My overall feel of Kcon '09

[Daxe]

Ill start out by saying, overall I had a good time. There were a lot of detracting factors, but there were some positive ones as well. Heres my personal score for your own reference.

Kcon Recognized Staff (Excluding Yojimbo)--3 out of 10
RUDE! RUDE! RUDE! Everytime I had the misfortune of being approached by your staff I felt I was mistreated, misunderstood, and just in general kicked around. Heres just a few cases.
- I went to visit the gaming room. I didnt get more than 2 steps in the door before a woman practically charged at me, shooing me out the door proclaiming that no one was allowed in unless they were part of the... she didnt even get the word tournament out before closing the door on my face.
- At the cosplay contest the maid in charge of our column took her job WAY too seriously. Yes, she got us seats. But we werent allowed to leave. A man seated behind me said he was waiting in line a really long time and asked if it was ok for him to go to the bathroom. The maid (in a rather snide voice) told him that he should "just hold it". My friend then said she really had to go too. The maid then said "Fine, Go. But if you arent back in 2 minutes Im giving away your seats." (in a very sharp tone). When my friend came back I opted to use the restroom. I didnt inform the maid at all as I didnt want to be on the receiving end of her seemingly seething hatred for people who have to pee. On the way back she went to stop me. I said "I already have a seat" and just brushed past her.

Yojimbo--8 out of 10
-The yojimbo as always were very courteous, fun, and willing to help out. Ive never had a bad experience with any yojimbo at Kcon, and that record continues to be untarnished. The only thing keeping this 8 from a 10 is that my friend had lost his camera in a viewing room. The yojimbo although did what they could within reason I didnt feel like they went above and beyond. They could have sent someone to go look with my friend. Instead they checked what had been turned in and offered advice as to other locations to check. (Main desk and info booth)
Thanks for all the trouble you go through Yojimbo, you guys rock.

Planning--4 out of 10
-As has become a bit of infamy, kcon was full of lines, late panels (sometimes as late as 20 mins to 30 mins), overestimated time slots and just poor scheduling. I'll be the first to say, yeah I understand. Things dont always go perfectly. Someone shows up late, or someone is missing a prop for a panel etc etc etc. I have issue with planning when you go to a panel and theres no soundboard because the room next door took it. Really guys? You dont have enough sound boards for all the panels? If thats going to be a problem then spread out the schedule more, schedule panels with a 20 minute break in between. I also feel there was a huge lack of ranged interests. Now I understand cosplay is a huge aspect of anime fandom. But this Kcon felt like it should have been called CosplayCon. There just didnt seem like there was hardly any emphasis on actual anime/manga: state of the industry, whats coming out in the states soon, what can we expect out of japan.

Location--6 out of 10
-Back in 06(?), Kcon was at the red lion in Janzten beach. It was small and it was crowded but damn if it wasnt well produced. The reg lines that day were awful but the staff mobilized the maids to pass out water, quick thinking. Event lines then seemed much more manageable.
-Kcon 08 was a much better hotel for our purposes. There was room to stop and take a photo, there was a small bar, there was a pool, it was right by the mall and the max. You probably couldnt ask for a better location. (Ive heard we were banned due to the way people behaved. Unfortunately that is very much the nature of immature anime fans, and we have a lot of them.)
-Kcon 09. The hotel was WAY too crammed. There was almost no lobby space. Many paths in the hotel lobby area were roped off to help manage the flow of traffic, unfortunately this felt more like it pushed people around too much, created too many choke points. The hotel just didnt feel like it was able to facilitate the shear amount of bodies. The location being in downtown was actually good. It made anything anyone could want pretty close by. If the hotel were bigger and in that area it would have been a winner.
-Kcon 10? Maybe its time you consider following Scon's example. See what would be involved in getting the convention center, or if not the convention center then at least a bigger venue than a hotel.



What saved Kcon '09 for me.
-Sake Testing (Great idea guys, this one was a real winner)
-Masquerade ball (Also a great time, too bad the line was exactly what we expect from Kcon)
-Anime Hunters in Cosplay Contest
-Bang Bang Neko (A great way to start off the con experience)
-Miniskirt Army panel (Unexpectedly Hilarious)
-Cosplay Swimsuit contest (Before the staff member freaked out at hard gay for something that clearly wasnt his fault)

Kcon List of Shame '09
-Lines worse than Scon main events for kcon random events
-Cosplay Swimsuit Contest (After the staff member freaked out at hard gay for something that clearly wasnt his fault. Just a comment for you guys, you could have simply told the minors to leave. Problem solved.)
-Cosplay Contest (There were more skits than there were cosplayer contestants. Make it more like a fashion show and less like the revolving clothes line at the dry cleaners.)
-Kcon staff.

Well there you have it. Best of luck next year.

[Man of the Public]

Just a note of the Swimsuit Panel it was a Hotel staff not a con staff that shut it down.

[Fevenis]

(double post)

[Fevenis]

- I went to visit the gaming room. I didnt get more than 2 steps in the door before a woman practically charged at me, shooing me out the door proclaiming that no one was allowed in unless they were part of the... she didnt even get the word tournament out before closing the door on my face.

Sorry you were yelled at, that sure was a hectic night for the gaming room. We exceeded the room limit and had to keep people out as to not break fire code. In fairness to the staff member you were referring to, there was a sign on the door you had opened stating that only tournament participants were allowed in the room at that time.

[Meganekko]

This year was amazing for me, I'm so glad I came back.

Yes, there were times when the crowd control was frustrating.  Yes there were lines.  Yes events were canceled.  And yes there were some staff members both Kumoricon and Hilton that were not the best, but at the end of the day I saw more smiling faces than peeved ones.

