This year's convention is terrible... (Ideas to make it better in years to come?

[Slash5150]

Has anyone thought of perhaps some kind of online stream?  I'm just throwing this out there because I'm going to be straight up honest...the "con meetings" are terrible.  The fact that a 20 minute youtube video can be uploaded and basically explains the ENTIRE meeting really does not make me want to spend the money and gas to go to such meetings that are outside of my city. 

But online streaming can be a viable option with things like ustream and what not

We tried Skype last year.  We often had techinical problems with it and only ONE person ever tried to Skype into our meetings.  Detailed minutes are posted by our handsome Secretary. 

Not Skype.  Ustream.  Just so that people can actually see it and watch it. 

Ok - What equipment, subscription costs and tech expertise would be needed for this?  It would have to be run by people who commit to coming to every single meeting early and having it set up on time.  

We tried to find people to be General Meeting Tech Staff last year and never found a single willing person.  What tech there is is done by the execs.  

Webcam.  Thats it lol. Well..sound is usually nice too :-p

But ustream tv is pretty much the big name in things now, that and justin tv

[Meganekko]

Heheh, see I just wanted the hotel block video....

There's minutes for regular meetings.

[MichaelEvans]

Any kind of digital video camera.  I think I saw -a- camera at our last meeting, but to be honest after fixing my $180 camera (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830180213) to a tripod it can capture 848x480 @ 30 FPS (progressive MJPEG inside .mov).  I'd want to capture the audio separately with a laptop and higher quality mic and/or feed directly from the mixer.

The only major downside to capturing video with a picture camera is that the image stabilizer and focusing system are de-activated in that mode.

If someone has an actual digital camera that can do better that's another possiblity.  Maybe we could get one of the AMV guys who actually has software licensed to produce (various patent encumbered complaint) compressed videos.  I can -technically- produce them, they'd just not be legal... Or there's Ogg's Theora or the newer (still being encoder/decoder optimized but format fixed) (BBC/etc) Dirac format.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theora
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_(codec) (Fixed the URL to an explicit one to include the last ) )

[JeffT]

There should have been more signs. WAY more signs. And the hotel layout map should have been part of the schedule book.

Agreed on the signs, and I'm sorry about that. I didn't realize how critical this was and unfortunately a few last-minute difficulties decreased the number of signs I was able to print. I'm sure this will be much improved for next year and I've talked with the person who will be most likely the Publicity Director for next year about ways to greatly improve this.

The hotel map, however, was located in both books.

[@random]

Has anyone thought of perhaps some kind of online stream?  I'm just throwing this out there because I'm going to be straight up honest...the "con meetings" are terrible.  The fact that a 20 minute youtube video can be uploaded and basically explains the ENTIRE meeting really does not make me want to spend the money and gas to go to such meetings that are outside of my city. 

But online streaming can be a viable option with things like ustream and what not

We tried Skype last year.  We often had techinical problems with it and only ONE person ever tried to Skype into our meetings.  Detailed minutes are posted by our handsome Secretary. 

Not Skype.  Ustream.  Just so that people can actually see it and watch it. 

Ok - What equipment, subscription costs and tech expertise would be needed for this?  It would have to be run by people who commit to coming to every single meeting early and having it set up on time.  

We tried to find people to be General Meeting Tech Staff last year and never found a single willing person.  What tech there is is done by the execs.  

Webcam.  Thats it lol. Well..sound is usually nice too :-p

But ustream tv is pretty much the big name in things now, that and justin tv

If you can get it up and running, that would be wonderful.

One of the major obstacles that would keep me from rejoining staff ('04, '05) is the impracticality of making regular trips from Seattle to Portland. And I would imagine there are a number of people in the same boat.

[XFD]

I got a great response about why the convention can't split into two for next year for age group centric things, but how about this:

Given that the con is stuck at the Hilton, and the lack of space for everyone is non existant, what about stretching the days the con runs out a bit further and then weigh out age-group oriented content for crowd control. So, for the sake of argument, say Day 1 starts on Saturday. Saturday is all emphasized for the really young group. All of the viewing rooms, panels and such are targeted at this group. Sunday is setup to be about 50% kiddie, and then the other is the teen group. Monday becomes 1/2 early teen content and 1/2 mature teen (hahahahah) content, finally Tuesday would be 1/2 mature teen and then adult/18+ content.

Sell two flavors of badges. The K badge would be valid for Sat/Sun, the G(eneral) badge would be valid Sun/Mon and the last badge would be S(uper/whatever) Monday/tuesday.

1. Keeps it in a single weekend.
2. Manages crowd & flow control
3. Keeps scheduling more relaxed
4. Makes the Yojimbo's job easier since the badge criteria is far more simple.
5. Deals with being at the same hotel again.

[oslapedo]

That would complicate things so much. So if an adult, a child and a teenager all go to the con and share a room together they'll have to stay for all three days but won't actually get to do anything on some days? Hm...

[XFD]

People have organized rooms with greater challenges before.

If the teen is chained to the parent, they're likely to be in the mid group, and the parent is going to be keeping the youngest child in tow (assuming all 3 are a part of the family). The teen could do something for one day or decide to tag along for all the child-oriented content.

The older teens with more freedom are far less likely to have this constraint.

[Himeno]

I got a great response about why the convention can't split into two for next year for age group centric things, but how about this:

Given that the con is stuck at the Hilton, and the lack of space for everyone is non existant, what about stretching the days the con runs out a bit further and then weigh out age-group oriented content for crowd control. So, for the sake of argument, say Day 1 starts on Saturday. Saturday is all emphasized for the really young group. All of the viewing rooms, panels and such are targeted at this group. Sunday is setup to be about 50% kiddie, and then the other is the teen group. Monday becomes 1/2 early teen content and 1/2 mature teen (hahahahah) content, finally Tuesday would be 1/2 mature teen and then adult/18+ content.

Sell two flavors of badges. The K badge would be valid for Sat/Sun, the G(eneral) badge would be valid Sun/Mon and the last badge would be S(uper/whatever) Monday/tuesday.

1. Keeps it in a single weekend.
2. Manages crowd & flow control
3. Keeps scheduling more relaxed
4. Makes the Yojimbo's job easier since the badge criteria is far more simple.
5. Deals with being at the same hotel again.

I can think of so many reasons why that wouldn't work. Adding another day without the staff to support it is just one of them.

[Silvamord]

I'm sure another person adding to the mountain of complaints will not really help matters, but I really feel I need to tell someone about this and I see the oppertunity.

