for a few minutes today."


Umm... I'm not sure where you've been but almost all day saturday it was raining, and sunday it was raining on and off. Sometimes it was light rain, but I got caught in some pretty heavy downpoors multiple times. You must have gone outside at the right time, because I sure didn't. And with props, makup, paint, and certain costume materials.. This is NOT weather anyone would want to go out in with these things. My costume prop was held together with tape, and the rain was beginning to make it curl up, and I had an umbrella. But the umbrella didn't help because of the wind blowing the rain around. I had to go home and change costumes because of this.


And what was kumoricon thinking? You should never make a 2 year contract in a building that you've never even tried using before. It's totally unfair to the con-goers who are part of the reason this entire convention can do what it does. And now look, people wont want to go next year because of this location choice. There's thinking ahead, then there's just going ahead of yourself. There is no way next year at the Hilton will be very fun. More people will want to come, but wont be able to now because there will surely be 7,000 to 8,000 people, and when it can barely fit 6,000... Pardon my french but I think we are quite f***ed.

Can you imagine? Registration line would close off so fast no one would even see it coming, and a lot of people are going to be disappointed.

For the con's sake, I hope the hotel ends the contract.

[tori-chama]

I agree with just about everything being said here, but I wanted to add something: smoking. Was it just me, or were there a lot more people smoking around the hotel than previous years? I can't tell you how many times I had to pass through clouds of cigarette smoke. I mean, come on. There were a lot of really young children there. =/

[Faaedab]

I would first like to say @Himeno Thank you for outlining that very clearly. Second, @gladimus Unfortunately we were not expecting the hotel staff to act as they did during the con. As a yojimbo from what interaction I had with a few staff they were fairly pleasant but I will admit I had recieved my fair share of complaints about them too, but unfortunately we are in no way/shape/form having any say over them as we are in the Hotels area therefor we are stuck having to be patient with them. As with location expectations, we did somewhat expect there to be crowding issues, we just didn't know where to expect them to occur. Being that we have gone through this con and we now know what tends to happen where, things should run MUCH smoother next year as we can properly set up for lines and have a game plan for keeping all the places flowing smoothly. @tori-chama with the smoking issue, unfortunately as yojimbo our power to ask people to do things stops at the door, so at that point it is up to the hotel staff to do something should they deem it necessary. Also as for location we are *hopefully* gonna have the largest space possible to us in 2011 but DO NOT take this as a promise, as it is still in the works, so untill then we will be watching the pre-reg numbers throughout the year and make decisions based upon that. So with all of that out of the way for now, I will say thank you all for coming and I am very sorry that some of you didn't have the con experience you were hoping for, and that I hope you will show up next year as it should go much better as we know our layout and where the bulk of the issues will be.

[DSaturn]

I haven't read all of the posts yet, but I'd like to give the opinion that arose in my group.

We had three people who went last year, and two people that were first timers. I actually didn't find the crowds so bad this year. The first day, in the morning, it was hard to find a place where you could stop, rest, and get your barrings so that you knew where you were going, and we even had issues getting around when they closed off the ballroom. The hardest part about everything was finding our way around, and the hotel didn't seem like they had any idea about what they were getting themselves into.

Our first-timers said that they loved it, and they deffinately want to come back next year. I think most of the issues that came up was merely because this was the first time having the con there. They were taking the most photos for us, as well as one of the vets, and they didn't seem to ever have any trouble.

[JeffT]

Yes but we were told the RAVE was for all ages 13+ and, it did not say 18+ in our booklet.

Marked as 18+ means photo ID and/or hand stamp needs to be checked, due to adult content.

Not marked as 18+, but after minor curfew, means that normally your adult badge alone is sufficient to get in.

The 18+ designation occurs only when the content warrants it, regardless of whether it is after curfew or not. Sorry, but being not marked 18+ should not have been interpreted to mean that it was an exception to curfew.

[JeffT]

And what was kumoricon thinking? You should never make a 2 year contract in a building that you've never even tried using before. It's totally unfair to the con-goers who are part of the reason this entire convention can do what it does. And now look, people wont want to go next year because of this location choice. There's thinking ahead, then there's just going ahead of yourself. There is no way next year at the Hilton will be very fun. More people will want to come, but wont be able to now because there will surely be 7,000 to 8,000 people, and when it can barely fit 6,000... Pardon my french but I think we are quite f***ed.

Can you imagine? Registration line would close off so fast no one would even see it coming, and a lot of people are going to be disappointed.

For the con's sake, I hope the hotel ends the contract.

We have the largest hotel in the Portland metro area. Unfortunately it is not the case that there is a list of several suitable hotels where we can pick and choose from a list of pros and cons.

We don't make a decision to sign a 2-year contract lightly, but there are a large number of reasons that such planning ahead is critical for the convention, even if there could be unexpected problems with the venue. In particular, this is the time range that is standard for planning events this large.