I always come to cons with the notion that I will miss things I wanted to see, I will stand in line, and I'm going to get lost.  We packed over 4000 people into what, 3 floors and a parking garage level?  I missed that there was even space for us in the Executive tower until I was leaving at 6 on Monday... maybe there wasn't and I heard wrong. Either way that's not the point.  I know there will be mayhem at times and I don't mind.... if anything that's part of the fun. 

I got to know more people because I was stuck in line or killing down time between events.  I ended up in the cosplay fashion show (and was cosplay fashion roadkill) simply because I was lost and couldn't get back upstairs.  After staying in a panel that ran late I missed my last train home and ended up camping out in the Anything and Everything Panel then finding a new anime I'm interested while I killed the last hour in a viewing room before the first train home.  And as for staff, maybe it was because I tried to be as endearing as possible and always asked when and what they may need help with, but my every experience with Hilton and K-Con staff was positive.

Also, for those staff who were rude, I'm not going to excuse it but I understand as always, K-Con was under staffed, over worked and harassed by large grumbling crowds.  I know that I had staff friends who worked 16-20 hour shifts with out breaks only to go sleep a few hours then do it all over again.  I know staff who were abused by the crowds.  So I understand it's real hard to keep your cool in situations like that.  I also understand that a few of the staff let the authority go to their heads, and that is not okay.

Also, many of the things that didn't go well are things we can fix by better planning for next year.  Better access for those with disabilities, time management, staff scheduling, crowd control, and all the other issues that have been brought up will be addressed better next year since we now know what our problem areas are.

[leonmasteries]

ya, for me, it's a 50/50, I liked certain aspects, but didn't like others, but to me, I am still going to next con, and hopefully things will be more prepared and better off than it was this year.

[Corax]

-Kcon 10? Maybe its time you consider following Scon's example. See what would be involved in getting the convention center, or if not the convention center then at least a bigger venue than a hotel.

If you were at the Rant and Rave, then you'd have heard someone ask that same question. The answer was a simple one in a few parts. Even spliting the con up between 3 hotels, none are close enough to the Portland convention center to make it feasable. If they did go to a convention center, then alot of other things would have to go to make end costs meet. There are a few other reasons that aren't comming to mind, but I'm sure someone will pick up here where I left off.

[trinket]

- At the cosplay contest the maid in charge of our column took her job WAY too seriously. Yes, she got us seats. But we werent allowed to leave. A man seated behind me said he was waiting in line a really long time and asked if it was ok for him to go to the bathroom. The maid (in a rather snide voice) told him that he should "just hold it". My friend then said she really had to go too. The maid then said "Fine, Go. But if you arent back in 2 minutes Im giving away your seats." (in a very sharp tone). When my friend came back I opted to use the restroom. I didnt inform the maid at all as I didnt want to be on the receiving end of her seemingly seething hatred for people who have to pee. On the way back she went to stop me. I said "I already have a seat" and just brushed past her.

I'm not going to excuse anything rude that was said, but being as I was one of the "maids" helping with seating for the cosplay contest here's a bit of explanation as to what was going on. We were told to fill every seat. the problem with filling every seat is we cannot allow people to save seats or be picky about thier seats. When everyone (yes i know an exaggeration) comes in needing to use the bathroom or get water it turns into a mess because we can not keep exact track of every seat we have filled. When we h7ave people coming4 in to sir down but oth7er people g4etting4 up and leaving4 and coming4 back we get the "why did they get to go up there but I have to sit way back here" so if she told them they could not use the bathroom it is because we needed to get everyone seated and when a lot of people start roaming around trying to fill all the seats become a nightmare. Tickets were printed out to match the number of chairs in the event and all the tickets were given out, so all the seats had to be filled.  If the maid in question was rude it would be because there were many in the line that did not want to cooperate with the seating, but the way seating was done had to be that way under the circumstances.

[Slash5150]

- I went to visit the gaming room. I didnt get more than 2 steps in the door before a woman practically charged at me, shooing me out the door proclaiming that no one was allowed in unless they were part of the... she didnt even get the word tournament out before closing the door on my face.

Sorry you were yelled at, that sure was a hectic night for the gaming room. We exceeded the room limit and had to keep people out as to not break fire code. In fairness to the staff member you were referring to, there was a sign on the door you had opened stating that only tournament participants were allowed in the room at that time.

And the time when that happened, it was RIGHT AFTER we got completely verbally annihilated about fire codes

[Meganekko]

-Kcon 10? Maybe its time you consider following Scon's example. See what would be involved in getting the convention center, or if not the convention center then at least a bigger venue than a hotel.

I support this statement.

I wish that Kcon could do that but the Oregon Convention Center is pretty hard to deal with since the hotels are a ways away, and do not have contracts with OCC, so there is no way to guarantee rooms for con goers. 

Also having worked at Expos and events at the  Oregon Convention Center I can say for a fact that you do not want to be taking a long midnight/2am walk back to your hotel in that area... which is what many of the youth attendees would be facing since Portland has a curfew. Max also stops running there around midnight on weekdays and Saturday, Sunday at 11 or so.  Very easy to miss your last train and be stuck walking.

Somebody mentioned the Portland Metro Expo Center.  It's not really made for a con and has even less hotel options.

Kcon is also in contract with the Hilton for 2010.

Perhaps it'd be better to go back to the Lloyd Double Tree for Kcon 11, since there was areas that could draw attendees out of the con space rain or shine to avoid some of the crowd issues.  We really we not that many more people this year than last but since everybody was hiding from rain in the hotel it seemed much much more crowded.   However I do not know if that is a possibility or not.

[Daxe]

Wow, can you say blatantly obvious damage control? What Im seeing is a lot of excuses and no apologies.