This is my 4th consecutive year going to Kumoricon, so suffice to say I've had my share of experiences here. In past years, I've seen the overcrowding, the bad parking, the less than friendly hotel staff, etc... but this year was the absolutely worst... In fact, it was so bad that I didn't spend 1 full day at the convention this weekend. I brought my boyfriend with me, who had never been to a convention before, and I was almost ashamed of taking him to it! I could rant all day about it, because I sure did on Monday to one of my friends, but I think it'd be more effective if I put it in a more legible format;

The hotel was horrible because:

• The staff was not friendly
• The location was difficult to find without Mapquest.
• Parking, however many garages there were, was difficult to remember.
• There were many transients hanging around the hotel begging for money because it was in the heart of downtown.
• The hotel was cramped in the lobby, hallways, bathrooms, and sidewalk. In fact, the only place it wasn't cramped was in the vendors garage
• Navigation was more challenging than in recent years. Myself and several people I spoke to were having a hard time locating events, panels, and rooms. Between the ballroom level, 1st floor, 2nd floor, 3rd floor, kareoke floor, and the executive tower, it was difficult to find anything!
• One or two events got moved without the pocket guides being updated! I tried to find something in the creation station and even the staff member I talked to didn't know that it had been moved from the 3rd floor to the executive tower! So I missed the event... I understand the website had updates, but that didn't help me when I was walking around K-con and there was no signage.
• The small staircase you had to take to get to the 3rd floor without using the elevator was difficult to find and very cramped
• Unlike in some recent years, there was no nearby park (that concrete/brick open area does not classify as a park!) within convenient distance. Due to this, most of the con-goers were loitering on the sidewalks and blocking entrances, which the hotel staff voiced their problems with often.
• As if navigation was not difficult enough, there were specific 'routes' set up in the hotel to get to/from places. I understand this stops congestion in areas like escalators, but it made the roundabout navigation even more confusing!
• Although the area is awesome, it was difficult to navigate around town even with the map! But maybe that's just my groups problem...

Ticketed Events:

• Yes, this cuts down wait time and line congestion
• I couldn't get a straight answer from anyone on where to get tickets!
• By the time I did get to the booth for tickets, they were out of the ones I wanted!
• I feel bad for people who don't attend the first day and/or don't attend early mornings, because they probably didn't get any tickets either
• I overheard many people talking about similar problems that I had!
• Although the concept is cool, it severaly limits fun activities when you don't have the ability to get the tickets ahead of time.

Other problems I noticed:

• I don't know what was going on with the photobooth, but my group waited in line around 60 minutes and still didn't make it to the front of the line! The hallway was hot from lack of AC, narrow, and there were some people in front of us saying they'd been waiting quite a bit longer than us. We got so frustrated, we left and never did get a photo.
• Events (that weren't ticketed) were badly scheduled and lacking in variety. Several times, my group could either not find the event we wanted to attend or there were no events that weren't full. Most of the time, we ended up just sitting around and waiting for an event.
• Even sitting around became a problem, due to the dreaded 'no loitering/blocking/sitting' areas. So you just ended up with a bunch of people standing around.

I liked the convention space we had in 08, conventiently located next to Lloyd Center Mall so there was ample parking, a mall food court, and a massive park right across the street! Sure, it was crowded, but that's why everyone just went outside or into the mall! I even liked the Vancouver Hilton, because Ester Short Park was right across the street and that absorbed much of the crowd when things got congested. I sincerely hope that if they're truely planning to have K-con 2010 in the same location, that things shape up dramatically, otherwise I know several people who may be considering skipping next year...




Again, sorry if this is a bit of a rant! But K-con 09 has got to be the worst one I've ever attended!

[Silvamord]

I got a great response about why the convention can't split into two for next year for age group centric things, but how about this:

Given that the con is stuck at the Hilton, and the lack of space for everyone is non existant, what about stretching the days the con runs out a bit further and then weigh out age-group oriented content for crowd control. So, for the sake of argument, say Day 1 starts on Saturday. Saturday is all emphasized for the really young group. All of the viewing rooms, panels and such are targeted at this group. Sunday is setup to be about 50% kiddie, and then the other is the teen group. Monday becomes 1/2 early teen content and 1/2 mature teen (hahahahah) content, finally Tuesday would be 1/2 mature teen and then adult/18+ content.

Sell two flavors of badges. The K badge would be valid for Sat/Sun, the G(eneral) badge would be valid Sun/Mon and the last badge would be S(uper/whatever) Monday/tuesday.

1. Keeps it in a single weekend.
2. Manages crowd & flow control
3. Keeps scheduling more relaxed
4. Makes the Yojimbo's job easier since the badge criteria is far more simple.
5. Deals with being at the same hotel again.

The biggest problem is that many people don't want to buy multiple badges. Everyone I know buys the full badge, so they can attend all three days. Only being able to attend 2 would mean buying 2 badges (one for Sat/Sun, and one for Mon/Tues) and that would get costly.
In support of keeping it in one weekend, many people can only go because it's Labor Day weekend and a national holiday. People have jobs, especially people in my age group, and we can't miss work for a convention.

[DancingTofu]

• Unlike in some recent years, there was no nearby park (that concrete/brick open area does not classify as a park!) within convenient distance. Due to this, most of the con-goers were loitering on the sidewalks and blocking entrances, which the hotel staff voiced their problems with often.

The park blocks; 5 full city blocks of lush, green parks, were a block and a half south and west, in that order.  Lowns Dale Square was 2 block east and 1 block south.  Neighboring that, Chapman Square.  6 blocks east, the expansive and Beautiful Portland Waterfront Park.  The area you're referring to is Pioneer Courthouse square, which is a fantastic location to hang out, relax, and socialize.

Could you at least peek at google maps before making claims like this?  Just because nobody told you about them doesn't mean they don't exist.  You could have asked around.  No PSU student could possible not be able to tell you about the Park Blocks at the very least, and PSU students are definitely not difficult to find at Kumoricon.  Portland is one of the most heavily forested major metropolitan areas in the world.  Being more than a few blocks from a park is nearly impossible.  I live in inner Portland and there are EIGHT parks within twenty minutes walking distance from my house, and these are just the ones that I happen to be aware of.

[Sakis01]

I know there have been several conversations about different subject of this matter, but I'm just putting my opinion out cause I think that it seems natural to let out some steam about the Hilton.
I honestly wasn't aware of staff rudeness, but I have heard stories from my friends that were offended by how they were treated.
The worst thing that did happen was the rave. I had several girls who were minors that were really excited about going, but it seemed like the staff extended the time for the rave to start so they can avoid minors going. I have my girls go up to the room alone and unhappy for waiting a few hours in the rain.