The hotel has every interest in working with us to make our next year as smooth as possible, and in fact, repeating the venue will help us learn the details that we need to plan for and be more prepared for next year.

[Hakushaku]

Yeah it WAS more crowded. But no one can control the weather ofcourse. I liked it but I did not like the Hotel Staff. VERY rude. I had one a$$hole approach me while I was on a table and ask "Do you sit on furniture at home?" I said "No". So he said "Well then can you please not sit on ours?" Well that was fine but use a different approach, buddy. And try to get more seating to support conventions. Some people can't sit on carpet/floors.  I do think I enjoyed last year's better, though. I liked the Double Tree better for 2005 and 2008.

[melchizedek]

I actually thought the double tree was too crowded for 2008.  However, having a park adjacent to the con space makes a huge difference.  Yes, pioneer courthouse square is a couple blocks a way, but people were still asking me where to find it and pioneer place (the mall).  At double tree both were easier to find. 

However, if we went back there, I think the crowding would be worse.  The other option would be to make the con be pre-reg only but I'd hate to see the day when we are not opening to people that just want to stop in for a day.

As is said, Hilton is the biggest hotel in portland, the only other option would be a multi hotel venue. 

But yeah, I feel your pain, as staff I couldn't get stuff done in a timely manner because of congestion, hence part of the reason certain things were starting late. 

Lastly, there is a rant and rave section of the forum which these discussions might be better placed in.

[DSaturn]

Yes, I almost forgot... The biggest thing we kept coming back to was the fact that we missed having the park, like last year. There was no room to do the games/dances/other things. My group went through a lot of trouble learning a dance so that we could do it with another group that had created it, and it turned out we never did get room to do it. We absolutely adored the park last year.

[ichigo_m.]

I have to agree....

It wasn't put together well. There were alot of people, and I'm fine with that, but it more how poorly it was put together. It was ridiculous to have only 4 elevators and have the stairs blocked off after 9. Also why not points to the stairs better, it was ridiculous getting to the karaoke room. It would be better to keep everything on 4 floors that were some what close together.

Also, what was up with the staff blocking off that one ramp, it made no sense. Also why were some of the escalators on and some off, come on, people like consistency!

Edit: I think K-con is big enough that we need the convention center next year....

[Bresslol]

It was ridiculous to have only 4 elevators

Okay, seriously.

I need to point something out.

How is this Kumoricon's fault? Did they arbitrarily decide to put four elevators in the hotel? Are you expecting them to magically build more elevators or something?

I'm not meaning to single your post out, but complaining about things outside of the convention's control (the building, weather, city, etc) is a little ridiculous. Something like "The yojimbo who were in charge of line control of the elevators did their job poorly"* is a little more reasonable of a complaint.

It's fine to have beefs about the convention itself. It's not fine to make complaints that are out of the convention's control.

[leonmasteries]

ya, this hotel really wasn't prepared for this con, otherwise it might have gone a bit more smoothly.

[XFD]

Okay, seriously.

I need to point something out.

How is this Kumoricon's fault? Did they arbitrarily decide to put four elevators in the hotel? Are you expecting them to magically build more elevators or something?

When you decide to put a new building somewhere, you usually send out a surveyor to make sure the site is suitable for the project. If a company constructs a building on unsuitable land where it shortly sinks and topples over, blaming the earth is ridiculous. (E.g. the fact the hotel only had 4 elevators).

The issue isn't that the convention didn't build the hotel, the issue being brought up is that the chosen place was apparently unsuitable. It is the staff's duty to ensure that the site selected is appropriate for the given crowd. This is the complaint being raised.

[~boogiepop~]

I actually had a lot of fun at the convention this year. Sadly, it was because my group and I were trying to stay out of the hotel. I will also not be attending Kumoricon next year if it takes place in the Hilton again. I've never been treated so badly at a hotel in my life. When the hotel kept switching out how to get down to gaming and I started to go the wrong way one of them got in my face and yelled "You're going the wrong way you freak!". I've worked in jobs that demand customer service and I know it can be tough, but god damn, you don't berate your customers.

The yoji were pretty ballin' though. I <3 all ya'll and I had no problems with them minus an incident with one (who would I send a complaint to about that by the way?).

Having it downtown was pretty nice too, lots of restaurants to choose from to go and chill at and the parks downtown were gorgeous for photoshoots when there weren't bums in them. Though if they do have the con at the Hilton next year, I suggest doing what Sakuracon did and set up a "Meetup schedule" in the programming guide with numbered areas to have gatherings in.

All in all, I can't wait 'til the higher ups are able to hold it at the convention center. I don't know the numbers, but I'm sure Kumoricon is just going to get bigger and bigger. I think that will be spacious enough to make everyone happy. Also, I think someone mentioned earlier about there being no hotels by the area? The Double Tree is only a short walk, or a one stop Max ride for the handicapped, away and the Red Lion is also right down the street as well.