[oslapedo]

I do not want to and will not go back to the Hilton. The issues I had with it were not things the con can change. My beefs weren't with the hotel staff, it was with the location.

Smelly, isolated, relatively frightening, small, etc. I love Kumoricon but I hate the Hilton.

[Meganekko]

@danayoki

K-Con will not move from the Hilton for next year... It would be very unlikely that the contract could be broken.  It is also the biggest Convention space short of OCC in Portland.  So crowding would only be worse unless we have a place with large outside areas like the Lloyd Double Tree.  As I remember there is one Small sized hotel across form the OCC but it again is not in contract with the OCC so, con goers actually getting rooms is problematic.

The plus of having next year in the Hilton again, is Kumoricon now knows where to staff and what the weaknesses are.  

@Daxe
I'm sorry you didn't have a good time.

Also, for the record, I'm not staff or damage control, just a girl who really loves Kumoricon.

[EveofAbyss]

I know it's out of the question, but I still would love for Kumoricon to return to the Vancouver Hilton. That was the best year of Kumoricon in my opinion, in every way. The hotel was large, it was directly across the street from an enormous and spacious park, it was not in the heart of a consistently-crowded urban district. That location had everything going for it, and I think even the increased numbers would function better there than at the Downtown Portland Hilton.

But, I know this is useless talking, I just wanted to express how much I loved that location. I'd marry it if I were a building (because only a building can marry another building, lol). 

[oslapedo]

The plus of having next year in the Hilton again, is Kumoricon now knows where to staff and what the weaknesses are.  

What can Kumoricon do about no food @ night, leerers, homeless, over priced small hotel rooms, gross downtown smell, lack of places out of con to hangout, crowding, etc? There is an abundance of weaknesses with the Hilton that are unchangeable.

I don't understand though, why they're staying in the same small place when this year people got turned down. Kumoricon is stunting its own growth.

[Kahlan4]

The plus of having next year in the Hilton again, is Kumoricon now knows where to staff and what the weaknesses are.  

What can Kumoricon do about no food @ night, leerers, homeless, over priced small hotel rooms, gross downtown smell, lack of places out of con to hangout, crowding, etc? There is an abundance of weaknesses with the Hilton that are unchangeable.

I don't understand though, why they're staying in the same small place when this year people got turned down. Kumoricon is stunting its own growth.

ditto. and in addition to stunting it's growth, k-con is going to lose what seems like quite a few veterans and loyal con-goers based on this year and the disappointment that came with it. unfortunate.

[leonmasteries]

ya, the lack of food so late was bad, although my room mates did find this pizza joint that is open all night, and if you call after midnight, it plays the coolest answering machine recording ever, it's pretty much soft core porn that involves pizza.

[EveofAbyss]

I'm sure if they had a choice they wouldn't be returning. That's just the unfortunate aspect of the way the hotel did its contracts, I guess.

I will keep my fingers crossed for a future return to Washington, haha

[EveofAbyss]

At least we've still got the Uwajimaya Festival this month. That's something to look forward to, right!? 

[MiriaRose]

Actually, there was a 24-hour restaurant open, but it was a bit of a walk from the hotel.

[leonmasteries]

Actually, there was a 24-hour restaurant open, but it was a bit of a walk from the hotel.

really? I think the place your talking about was like 8 blocks away, I don't know, the hotel staff gave us odd directions... But like I said, there was a place that delivers after midnight, it was Hammy's pizza, and they were pretty cool.

[EveofAbyss]

At least we've still got the Uwajimaya Festival this month. That's something to look forward to, right!? 

This month? Oh cra

When is it?

I think it's the 26th and 27th.

[NickelZinc13]

I know it's out of the question, but I still would love for Kumoricon to return to the Vancouver Hilton. That was the best year of Kumoricon in my opinion, in every way. The hotel was large, it was directly across the street from an enormous and spacious park, it was not in the heart of a consistently-crowded urban district. That location had everything going for it, and I think even the increased numbers would function better there than at the Downtown Portland Hilton.

But, I know this is useless talking, I just wanted to express how much I loved that location. I'd marry it if I were a building (because only a building can marry another building, lol). 

I agree with this, being that I live in that area. (By the way, it actually is just in the outskirt of the city's "consistently-crowded urban district.)

The Esther Short Park was perfect for photoshoots and the ever-fun Glomp Circle.

The area has enough small fast-food places to eat.

C-Tran and Trimet have easy access to the Hilton.

Vancouver is far-less populated than that of Portland, yet it is just across the river.

Alternate hotels are nearby.

And that Hilton is very spacious!

Though I'd prefer the DoubleTree, I cannot and would not turn down Vancouver Hilton. (Also, it was my first Kumoricon. <3)

[NickelZinc13]

Actually, there was a 24-hour restaurant open, but it was a bit of a walk from the hotel.

really? I think the place your talking about was like 8 blocks away, I don't know, the hotel staff gave us odd directions... But like I said, there was a place that delivers after midnight, it was Hammy's pizza, and they were pretty cool.

There's also Roxie's, which definitely is eight blocks away; Six blocks north, two blocks west. All-night diner.

[MiriaRose]

Actually, there was a 24-hour restaurant open, but it was a bit of a walk from the hotel.

really? I think the place your talking about was like 8 blocks away, I don't know, the hotel staff gave us odd directions... But like I said, there was a place that delivers after midnight, it was Hammy's pizza, and they were pretty cool.

There's also Roxie's, which definitely is eight blocks away; Six blocks north, two blocks west. All-night diner.

Roxie's is what I was talking about. We went there Sunday night. <3 There were a few other cosplayers, but not many congoers knew about it, I guess.