[Slash5150]

I don't really know if this is the place to post this, but I'm more than willing to throw my hat into the ring for director of photography for next years K-con.  It A) guarantees me returning, as I'm sure many people are happy that I would be, and B) I do this at school.  I run the layout, design and pretty much the photography aspect for my paper so I know what I'm doing.

[XFD]

The biggest problem is that many people don't want to buy multiple badges. Everyone I know buys the full badge, so they can attend all three days. Only being able to attend 2 would mean buying 2 badges (one for Sat/Sun, and one for Mon/Tues) and that would get costly.
In support of keeping it in one weekend, many people can only go because it's Labor Day weekend and a national holiday. People have jobs, especially people in my age group, and we can't miss work for a convention.

The intent is that the purchaser of one particular badge won't get anything out of buying another badge. They buy the one badge that covers the days of relevant content. Would you rather have one-and-a-half days of full content that you're interested in, or would you instead have that same content spread out over 3 days? You're getting the same core content in either case. Maybe break it out into two badge classes and weigh it appropriately.

So let's express the problem in terms of constraints.
1. The current hotel cannot handle the capacity.
2. The convention is suck at this hotel for next year.

The staff have zero control about #2, so the only parameter they can play with is part #1. Controlling con-goer flow is going to be one of the best options. It's a simple example of fluid dynamics. If you stuff more of the control fluid (attendees) into a fixed volume (hotel) you get a compressed fluid (unhappy con people getting squished.)

So what would your solution be?

[Kurohime]

I'm amazed at how many people didn't seem to know there was a food court and large park within a block or two of the convention.  It was on the map! 

I really don't like the idea of multiple badges.  Splitting content focus to different days might work though- a manga day, a costuming day, a sports-like activities day... maybe.  Seemed like a lot of the stuff I wanted to see (and this has happened every year) runs at the same time, leaving me seeing half the stuff I want, with periods of nothing in between.  I suppose this gives me time to lounge and gawk at cosplayers. 

[Rathany]

I don't really know if this is the place to post this, but I'm more than willing to throw my hat into the ring for director of photography for next years K-con.  It A) guarantees me returning, as I'm sure many people are happy that I would be, and B) I do this at school.  I run the layout, design and pretty much the photography aspect for my paper so I know what I'm doing.

Photography is not a director level position.  All photography positions are lower than coordinator.   

[nikkiolie]

After actually sitting and thinking about it. The con wasn't that bad. Yeah the hotel staff wasn't the friendliest but once you figured out what they wanted it was easy to stay on their good side. My biggest issue was the elevators and from what I understand that has already been brought up with the hotel staff and they are looking at finding a better way to deal with it.

I'm not really sure what everyone elses problem is, it just seems like the hotel staff. But if you actually listened to them they had a valid point. They were trying to keep walk ways clear so people could get through easisly, then I hear people complaining about the lobby being too crowded. Its kinda funny when people are complaining about both. Obviously they were not following directions.

And as for the hotel staff being rude I think the same could be said for con goers as well. I saw a lot of people at the con treating the hotel staff like crap. As a person who has planed some events with 60+ people it is hard to control that many. These hotel staff were trying to control about 6000+ people. Cut them some slack. I was talking to one of the bell hops saying that he must be excited that we were going and he said we was actually sad. They mostly only get business men coming through there so this was a pleasant change. So if they mostly get business men then it is typically quite around the hotel. They are not used to 300+ screaming immature kids running around.

[AllyKat]

@Rathany:

OH! I remember seeing that on the list... I think we were gonna try and look that up and see what it was about but....
My hotel-mates came back with more Ramune and then there was mass hysteria in my room over the fact that I
had never had Ramune before....

This is what happens to a bunch of 20 somethings when all they consume is sugar... the attention span goes out
the window. Although that is a cute name! I like it! ^_^ I think the main issue was... people don't speak Japanese!
 

~Allykat

[Jamiche]

• Navigation was more challenging than in recent years. Myself and several people I spoke to were having a hard time locating events, panels, and rooms. Between the ballroom level, 1st floor, 2nd floor, 3rd floor, kareoke floor, and the executive tower, it was difficult to find anything!
• One or two events got moved without the pocket guides being updated! I tried to find something in the creation station and even the staff member I talked to didn't know that it had been moved from the 3rd floor to the executive tower! So I missed the event... I understand the website had updates, but that didn't help me when I was walking around K-con and there was no signage.

No event was moved.  It seems that there was some confusion with the difference between Creation Station Workshop and Workshop (and we will work on clarifying that for next year), but no panels were moved.

And navigation has always been an issue.. the first year we were at the Doubletree we heard the same complaints (how many people remember how hard it was to find the Executive Meeting Center?).

Ticketed Events:

• Yes, this cuts down wait time and line congestion
• I couldn't get a straight answer from anyone on where to get tickets!
• By the time I did get to the booth for tickets, they were out of the ones I wanted!
• I feel bad for people who don't attend the first day and/or don't attend early mornings, because they probably didn't get any tickets either
• I overheard many people talking about similar problems that I had!
• Although the concept is cool, it severaly limits fun activities when you don't have the ability to get the tickets ahead of time.

Certain events are ticketed because a) we know they are popular, and b) we have limited seating (which became even more of an issue with the fire code restrictions).  The concept behind ticketing the events is so that people are not waiting in line for hours, only to discover that you cannot get into the event.  It was stated in both the pocket guide and con book that in order to get the tickets, you had to go to Info Booth.  Tickets are released day of the event so people an opportunity to get them, and not have them all snatched up first day.

• I don't know what was going on with the photobooth, but my group waited in line around 60 minutes and still didn't make it to the front of the line! The hallway was hot from lack of AC, narrow, and there were some people in front of us saying they'd been waiting quite a bit longer than us. We got so frustrated, we left and never did get a photo.
• Events (that weren't ticketed) were badly scheduled and lacking in variety. Several times, my group could either not find the event we wanted to attend or there were no events that weren't full. Most of the time, we ended up just sitting around and waiting for an event.

The photobooth was popular, and it was a drop in event.  I do not know how the shoots were scheduled/handled.. I will talk to the photographer and see what we can do about next year.

As for other panels... the majority of the panels that run at Kumoricon are fan run.. meaning that you, the attendees put on the panels.  Want to see something in particular? Run it.. we are more than happy to assist you in anyway.  We try to provide a variety of panels, and some are staff run, but the majority come from you.

And guys, as unhappy as you all are about the Hilton, and want to go back to the Doubletree, keep in mind that if we are too big for the Hilton, we are definitely too big for the Doubletree.  Yes, there was the park and the mall to take up some of the slack there, but we had the same thing at the Hilton, but because of the rain, no one took advantage of it.

[murder_of_raven]

The intent is that the purchaser of one particular badge won't get anything out of buying another badge. They buy the one badge that covers the days of relevant content. Would you rather have one-and-a-half days of full content that you're interested in, or would you instead have that same content spread out over 3 days? You're getting the same core content in either case. Maybe break it out into two badge classes and weigh it appropriately.

Honestly, I thought this idea would be immediately rejected so I'm just now weighing in on it. I personally would be very very displeased if I were paying the same price (or more, considering badge price usually increases each year) for literally half the convention. In fact, for people like me who will have to commute from somewhere else to go to Kurmoricon, I'm positive I wouldn't think 1.5 days were worth the trouble.

But those are both personal problems. The big one I see is how do you decide what is/isn't content for a specific age group. I bet if you did careful statistical analysis you'd find that things like the Cosplay, AMV, and Cosplay Chess Contests were all pretty split amongst demographics. If you decide that they're only open to one than people who are suddenly not able to go to their favorite event are going to be very angry.

Also, do we really have enough young children to warrant even a partial day solely devoted to them? And who would watch after them if not their parents? Would parents have to buy two badges or would they effectively get two (or three if they also have a young teenager) for free?

It's a cute idea on the surface but I think it's entirely logistically impossible.

[Rathany]

The intent is that the purchaser of one particular badge won't get anything out of buying another badge. They buy the one badge that covers the days of relevant content. Would you rather have one-and-a-half days of full content that you're interested in, or would you instead have that same content spread out over 3 days? You're getting the same core content in either case. Maybe break it out into two badge classes and weigh it appropriately.

Honestly, I thought this idea would be immediately rejected so I'm just now weighing in on it. I personally would be very very displeased if I were paying the same price (or more, considering badge price usually increases each year) for literally half the convention. In fact, for people like me who will have to commute from somewhere else to go to Kurmoricon, I'm positive I wouldn't think 1.5 days were worth the trouble.

But those are both personal problems. The big one I see is how do you decide what is/isn't content for a specific age group. I bet if you did careful statistical analysis you'd find that things like the Cosplay, AMV, and Cosplay Chess Contests were all pretty split amongst demographics. If you decide that they're only open to one than people who are suddenly not able to go to their favorite event are going to be very angry.

Also, do we really have enough young children to warrant even a partial day solely devoted to them? And who would watch after them if not their parents? Would parents have to buy two badges or would they effectively get two (or three if they also have a young teenager) for free?

It's a cute idea on the surface but I think it's entirely logistically impossible.

Just for clarification, this is not being considered by the Board.  I've talked with the person proposing it via PM to go over the problems with it.  It was an idea, we consider all ideas   This one doesn't work for us. 

[Jamiche]

The worst thing that did happen was the rave. I had several girls who were minors that were really excited about going, but it seemed like the staff extended the time for the rave to start so they can avoid minors going. I have my girls go up to the room alone and unhappy for waiting a few hours in the rain.

This was not a deliberate choice on the part of staff.  The concert ran long, and with time it took to changeover to the dance it was decided that by the time the minors got to the dance they would just have to leave, so minors were not allowed into the dance.

We did not set out to ruin anyone's fun.  It was unfortunate that the concert ran long, and we dealt with it the best we could.  And before this starts another round of "why aren't the dances earlier", that has been answered in other threads.  The short answer is lots of big events, not much big event space.  Things are scheduled to try to fit everyone in, and unfortunately we can't please everybody.

[@random]

The biggest problem is that many people don't want to buy multiple badges. Everyone I know buys the full badge, so they can attend all three days. Only being able to attend 2 would mean buying 2 badges (one for Sat/Sun, and one for Mon/Tues) and that would get costly.
In support of keeping it in one weekend, many people can only go because it's Labor Day weekend and a national holiday. People have jobs, especially people in my age group, and we can't miss work for a convention.

The intent is that the purchaser of one particular badge won't get anything out of buying another badge. They buy the one badge that covers the days of relevant content. Would you rather have one-and-a-half days of full content that you're interested in, or would you instead have that same content spread out over 3 days? You're getting the same core content in either case. Maybe break it out into two badge classes and weigh it appropriately.

So let's express the problem in terms of constraints.
1. The current hotel cannot handle the capacity.
2. The convention is suck at this hotel for next year.

The staff have zero control about #2, so the only parameter they can play with is part #1. Controlling con-goer flow is going to be one of the best options. It's a simple example of fluid dynamics. If you stuff more of the control fluid (attendees) into a fixed volume (hotel) you get a compressed fluid (unhappy con people getting squished.)

So what would your solution be?

The Yoji Escort Service, of course! 

It might sound like it, but it's not the same as a Host Club. (waits for the disappointed "Awwww"s to die down.) Rather, it would be a few combination guide/chaperones who can walk groups to and from set destinations like the parks, with a few who stay at those destinations.

Even though Yoji's are just normal people with no authority once they step off con grounds, I'm sure a lot of people would feel better about having an adult with them when they go outside. Especially if they're adults who have some training in nonconfrontational ways to defuse nasty situations, and are able to liaise with the Portland Police if things really go south.

I know it's easier to say than do something like this, especially with staff being short as it is. But the payoff from getting large crowds out of the hotel and into the local parks for photos / hanging out would be big.

Alternate proposal: Designate certain spots as meetup locations for people to form groups to go out, and you'd only need Yojis at the locations. Troublemakers tend to leave mobile groups alone.

[DarkStar]

Even though Yoji's are just normal people with no authority once they step off con grounds, I'm sure a lot of people would feel better about having an adult with them when they go outside. Especially if they're adults who have some training in nonconfrontational ways to defuse nasty situations, and are able to liaise with the Portland Police if things really go south.

I know it's easier to say than do something like this, especially with staff being short as it is. But the payoff from getting large crowds out of the hotel and into the local parks for photos / hanging out would be big.

Alternate proposal: Designate certain spots as meetup locations for people to form groups to go out, and you'd only need Yojis at the locations. Troublemakers tend to leave mobile groups alone.

I think your running into a huge liability if "con-staff" is "escorting" attendees outside of the hotels. If something was to happen to the attendees (think of the worst), the convention would be held liable in court.

If a group, wholly independent of Kumoricon, wants to work out a program to escort people in Portland, I would hope the first thing they do is research the insurance and liability requirements of security guards in the City of Portland. It's a nice idea, but I wouldn't be willing to risk the future of Kumoricon on it.