[NickelZinc13]

Actually, there was a 24-hour restaurant open, but it was a bit of a walk from the hotel.

really? I think the place your talking about was like 8 blocks away, I don't know, the hotel staff gave us odd directions... But like I said, there was a place that delivers after midnight, it was Hammy's pizza, and they were pretty cool.

There's also Roxie's, which definitely is eight blocks away; Six blocks north, two blocks west. All-night diner.

Roxie's is what I was talking about. We went there Sunday night. <3 There were a few other cosplayers, but not many congoers knew about it, I guess.

Yeah, I talked to a lot of people about places in Portland. Not a lot of people are familiar with the area. I think we need a map that actually describes places in the area in some detail. There's Roxie's, which is an all-night diner that would've supplied many of the late-night cosplayers, there's an all-ages gay nightclub, which could've been fun for all of the minors who couldn't go to the raves (who're okay with an overcrowded nightclub with gays and bisexuals), there's a fountain to hang out and just about swim in, there's a lot to that area that not a lot of people know.

Hell, I didn't even know Portland had a minor curfew - I was with a group of drunk friends (I was sober) and we walked around Portland - All of us were below the age of 21, not even considering most of us were even minors, and we passed by several police officers and squad cars! None of them confronted us, despite us yelling and getting rowdy.

[Rathany]

What was said above about the convention center is  true.  We can't have the space subsidized  by room blocks like at a hotel.  There is no attached hotel.  Portland's convention center is not set up with the same deals as teh Seattle one.  The nearest hotel of any size is the Lloyd Center Doubletree.  This was explained in more detail at rant and rave.  Being at the convention center would gut our budget, for everything from panel supplies and Guests of Honor to power.  As in, power from the walls to run lights, speakers etc.  This is a major consideration. 

Also, the Vancouver Hilton cannot handle us at our current size.  Not even close.  The crowding issues would have been far worse there. 

There just aren't many other con hotels out there in Portland.  The three largest are the three Hiltons.  Kcon is the the biggest fish in this pond.  No other convention is near our size. 

[Daxe]

Psst... post this in the idea box. Have staff run a shuttle from the Convention Center to all the hotels in the area. This fixes your issues with late night maxes and younglings walking the street after dark.

[Meganekko]

Well, in regards to the creepy bumms that traverse Downtown Portland, they are nothing compared to the ones up in the Lloyd District.  I about got mugged on my way back to my car after rant and rave.  That was at 7pm the latest...

As a Vancouver resident and a Portland student, I know what I'm talking about on this one.  I had a few run ins with the bumms this year and the Portland Police who were wandering didn't chase them off like they should have, but for the most part they were pretty harmless.  A few were even really fun.  That said, I'm used to the bumms.  Minors and people who don't have much homeless exposure are, rightfully so, creeped out.

Well, perhaps instead of staff doing shuttles like that, forum members could pre arrange rides with Portland/Vancouver locals to hotels.... still beyond hotels there are real reasons why OCC just isn't an option at the moment.

[AllyKat]

What was said above about the convention center is  true.  We can't have the space subsidized  by room blocks like at a hotel.  There is no attached hotel.  Portland's convention center is not set up with the same deals as teh Seattle one.  The nearest hotel of any size is the Lloyd Center Doubletree.  This was explained in more detail at rant and rave.  Being at the convention center would gut our budget, for everything from panel supplies and Guests of Honor to power.  As in, power from the walls to run lights, speakers etc.  This is a major consideration. 

Also, the Vancouver Hilton cannot handle us at our current size.  Not even close.  The crowding issues would have been far worse there. 

There just aren't many other con hotels out there in Portland.  The three largest are the three Hiltons.  Kcon is the the biggest fish in this pond.  No other convention is near our size. 

I agree whole heartedly with you Rathany-person-sir This is quite a perdicament. Getting the funding to jump from a 6000 or under glass ceiling into the open wonderfulness of The OCC is NOT easy. But so many cons have done it before... How did they do it? I'm sure Sak had it's problems. I sincerely doubt there first year getting those contracts with all the hotels was easy. I don't imagine that the Washington convention area really understood if they'd be getting their money's worth in Room reservations and business from such an odd subculture. Even with U of Pudget Sound's business and japanese program... it takes a lot to prove to a business that discounting THAT MANY rooms can actually help them in the long run, especially such nice places as the Grand-style hotels we often need.

[sarcasm] That's it! We are moving Kumori-con to Las Vegas and re-naming it Atsui-con! [/sarcasm]

Honestly, people who go to Sakura-con deal with the distance of con to Con Center, how do they do it? How do people on the East-Coast and Midwest do it? We are arguing symantics again. We can't do NOTHING. saying that it is impossible to move to the Convention Center doesn't solve the problem of overcrowding. All it does is basically say we are either giving up, letting the con relinquish all prowess in the nw to sakura-con or fight for the right to have an awesome (perhaps big) con at the convention center... and as our great king Leonidas once said;

(wait... what???)

"Well, that's an easy choice for us! Otaku never retreat! Otaku never surrender! Go spread the word. Let everyone assembled know the truth of this. Let each among them search his own soul. And while you're at it, search your own."

[Rathany]

What was said above about the convention center is  true.  We can't have the space subsidized  by room blocks like at a hotel.  There is no attached hotel.  Portland's convention center is not set up with the same deals as teh Seattle one.  The nearest hotel of any size is the Lloyd Center Doubletree.  This was explained in more detail at rant and rave.  Being at the convention center would gut our budget, for everything from panel supplies and Guests of Honor to power.  As in, power from the walls to run lights, speakers etc.  This is a major consideration. 

Also, the Vancouver Hilton cannot handle us at our current size.  Not even close.  The crowding issues would have been far worse there. 