[Slash5150]

I don't really know if this is the place to post this, but I'm more than willing to throw my hat into the ring for director of photography for next years K-con.  It A) guarantees me returning, as I'm sure many people are happy that I would be, and B) I do this at school.  I run the layout, design and pretty much the photography aspect for my paper so I know what I'm doing.

Photography is not a director level position.  All photography positions are lower than coordinator.   

Either or.  All I know is that I run this kind of thing (photography and all that stuff) At school so I know what I am doing.

[@random]

Even though Yoji's are just normal people with no authority once they step off con grounds, I'm sure a lot of people would feel better about having an adult with them when they go outside. Especially if they're adults who have some training in nonconfrontational ways to defuse nasty situations, and are able to liaise with the Portland Police if things really go south.

I know it's easier to say than do something like this, especially with staff being short as it is. But the payoff from getting large crowds out of the hotel and into the local parks for photos / hanging out would be big.

Alternate proposal: Designate certain spots as meetup locations for people to form groups to go out, and you'd only need Yojis at the locations. Troublemakers tend to leave mobile groups alone.

I think your running into a huge liability if "con-staff" is "escorting" attendees outside of the hotels. If something was to happen to the attendees (think of the worst), the convention would be held liable in court.

If a group, wholly independent of Kumoricon, wants to work out a program to escort people in Portland, I would hope the first thing they do is research the insurance and liability requirements of security guards in the City of Portland. It's a nice idea, but I wouldn't be willing to risk the future of Kumoricon on it.

If what you're saying is true, it still wouldn't rule out establishing designated meeting spots for groups to gather before heading out.

I'd be interested to hear what someone familiar with liability law has to say, though - it would seem that a standard disclaimer that the con cannot be held liable for what happens outside conspace, prominently posted next to the established spots, would suffice. Heck, we already have such a disclaimer for conspace itself.

[Rathany]

Even though Yoji's are just normal people with no authority once they step off con grounds, I'm sure a lot of people would feel better about having an adult with them when they go outside. Especially if they're adults who have some training in nonconfrontational ways to defuse nasty situations, and are able to liaise with the Portland Police if things really go south.

I know it's easier to say than do something like this, especially with staff being short as it is. But the payoff from getting large crowds out of the hotel and into the local parks for photos / hanging out would be big.

Alternate proposal: Designate certain spots as meetup locations for people to form groups to go out, and you'd only need Yojis at the locations. Troublemakers tend to leave mobile groups alone.

I think your running into a huge liability if "con-staff" is "escorting" attendees outside of the hotels. If something was to happen to the attendees (think of the worst), the convention would be held liable in court.

If a group, wholly independent of Kumoricon, wants to work out a program to escort people in Portland, I would hope the first thing they do is research the insurance and liability requirements of security guards in the City of Portland. It's a nice idea, but I wouldn't be willing to risk the future of Kumoricon on it.

If what you're saying is true, it still wouldn't rule out establishing designated meeting spots for groups to gather before heading out.

I'd be interested to hear what someone familiar with liability law has to say, though - it would seem that a standard disclaimer that the con cannot be held liable for what happens outside conspace, prominently posted next to the established spots, would suffice. Heck, we already have such a disclaimer for conspace itself.

It might be possible, if the meeting point was within con space.  But, yeah, the legal side would have to be looked into. 

[AllyKat]

Liability Law:

No matter how many waivers you sign; someone is always going to find a way to sue
you if they really want to. Even if there is a warning posted saying a company is
not responsible for lost or damaged goods, in the event they did not do "enough" to
prevent the crime or event, a company can be held liable.

In this day and age no good deed is safe from being filed suit against.

~Allykat

[Asylymescapeie]

Nice  I like that one. I agree one way or another some one always gets sued.

[murder_of_raven]

No matter how many waivers you sign; someone is always going to find a way to sue
you if they really want to. Even if there is a warning posted saying a company is
not responsible for lost or damaged goods, in the event they did not do "enough" to
prevent the crime or event, a company can be held liable.

That's a really cynical and incorrect description of liability law. The fact of the matter is that, whether or not you claim you aren't liable for something with a giant flashing neon sign, that doesn't excuse you from legal obligation. In the situation you just cited businesses /are/ liable for lost and damaged goods, so said sign doesn't excuse them from that.

[XFD]

No matter how many waivers you sign; someone is always going to find a way to sue
you if they really want to. Even if there is a warning posted saying a company is
not responsible for lost or damaged goods, in the event they did not do "enough" to
prevent the crime or event, a company can be held liable.

That's a really cynical and incorrect description of liability law. The fact of the matter is that, whether or not you claim you aren't liable for something with a giant flashing neon sign, that doesn't excuse you from legal obligation. In the situation you just cited businesses /are/ liable for lost and damaged goods, so said sign doesn't excuse them from that.

Source?

[Silvamord]

• Unlike in some recent years, there was no nearby park (that concrete/brick open area does not classify as a park!) within convenient distance. Due to this, most of the con-goers were loitering on the sidewalks and blocking entrances, which the hotel staff voiced their problems with often.

The park blocks; 5 full city blocks of lush, green parks, were a block and a half south and west, in that order.  Lowns Dale Square was 2 block east and 1 block south.  Neighboring that, Chapman Square.  6 blocks east, the expansive and Beautiful Portland Waterfront Park.  The area you're referring to is Pioneer Courthouse square, which is a fantastic location to hang out, relax, and socialize.

Could you at least peek at google maps before making claims like this?  Just because nobody told you about them doesn't mean they don't exist.  You could have asked around.  No PSU student could possible not be able to tell you about the Park Blocks at the very least, and PSU students are definitely not difficult to find at Kumoricon.  Portland is one of the most heavily forested major metropolitan areas in the world.  Being more than a few blocks from a park is nearly impossible.  I live in inner Portland and there are EIGHT parks within twenty minutes walking distance from my house, and these are just the ones that I happen to be aware of.

I'm not saying there weren't any there, I'm saying that nobody went to them. I passed a few while walking the area during the con, but there didn't seem to be nearly as many people at them as there were in the cons that had a park directly across the street. It just seemed like the locations of the parks and malls were inconvenient, not impossible to get to.

[Silvamord]

The biggest problem is that many people don't want to buy multiple badges. Everyone I know buys the full badge, so they can attend all three days. Only being able to attend 2 would mean buying 2 badges (one for Sat/Sun, and one for Mon/Tues) and that would get costly.
In support of keeping it in one weekend, many people can only go because it's Labor Day weekend and a national holiday. People have jobs, especially people in my age group, and we can't miss work for a convention.

The intent is that the purchaser of one particular badge won't get anything out of buying another badge. They buy the one badge that covers the days of relevant content. Would you rather have one-and-a-half days of full content that you're interested in, or would you instead have that same content spread out over 3 days? You're getting the same core content in either case. Maybe break it out into two badge classes and weigh it appropriately.

So let's express the problem in terms of constraints.
1. The current hotel cannot handle the capacity.
2. The convention is suck at this hotel for next year.

The staff have zero control about #2, so the only parameter they can play with is part #1. Controlling con-goer flow is going to be one of the best options. It's a simple example of fluid dynamics. If you stuff more of the control fluid (attendees) into a fixed volume (hotel) you get a compressed fluid (unhappy con people getting squished.)

So what would your solution be?

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I'd only buy a badge if it meant I could go to the entire con. Every day of it. Otherwise, I would have just bought a 1-day pass. If it came down to the point that I could buy a pass, but it was only good for maybe 50-75% of the convention, I don't really know if I would be too happy about buying a badge at all. There are fun events throughout the entire convention and I'd be a bit disappointed knowing I'd have to miss an entire day.

As for the hotel, I understand that the con staff doesn't really have much say over where it will be held next year. I know they're going to do their best to make next year even better. I just think, for future reference if nothing else, that the heart of a major downtown area like that is a bit too crowded for a convention like that. Everything is compact and cramped.

[murder_of_raven]

Source?

Unfortunately you are asking me to cite a /lack/ of law. I could cite the lawyer-person I heard this from (if I could locate that video) but that would be another logic argument. The point being made is that specifically a /statement/ of non-liability is completely separate from an actual lack of liability, which is why people are sued despite them.

I too am disappointed in my inability to cite anything and would gladly concede if someone could present a factual source. If I manage to remember my source and find it again, I will of course post it. Unfortunately, it could have also been a live panel (which I tend to confuse with videos of live panels, which I watch often) so this might be impossible.

[Silvamord]

Source?

Unfortunately you are asking me to cite a /lack/ of law. I could cite the lawyer-person I heard this from (if I could locate that video) but that would be another logic argument. The point being made is that specifically a /statement/ of non-liability is completely separate from an actual lack of liability, which is why people are sued despite them.

I too am disappointed in my inability to cite anything and would gladly concede if someone could present a factual source. If I manage to remember my source and find it again, I will of course post it. Unfortunately, it could have also been a live panel (which I tend to confuse with videos of live panels, which I watch often) so this might be impossible.

I'm not familiar with liability in Portland, but I do know a tiny bit about liability in Washington. At least, informally. No matter how many times you post 'Kumioricon and/or it's staff/affiliates/attendees are not liable for any mishaps that occures on their outings', if anything major happened (a mugging, assault, etc) then they could still be taken to court. The guardian (assuming it's a minor) would likely pull both Kumoricon and the yoji/staff that was presant to court for negligence. I really doubt that anyone wants to sign a liability waiver, and even then it could get sticky if a major problem were to arise.

To touch base on the other option, however, I feel a lot of the problems I experienced this last convention could be reduced (if not resolved) by marking suggested ('designated' would probably link to liability if something happened there) grouping areas. Marking these areas on the map with an easily recognizable symbol would be very helpful. I do think, however, any minors without an adult escort may be a bit hesitant to leave the hotel unless it's within a 1 block area... but that's a different issue.

[XFD]

The original claim is that no amount of measure could absolve a party of liability. It would normally then break out into either case law or legislative. The legislative would explicitly state limitations of liability while the sticky one is case law. It is in case law where the problems emerge, from the hot coffee being hot to the ridiculous Chewbacca defense. Exceptions, exemptions and bears, oh my. The whole legal (not justice) system is wrought with loop holes that are waiting exploitation; unless you have law to explicitly stating your limitations, I think it's a very fine short-form expression of the liability issue. - Defaulting to the worst case is the best method of covering your backside.

[Silvamord]

The original claim is that no amount of measure could absolve a party of liability. It would normally then break out into either case law or legislative. The legislative would explicitly state limitations of liability while the sticky one is case law. It is in case law where the problems emerge, from the hot coffee being hot to the ridiculous Chewbacca defense. Exceptions, exemptions and bears, oh my. The whole legal (not justice) system is wrought with loop holes that are waiting exploitation; unless you have law to explicitly stating your limitations, I think it's a very fine short-form expression of the liability issue. - Defaulting to the worst case is the best method of covering your backside.

Very well said!

[Slash5150]

Well, just going by the hilton fact sheet thing for portland, taking all the rooms in the main hotel in terms of numbers, the max capacity is 2806, but could probably get away with sneaking in 3500, at any given time, so really the only thing that could be done, to play nice with the fire marshals is to go like this.

Factoring in 250 for staff/guests/vendors etc. that gives you 3250 spots left.

250 MAX goes to VIP giving you 3000 spots.

Now these are the two options that can be done.

Option A) Kumoricon goes into an online pre-registration format with no in person registration.  This would A) Take a lot off the backs of people who have to deal with tons of people registering, and B) hopefully streamline the process a lot.  Unfortunately, this takes away from people being able to walk in off the street and come to con.  But throw in a pretty nice discount for the first 4 months, bump the price up the next four, then go regular price the last 4.

Option B) Kumoricon makes online registration and caps it at X. The last (3000-X) spots will be devoted to DAILY passes that will go on a FCFS basis to anyone who decides they want to be part of the con off the street.  

Honestly, I believe that con is going to have to turn people away next year just because of the way the Hilton is laid out along with the fire marshal.  And you also have to remember that these numbers are assuming that NO ONE ELSE is staying in the hotel.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Also, wouldn't Con be able to get around the law by having something stated at signups saying something like "Kumoricon is open 24 hours, you may request and escort to your vehicle but the Hilton, nor Kumoricon is liable if anything happens" or something like that.

[XFD]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I'd only buy a badge if it meant I could go to the entire con. Every day of it. Otherwise, I would have just bought a 1-day pass. If it came down to the point that I could buy a pass, but it was only good for maybe 50-75% of the convention, I don't really know if I would be too happy about buying a badge at all. There are fun events throughout the entire convention and I'd be a bit disappointed knowing I'd have to miss an entire day.

As for the hotel, I understand that the con staff doesn't really have much say over where it will be held next year. I know they're going to do their best to make next year even better. I just think, for future reference if nothing else, that the heart of a major downtown area like that is a bit too crowded for a convention like that. Everything is compact and cramped.