There just aren't many other con hotels out there in Portland.  The three largest are the three Hiltons.  Kcon is the the biggest fish in this pond.  No other convention is near our size. 

I agree whole heartedly with you Rathany-person-sir This is quite a perdicament. Getting the funding to jump from a 6000 or under glass ceiling into the open wonderfulness of The OCC is NOT easy. But so many cons have done it before... How did they do it? I'm sure Sak had it's problems. I sincerely doubt there first year getting those contracts with all the hotels was easy. I don't imagine that the Washington convention area really understood if they'd be getting their money's worth in Room reservations and business from such an odd subculture. Even with U of Pudget Sound's business and japanese program... it takes a lot to prove to a business that discounting THAT MANY rooms can actually help them in the long run, especially such nice places as the Grand-style hotels we often need.

[sarcasm] That's it! We are moving Kumori-con to Las Vegas and re-naming it Atsui-con! [/sarcasm]

Honestly, people who go to Sakura-con deal with the distance of con to Con Center, how do they do it? How do people on the East-Coast and Midwest do it? We are arguing symantics again. We can't do NOTHING. saying that it is impossible to move to the Convention Center doesn't solve the problem of overcrowding. All it does is basically say we are either giving up, letting the con relinquish all prowess in the nw to sakura-con or fight for the right to have an awesome (perhaps big) con at the convention center... and as our great king Leonidas once said;

(wait... what???)

"Well, that's an easy choice for us! Otaku never retreat! Otaku never surrender! Go spread the word. Let everyone assembled know the truth of this. Let each among them search his own soul. And while you're at it, search your own."

Well, Sak did it because, as has been said, thier room blocks at other hotels help them subsidize space.  We cannot do that here in Portland.  There is a one-time grant that we are eligable for from the city of Portland to help us make the jump, but it is one time only. 

How to explain this another way ...
Seattle goes: Hey, cons generate money for the city.  Let's let you have space for your event at a reduced price.
Portland goes: err.... you want what?

Past the first year, our costs at the Portland convention center would be much higher than Sak's at the Seattle convention center.  So, we'd both be convention center cons, but the amount we can spend on bringing in cool stuff would be alot less.  Even if we charged the same amount for badges, we'd still get much less money per attendee to fund the con. 

At the Portland Convention Center, even if we charge the same amount for badges and have the exact same attedance, we'd still have less money for guests and programming than Sak. 

I am not saying that we should never go to the convetion center, I am just trying to explain why we haven't yet.

[Daxe]

What was said above about the convention center is  true.  We can't have the space subsidized  by room blocks like at a hotel.  There is no attached hotel.  Portland's convention center is not set up with the same deals as teh Seattle one.  The nearest hotel of any size is the Lloyd Center Doubletree.  This was explained in more detail at rant and rave.  Being at the convention center would gut our budget, for everything from panel supplies and Guests of Honor to power.  As in, power from the walls to run lights, speakers etc.  This is a major consideration. 

Also, the Vancouver Hilton cannot handle us at our current size.  Not even close.  The crowding issues would have been far worse there. 

There just aren't many other con hotels out there in Portland.  The three largest are the three Hiltons.  Kcon is the the biggest fish in this pond.  No other convention is near our size. 

I agree whole heartedly with you Rathany-person-sir This is quite a perdicament. Getting the funding to jump from a 6000 or under glass ceiling into the open wonderfulness of The OCC is NOT easy. But so many cons have done it before... How did they do it? I'm sure Sak had it's problems. I sincerely doubt there first year getting those contracts with all the hotels was easy. I don't imagine that the Washington convention area really understood if they'd be getting their money's worth in Room reservations and business from such an odd subculture. Even with U of Pudget Sound's business and japanese program... it takes a lot to prove to a business that discounting THAT MANY rooms can actually help them in the long run, especially such nice places as the Grand-style hotels we often need.

[sarcasm] That's it! We are moving Kumori-con to Las Vegas and re-naming it Atsui-con! [/sarcasm]

Honestly, people who go to Sakura-con deal with the distance of con to Con Center, how do they do it? How do people on the East-Coast and Midwest do it? We are arguing symantics again. We can't do NOTHING. saying that it is impossible to move to the Convention Center doesn't solve the problem of overcrowding. All it does is basically say we are either giving up, letting the con relinquish all prowess in the nw to sakura-con or fight for the right to have an awesome (perhaps big) con at the convention center... and as our great king Leonidas once said;

(wait... what???)

"Well, that's an easy choice for us! Otaku never retreat! Otaku never surrender! Go spread the word. Let everyone assembled know the truth of this. Let each among them search his own soul. And while you're at it, search your own."

Well, Sak did it because, as has been said, thier room blocks at other hotels help them subsidize space.  We cannot do that here in Portland.  There is a one-time grant that we are eligable for from the city of Portland to help us make the jump, but it is one time only. 

How to explain this another way ...
Seattle goes: Hey, cons generate money for the city.  Let's let you have space for your event at a reduced price.
Portland goes: err.... you want what?

Past the first year, our costs at the Portland convention center would be much higher than Sak's at the Seattle convention center.  So, we'd both be convention center cons, but the amount we can spend on bringing in cool stuff would be alot less.  Even if we charged the same amount for badges, we'd still get much less money per attendee to fund the con. 

At the Portland Convention Center, even if we charge the same amount for badges and have the exact same attedance, we'd still have less money for guests and programming than Sak. 

I am not saying that we should never go to the convetion center, I am just trying to explain why we haven't yet.

Then it sounds like its time that Kcon has a business meeting with Scon to prepare a business model to present to the city of portland to get them to be more like seattles "Hey, cons generate money for the city.  Let's let you have space for your event at a reduced price." Make it happen.