Not exactly. Let's go for really really extreme examples into 3 day segments. For numbers, lets say there are 9000 attendees.

Content per day of con:
Day 1: 12 hours of My little Pony, hello kitty, and Mr. Rogers.
Day 2: One piece, slayers, Ouran, DBZ, etc similar
Day 3: Jojo's Bizzare adventures, various over-the-top nuts Hentai etc.

Small kids have no place for day 3. They are also not really of age for the day 2 stuff. The kids (plus parents) make up 3000 members and are there for day 1. 10% of them stick around for day 2.

The teens come in for day 2. They come in 3000 members. - 3300 members at the con on day 2. 15% of the teens stick around for day 3.

Day 3: The mature group, 3000 strong. Add in the overflow of teens - 3450 attendees.

Net flow of attendees: 9000
Average daily membercount: 3250

It's sort of the RMS of the membership. I can sympathize with the con staff to a point, but with the core issue (space) being the scarce resource a consession will have to be made somewhere. Keep everything status quo, lose more people who are unhappy with being exceptionally packed into con congestion. Spread out the content and make it attendee-age-group specific, upset people who have all 3 kinds of attendees in their group; they won't bother. The base problem is that no one can keep filling the bucket with more water once it's full. You're going to have runoff.

[@random]

The original claim is that no amount of measure could absolve a party of liability. It would normally then break out into either case law or legislative. The legislative would explicitly state limitations of liability while the sticky one is case law. It is in case law where the problems emerge, from the hot coffee being hot to the ridiculous Chewbacca defense. Exceptions, exemptions and bears, oh my. The whole legal (not justice) system is wrought with loop holes that are waiting exploitation; unless you have law to explicitly stating your limitations, I think it's a very fine short-form expression of the liability issue. - Defaulting to the worst case is the best method of covering your backside.

Disagree on a fine point - if this were true, we couldn't even have a con. There are too many things staff can't control, but could theoretically be held responsible for.  I.e. a minor in heat wanders out of conspace with an adult attendee at night, something bad happens, and Kumoricon is held responsible in court. (#1 has happened, #2 is possible, and #3 is theoretically possible.)

Defaulting to the 90%-likely worst case is more reasonable. We can't foresee or prevent EVERYTHING, but we can eliminate all but the worst scenarios.

[@random]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I'd only buy a badge if it meant I could go to the entire con. Every day of it. Otherwise, I would have just bought a 1-day pass. If it came down to the point that I could buy a pass, but it was only good for maybe 50-75% of the convention, I don't really know if I would be too happy about buying a badge at all. There are fun events throughout the entire convention and I'd be a bit disappointed knowing I'd have to miss an entire day.

As for the hotel, I understand that the con staff doesn't really have much say over where it will be held next year. I know they're going to do their best to make next year even better. I just think, for future reference if nothing else, that the heart of a major downtown area like that is a bit too crowded for a convention like that. Everything is compact and cramped.

Not exactly. Let's go for really really extreme examples into 3 day segments. For numbers, lets say there are 9000 attendees.

Content per day of con:
Day 1: 12 hours of My little Pony, hello kitty, and Mr. Rogers.
Day 2: One piece, slayers, Ouran, DBZ, etc similar
Day 3: Jojo's Bizzare adventures, various over-the-top nuts Hentai etc.

Small kids have no place for day 3. They are also not really of age for the day 2 stuff. The kids (plus parents) make up 3000 members and are there for day 1. 10% of them stick around for day 2.

The teens come in for day 2. They come in 3000 members. - 3300 members at the con on day 2. 15% of the teens stick around for day 3.

Day 3: The mature group, 3000 strong. Add in the overflow of teens - 3450 attendees.

Net flow of attendees: 9000
Average daily membercount: 3250

It's sort of the RMS of the membership. I can sympathize with the con staff to a point, but with the core issue (space) being the scarce resource a consession will have to be made somewhere. Keep everything status quo, lose more people who are unhappy with being exceptionally packed into con congestion. Spread out the content and make it attendee-age-group specific, upset people who have all 3 kinds of attendees in their group; they won't bother. The base problem is that no one can keep filling the bucket with more water once it's full. You're going to have runoff.

Three major problems:
1) Who decides where to draw the lines on content? That would not be a fun job.
2) Would more than a tiny handful of staffers be willing to work during the kid-preteens day? They'd be dealing with a more unruly and obnoxious group, and without the reward of being able to meet old friends. Remember, staff are unpaid volunteers - try to force them into it, and you lose them.
3) As was stated earlier in the thread, this option isn't even on the table with the board. That kinda moots the point, I think.

[XFD]

Three major problems:
1) Who decides where to draw the lines on content? That would not be a fun job.
2) Would more than a tiny handful of staffers be willing to work during the kid-preteens day? They'd be dealing with a more unruly and obnoxious group, and without the reward of being able to meet old friends. Remember, staff are unpaid volunteers - try to force them into it, and you lose them.
3) As was stated earlier in the thread, this option isn't even on the table with the board. That kinda moots the point, I think.

1. Usually released stuff has an age rating. Most parents are too lazy to check it, but it's there. That makes that easy.
2. The con has made its bed with the given hotel. Now it has to sleep in it. There won't be a make-everyone-happy solution to the issue. Status quo will be a repeat of this year. Maybe interleave the staffers so their exposure to brats is limited (2 hour shifts for baby sitting while the rest of their time is spent on the rest of the con's setup)
3. Someone asked for clarification. Clarification given. If you don't like the idea, kill it in one go with an answer to this: how you make 6000 people happy who are unhappy right now, by repeating the same action? (Catch: drugs aren't allowed. )

[Rathany]

Three major problems:
1) Who decides where to draw the lines on content? That would not be a fun job.
2) Would more than a tiny handful of staffers be willing to work during the kid-preteens day? They'd be dealing with a more unruly and obnoxious group, and without the reward of being able to meet old friends. Remember, staff are unpaid volunteers - try to force them into it, and you lose them.
3) As was stated earlier in the thread, this option isn't even on the table with the board. That kinda moots the point, I think.

1. Usually released stuff has an age rating. Most parents are too lazy to check it, but it's there. That makes that easy.
2. The con has made its bed with the given hotel. Now it has to sleep in it. There won't be a make-everyone-happy solution to the issue. Status quo will be a repeat of this year. Maybe interleave the staffers so their exposure to brats is limited (2 hour shifts for baby sitting while the rest of their time is spent on the rest of the con's setup)
3. Someone asked for clarification. Clarification given. If you don't like the idea, kill it in one go with an answer to this: how you make 6000 people happy who are unhappy right now, by repeating the same action? (Catch: drugs aren't allowed. )

Well, the good news is that not everyone is unhappy.  I did random walkthroughs of the lobby on Monday and got no negative resposnes.  Granted, it was a very small sampling.  But you cannot judge the overall reaction to the con by the people complaining on the forums.  There will always be complaining in forums. 