[reppy]

I'm not quite sure if Kumoricon is at the "Hey, cons generate revenue for the city" status.  6,000 people is a lot to us, but how many are people that wouldn't be there already if not for the con?  Would the amount of additional revenue generated to the city be worth it for them?

[Daxe]

An additional 6000 people dropped into the middle of downtown or the Lloyd Center area? Yeah I think thats a significant chunk for 3 days straight. Actually you might consider contracting with the Lloyd center. We all know they got TONSSS on extra business when we were at the double tree. If they are able to help cover costs at the double tree/red lion/convention center then it would help Kcon tons. Consider asking them what the difference was in revenue or foot traffic on labor day weekend between last year and this year. They could be a strong supporter of our efforts if we bring them such a surge of people every year.

[Rathany]

An additional 6000 people dropped into the middle of downtown or the Lloyd Center area? Yeah I think thats a significant chunk for 3 days straight. Actually you might consider contracting with the Lloyd center. We all know they got TONSSS on extra business when we were at the double tree. If they are able to help cover costs at the double tree/red lion/convention center then it would help Kcon tons. Consider asking them what the difference was in revenue or foot traffic on labor day weekend between last year and this year. They could be a strong supporter of our efforts if we bring them such a surge of people every year.

We tried doing bussiness with Lloyd center last year.  Our numbers did not impress them.  We could try again, but, just letting you know that this has been tried. 

Also, keep in mind that Labor Day is already a big shopping weekend. 

[AllyKat]

Well, Sak did it because, as has been said, thier room blocks at other hotels help them subsidize space.  We cannot do that here in Portland.  There is a one-time grant that we are eligable for from the city of Portland to help us make the jump, but it is one time only. 

How to explain this another way ...
Seattle goes: Hey, cons generate money for the city.  Let's let you have space for your event at a reduced price.
Portland goes: err.... you want what?

Past the first year, our costs at the Portland convention center would be much higher than Sak's at the Seattle convention center.  So, we'd both be convention center cons, but the amount we can spend on bringing in cool stuff would be alot less.  Even if we charged the same amount for badges, we'd still get much less money per attendee to fund the con. 

At the Portland Convention Center, even if we charge the same amount for badges and have the exact same attedance, we'd still have less money for guests and programming than Sak. 

I am not saying that we should never go to the convetion center, I am just trying to explain why we haven't yet.

Oh my gosh! This is amazing news to hear! You have no idea how helpful you have been Rathany!
This is the kind of information we as metro-area (well... I used to be... stupid economy!) Citizens
need to know. If the Portland community wants bussiness and convention expose's that bring in money
carrying fanatics who would like nothing more than to spend money on local food shops, hotel rooms and
entertainment in the area while going to a convention for something they love, then they need to know that
the conventions will need a little subsidization assistance! We as citizens can start pulling for this....

So thats our job fellow grunts of the forum! Use your writing and blogging skills to start littering city hall
with concerns and endorsements of convention attendance and it's affect on the economy. We can poll
local business in the hilton area and maybe even get them to agree to sign an affadavit saying that their
bussiness was greatly increased by the convention goers and that they would like to see more of this to help
their businesses out of economic turmoil! Small business is really hurting right now, I know that I personally
took some of my Willamette valley friends down to Rocco's and had some GREAT pizza for an amazing price,
when we came back we were talking it up and eventually a LOT of people started heading down that way
looking for a good local meal (as opposed to Carl's Jr. and the like... which were also helped by our con!)

This is what we need to show the City of Portland! And those of us outside the city and metro limits need to
emplore the city to be welcoming and helpful to a convention that gets us into their city to spend money.
Its as good a reason as I need to save up money for a trip into Stumptown and I'm sure a lot of the parents
of kids (above 14 obviously) who didnt feel like sitting in panels of anime kookoo-ness all day, went out into
P-town to explore the pearl, old town and more! What a great booster! And the more people we get, the more
oppourtunity we have to bring money into the economy... think about how much revenue the Bridal show brings
in to local businesses! It was always a HUGE deal... and brides are already spending tons on wedding stuff...
we may be paying a ton for our anime and manga and paraphenalia.... but we rely on the outlying area for
last minute costume additions, food and most importantly... ENERGY DRINKS!!

....okay... maybe it's just me who has to have a flat of bawls next year if she's gonna survive the convention....

~Allykat

[Meganekko]

Yeah but how many of those 6,000 people were non locals?  Many of the locals are not that willing to drop cash at Lloyd and such, cause its old news to us.

I spent a grand total of 21 dollars during the run of the convention.  All of which was at the vendors hall.
I know I'm not alone on doing the con on the cheap as a local, which I would assume a good chunk of that 6,000 figure is seeing how many people I ran into that were town acquaintances, familiar faces or introduced themselves as locals.

Now my level of thrift is a bit abnormal, but the big money is in the food and the vendors hall....

I agree the Downtown Hilton is not my favorite venue, at all.  But we did also get screwed cause of the weather, not that we should count on good weather and have the same thing happen.  But had it been sunny, the glomp circles and photo shoots would have been happening a lot more down in Pioneer Square and some of the crowding would have not of been as bad.

Beau had mentioned in passing at the Ask me Anything panel that next year there needs to be more big draws (all day dance or something) in the Executive Tower so we can split up the crowds between buildings.


@Rathany
As for getting the Convention Center:

1) Is there some way that con goers could personally try and get the prices dropped?
2) Is there some way we could fund raise to meet the additional cost?
and the end all,
3) Is there a suitable location beyond the Portland/Vancouver metro that maybe we should consider before a move to the OCC that would be better than our current location?

[Daxe]

@Rathany
As for getting the Convention Center:

1) Is there some way that con goers could personally try and get the prices dropped?
2) Is there some way we could fund raise to meet the additional cost?
and the end all,
3) Is there a suitable location beyond the Portland/Vancouver metro that maybe we should consider before a move to the OCC that would be better than our current location?

Though I dont know how effective it would be, I would be willing to drive to eugene or salem if it meant less suck.

[Rathany]

@Rathany
As for getting the Convention Center:

1) Is there some way that con goers could personally try and get the prices dropped?
2) Is there some way we could fund raise to meet the additional cost?
and the end all,
3) Is there a suitable location beyond the Portland/Vancouver metro that maybe we should consider before a move to the OCC that would be better than our current location?

1) There may be ways to do this.  Right now, what we could use most is people who can take on pulling together data and researching better how the city works.  As I said, we found the one 1-time grant program, there may be other things we can do.  There may be some ways to approach this that are better than others.  

2) No clue.  But, keep in mind we are talking very signifigant amounts.  Us Boardies can't discuss overall budget publically, so I can't give you a solid idea of what that is.  Some of our contracts give us reduced prices, but we need to keep said prices confidential.  We can't discuss overal budget or some other costs, because them people would be able to figure out what we paid for things.

3) We've never really looked outside of Portland/Vancouver, but, I would be surprised if there were options.  I know Salem and Eugene have no options for us and I can't think of where else to look.  

[Daxe]

What about lincoln city or Sea Side?

[AllyKat]

Yeah but how many of those 6,000 people were non locals?  Many of the locals are not that willing to drop cash at Lloyd and such, cause its old news to us.

I spent a grand total of 21 dollars during the run of the convention.  All of which was at the vendors hall.
I know I'm not alone on doing the con on the cheap as a local, which I would assume a good chunk of that 6,000 figure is seeing how many people I ran into that were town acquaintances, familiar faces or introduced themselves as locals.

Now my level of thrift is a bit abnormal, but the big money is in the food and the vendors hall....

I agree, the big money IS in the food and vendors hall. But businesses in the area can benifit from that too. Having food vendors like a Thomas Kemper booth or some of the local food wagons rent out space to be close to the con increases food options and allows local people to make money off of our hunger! This is something we can really only do in a convention hall where a food court would actually make sense. Hotel's don't allow outside food because it interfere's with there on-site resturaunt and because it damages their rep with the local resturaunts as a means of talking up good local businesses.

Locals who come to the convention (meaning portland naitives and metro area residents) are at a peak as has been stated before. We may get a few 100 more as the con gets bigger and more reputable, but what we are seeing right now is a spidering of convention attendance from major outlying city scapes such as the Willamette Valley/Salem area, the Bend/Eastern Oregon area, and the Eugene/Corvalis/Monmouth/Ashland College areas. These groups at the con are what will steadily increase as more and more from each area enjoy the con, return and tell their friends and bring them back next year for more fun!

These are the people (specifically those more than 50 miles from Portland) who will take this as an opportunity to see the sites and visit the malls of portland and spend money, parents and college kids alike. Perhaps they who go home each night of the con or have a stocked fridge less that 20 miles away may not feel the need to indulge in the local cusine, but trust that is what those who want a good meal and drove from Corvalis and Bend did! (at least some of the time.... if they stoped gaming long enough and actually ate... ^_^;; )

It just takes some persuasion... any College Forensicators/Debate Team junkies on the forums like me? We could get a meeting together and pitch it collectively... some kind of State/City grant to the Con.... it could be a fun and politically insightful experience! woot!


If all else fails.....

Carwash anyone? *pictures 19 year old girls in maid outfits and bunny costumes washing cars* Wait, why haven't we done this fundraising thing sooner?

~Allykat

[RemSaverem]

I am confused as to why a very important allegation was skipped over. A very early post in this thread alleged that the Doubletree Lloyd "banned" KC from returning because of bad "behavior" by attendees. I would be entirely shocked if this were true. Larry (special events manager or some related title) loved us (Creation Station), treasured a certificate with our logo on it that I gave him, remarked that he still had the thank you gift Creation Station gave him when we were there in 2005. It's the only hotel that took us back knowing what we were like from a previous year, and imho inarguably the best a hotel has treated us, and the best layout for us (well what can I say we in the CS love the Executive Center!). Anyway. I want to be sure to hear clarification from Relations that this is not true; that we have not been banned from Doubletree. IMHO after the contract with the Hilton ends we would be wise to look into whether we could return there and just expand programming into nearby hotels. Have we ever considered renting movie theatres or other comparable venues that were near hotels? And no one seems to be mentioning the idea of considering college campuses. When I ran Creation Station at Anime Evolution for a few years, we were at Simon Frazier University (in Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada). The buildings were sprawling, but they were at such a bargain to the con that the rates for attendees were cheap, and, staff got VERY cheap housing, with options including dorms and townhouses, right there on campus! It totally rocked. ? PSU? U of O???

[AllyKat]

I am confused as to why a very important allegation was skipped over. A very early post in this thread alleged that the Doubletree Lloyd "banned" KC from returning because of bad "behavior" by attendees. I would be entirely shocked if this were true. Larry (special events manager or some related title) loved us (Creation Station), treasured a certificate with our logo on it that I gave him, remarked that he still had the thank you gift Creation Station gave him when we were there in 2005. It's the only hotel that took us back knowing what we were like from a previous year, and imho inarguably the best a hotel has treated us, and the best layout for us (well what can I say we in the CS love the Executive Center!). Anyway. I want to be sure to hear clarification from Relations that this is not true; that we have not been banned from Doubletree. IMHO after the contract with the Hilton ends we would be wise to look into whether we could return there and just expand programming into nearby hotels. Have we ever considered renting movie theatres or other comparable venues that were near hotels? And no one seems to be mentioning the idea of considering college campuses. When I ran Creation Station at Anime Evolution for a few years, we were at Simon Frazier University (in Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada). The buildings were sprawling, but they were at such a bargain to the con that the rates for attendees were cheap, and, staff got VERY cheap housing, with options including dorms and townhouses, right there on campus! It totally rocked. ? PSU? U of O???