Note: There are some very good reasons for complaints.  No one is dismissing that.  Those of you who love Kcon but are giving next year a miss, we hope to see you in 2011 and at mid-year events.  We respect your descision.  But, those with complaints are going to be much, much louder than others.  People are far more likely to  reg for a forum account to complain than to reg just to go 'hey yall, good times'. 

Re: next year being status quo.  Next year will not be like last year/2009.  After Saturday the hotel changed how they handled things and the problems died down a huge deal.  There are alot of people very commited to improving next year, and we would rather not have our dedication dismissed out of hand as ineffectual.  I don't know if that is what you meant, but, I do want to be clear on this issue.

Re: 6 part con with scaling up age rating.  I am pretty sure this will annoy and confuse the bulk of our attendees.  We can't even get the average attendee to read a short policy document, and you expect them to follow something this complex?  Also, what would I do about guests?  Almost all guest panels are meant to be for everyone.  I can spend tons'o'dough on a guest and only have each panel seen by a small portion of the attendees.  There are other problems with this system, but I am not going to get into all of them now. 

Ok, I am now off to sort through other threads to answer other questions.  Well, maybe after more caffine. 

[XFD]

I was leaving out the hotel staff part of the equation and purely operating on the attendee numbers problem. Again, the core problem defined: Too many people in an inadequate space. I never made claims that the staff was being lazy or in effectual and should not be taken into such context. In general, the fan response about the con staff has been highly positive. The Hotel staff was a factor that no con staff could influence until after the damage occurred. For the sake of perspective, speculate that the hotel staff and con staff were supremely kind, knew everything possible about where things were going on, etc. Deities. 6000 bodies in a cramped space is still 6000 bodies in a cramped space. This is what I am defining as status-quo. It is the only element of the puzzle that is independent from person-to-person interactions.

[@random]

Three major problems:
1) Who decides where to draw the lines on content? That would not be a fun job.
2) Would more than a tiny handful of staffers be willing to work during the kid-preteens day? They'd be dealing with a more unruly and obnoxious group, and without the reward of being able to meet old friends. Remember, staff are unpaid volunteers - try to force them into it, and you lose them.
3) As was stated earlier in the thread, this option isn't even on the table with the board. That kinda moots the point, I think.

1. Usually released stuff has an age rating. Most parents are too lazy to check it, but it's there. That makes that easy.
2. The con has made its bed with the given hotel. Now it has to sleep in it. There won't be a make-everyone-happy solution to the issue. Status quo will be a repeat of this year. Maybe interleave the staffers so their exposure to brats is limited (2 hour shifts for baby sitting while the rest of their time is spent on the rest of the con's setup)
3. Someone asked for clarification. Clarification given. If you don't like the idea, kill it in one go with an answer to this: how you make 6000 people happy who are unhappy right now, by repeating the same action? (Catch: drugs aren't allowed. )

2. That's rather callous, considering that when it comes down to it very few staffers are directly involved in location decisions. I even personally know a few who were really unhappy about the location back when the decision was made, because they could foresee the problems that arose. You're proposing to force those people to work a babysitting-job-from-Hades because "the con made its bed"? Even if you assume the false premise that all the staff are personally responsible for the location, the fact remains that staffing is volunteer. People aren't doing this because they're paid, they're doing it as a labor of love for their fellow attendees. You can't force volunteers to do something because you think it's right.

If you could, we wouldn't have such problems with staff burnout. Not enough people are willing to volunteer as it is, and the ones who do often work themselves to death - and that's with a con that's enjoyable to staff. Having enough staff to limit them to 2-hour shifts would be wonderful under normal circumstances, wild fantasy in this case.

If you think people are unhappy now?... That's nothing compared to how much more unhappy they would be with few events, no crowd control, and AX-esque lines. Push staff out the door, and that's what you would get.

[XFD]

Given the contractual obligation that the convention has, I'm addressing this in the whole scope of the situation, not as a personal attack that you seem to be believing it to be. This is not a case of putting blame on anyone, there is nothing to gain from blaming anyone- it's done. "The con has made its bed," means that it is contractually obligated for the next location. Nothing more, nothing less - there is nothing between the lines here.

The proposal suggested was one particular way of dealing with the numbers that are posing a problem. Since the con staff and volunteers are getting exhausted and/or burnt out serving 6000 people simultaneously, wouldn't it then make it easier dealing with 3000 at a time? If not, then there is another problem that is probably more severe than just the hotel capacity issue and even if this is true, it exists far outside the scope of my idea. If there are staff & volunteer issues with burn out, bring it up and get some attention on it.
 

[princessmoon]

Sure. I didn't have the best experience @ con this year, but I'm not going to abandon K-con.  I share similar experiences with other complaints... Anyways, I love it!  I can see that staff are listening (well, reading) many comments, ideas, and ways to improve the next con. I APPRECIATE THAT! THANK YOU! Not everyone can/will be happy about everything, but ya'll are making an effort....and you're not even getting paid :3

I just had a question. I thought I read somewhere in one of these threads that K-con is supported by previous year's revenue. Is that correct? So, K-con 2010 is support by this year K-con 2009 revenue? And if I attend (I will attend ^_^) K-con 2010, I am helping support K-con 2011?

thx.

[Rathany]

Sure. I didn't have the best experience @ con this year, but I'm not going to abandon K-con.  I share similar experiences with other complaints... Anyways, I love it!  I can see that staff are listening (well, reading) many comments, ideas, and ways to improve the next con. I APPRECIATE THAT! THANK YOU! Not everyone can/will be happy about everything, but ya'll are making an effort....and you're not even getting paid :3

I just had a question. I thought I read somewhere in one of these threads that K-con is supported by previous year's revenue. Is that correct? So, K-con 2010 is support by this year K-con 2009 revenue? And if I attend (I will attend ^_^) K-con 2010, I am helping support K-con 2011?

thx.

Hello.  Thank you so much.  It's so nice to read comments like this

Yes, we run on actual-profit from the previous con, not on projected-income from the upcoming con.  It's a very conservative way to approach con spending, but we like it.  So, yes, 2011 will be paid for by 2010 attendences. 

[Meganekko]

...
I.e. a minor in heat...

Wut?