This is a false allegation. No Board member ever said this. Its not true. The con had to abandon the Doubletree due to size of convention. Nothing else. I can find no record searching this site or any other that says this was ever the case... many rumors have been spread and reasons thrown about... I'm sure you want to hear this from Rathany but I'll just say it too... I can find no reason other than lack of space why we had to bail out of Doubletree for the convention in favor of Dowtown Hilton

~Allykat

EDIT: In my haste to answer your first question I neglected the second;

PSU share's dormitories with the 2 other downtown universities and while that may be an option... I'd have to give them a call and see what kind of Summer classes they all do and how we could work around that. PCC, PSU and AI all have summer schedules that run the gambit and may not allow us to use there space for a Convention. U of O and OSU and the like may indeed be a good option... I'd have to figure out if school rules and regulations, however limit us in other ways before I agree that this is a good option. Some schools have such tight security and curfew regulations, especially durring the summer when few people are there, that hosting an event like ours would be cumbersome and in the end dis-jointed to what we need/want. But it's worth a try to find out for sure! I love the U of O campus, it's beautiful and a good walk around green space.... that would deffinetely be fun!

[Rathany]

I am confused as to why a very important allegation was skipped over. A very early post in this thread alleged that the Doubletree Lloyd "banned" KC from returning because of bad "behavior" by attendees. I would be entirely shocked if this were true.

Oh, sorry, I thought someone had answered that.  It must've been answered in another thread.  Gomen!

Yeah, this is completely untrue.  We had a little bit of hotel damage that year, but other than that no behavioral complaints.  They love us, they just don't want to handle a convention with our growth.  if we tried to go back, we'd likely have to agree to a 4,500 cap.  Or, possibly lower.  

This year there were no behavior complaints.  I have yet to hear about any hotel damage, but we might not know for a few days on that.  

Also, Allykat is a forum ninja.  Thanks Allykat

[RemSaverem]

I am confused as to why a very important allegation was skipped over. A very early post in this thread alleged that the Doubletree Lloyd "banned" KC from returning because of bad "behavior" by attendees. I would be entirely shocked if this were true.

[snip]Yeah, this is completely untrue.  We had a little bit of hotel damage that year, but other than that no behavioral complaints.  They love us, they just don't want to handle a convention with our growth.  if we tried to go back, we'd likely have to agree to a 4,500 cap.  Or, possibly lower.  
[snip]

THANK YOU I can breathe again. I *loved* being there. Can't we find a 2nd hotel or non-hotel add-on venue (movie theatre?) close enough that we can be there with overflow elsewhere? Could we be there and whatever Lloyd Center is, if we change weekends (that may be heresy, I know *crouches*)? What was our total this year? 6500 hard cap is what I thought I heard, reached by like 2 on Sat?

[AllyKat]

Also, Allykat is a forum ninja.  Thanks Allykat

What is this forum ninja? I do not know what this means? Does it mean that, because after Labor day we have literally 5 people checking into the hotel today so I have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do at work and therefore have spent my entire day researching convention policies in the oregon and washington area?

Then yes, I am this ninja of the forum ^_^

~Allykat

[Daxe]

For what its worth, PSU has no classes between labor day weekend and September 28th. I dont know what that means for the dorms, but there shouldnt be any trouble getting rooms for hosting the con campus wide.

[Daxe]

Also, Allykat is a forum ninja.  Thanks Allykat

What is this forum ninja? I do not know what this means? Does it mean that, because after Labor day we have literally 5 people checking into the hotel today so I have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do at work and therefore have spent my entire day researching convention policies in the oregon and washington area?

Then yes, I am this ninja of the forum ^_^

~Allykat

A forum ninja is anyone who posts what you were going to post but faster thus making your post pointless.

[Rathany]

Also, Allykat is a forum ninja.  Thanks Allykat

What is this forum ninja? I do not know what this means? Does it mean that, because after Labor day we have literally 5 people checking into the hotel today so I have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do at work and therefore have spent my entire day researching convention policies in the oregon and washington area?

Then yes, I am this ninja of the forum ^_^

~Allykat

A forum ninja is anyone who posts what you were going to post but faster thus making your post pointless.

Well, what I meant by it was that Allykat was being awesome and fast! 

[RemSaverem]

For what its worth, PSU has no classes between labor day weekend and September 28th. I dont know what that means for the dorms, but there shouldnt be any trouble getting rooms for hosting the con campus wide.

I stayed in the Ondine. I'm a PSU Alum. It was only $40 a night for a room with 2 beds and its own bathroom, plus coffee maker & free instant coffee. (Of note: Bring your own fan. No fan/AC in dorm!). I got parking passes for PSU lots for only $8/night, *including* overnights. Didn't use them though; drove to the PMCs near the hotel and then moved car to street overnight. It was loud at the Ondine but most hadn't moved back in yet. Ondine is SW 6th & College (10 blocks south of hotel). Broadway is 1 block further south & (logically) on Broadway, is only $50/night and includes a kitchenette! (Bring your own supplies.) So the extra $10 could be made up for by how much food you don't have to buy.....yah. Ondine has kitchenettes on 6th and 9th floors but those were already "turned over" from summer accommodations dept to campus living dept so not able to be rented by congoers.
I felt totally safe (albeit one person ranting on stairs, homeless local) but might not have if walking that far late at night. Max runs right by it though as I'm sure do some buses.