Plans to make 2010 even better

[MichaelEvans]

There are -many- security and safety issues involved in the area between the 'dead end' and the other part of the areas.

If I had to lay things out, I think I'd probably put vendors who need deliveries periodically in that area, given the freight elevator/loading dock access.

I think that would actually -benefit- Uwajimaya, so they could more readily replenish their wares and optionally take some off site/refresh mid-day.  With that in the area down there it would naturally be a crowd magnet.  Nekopan might be a good fit for the other part of that corner.  Then maybe a photo area as extra crowd capacitance and the AA in a rough L from the elevators to the corner and a bit around it.

[Rathany]

There are -many- security and safety issues involved in the area between the 'dead end' and the other part of the areas.

If I had to lay things out, I think I'd probably put vendors who need deliveries periodically in that area, given the freight elevator/loading dock access.

I think that would actually -benefit- Uwajimaya, so they could more readily replenish their wares and optionally take some off site/refresh mid-day.  With that in the area down there it would naturally be a crowd magnet.  Nekopan might be a good fit for the other part of that corner.  Then maybe a photo area as extra crowd capacitance and the AA in a rough L from the elevators to the corner and a bit around it.

Vendors absolutely MAY NOT take deliveries during the con.  If they want it, it best by there by the end of set up. 

[DevinShadowV]

I have a idea do it at the Oregon Convention Center...the place is big enough for the con and more even though the hotels are around the convention but it breaks up the mayhem from what happened this year.

[MichaelEvans]

I have a idea do it at the Oregon Convention Center...the place is big enough for the con and more even though the hotels are around the convention but it breaks up the mayhem from what happened this year.

Already mentioned in at least two other threads...
http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11118.msg466864#msg466864
http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11175.msg465789#msg465789

The short answer (summarizing others) is that event spaces in hotels are subsidized by the room reservations.  The hotel naturally also shaves off a little of their usual price to encourage people to use the event code and because of the bulk rate block booking of the rooms; though there is still a portion of what would otherwise be profit from the rooms paying for the space used for events.

At a convention center the space is rented out at rates that are for the profit of the space; and the convention center is one of few places in Oregon that large of that configuration.  They charge accordingly for the scarcity.  However read the other threads, there's far more information there.

[RemSaverem]

*cowers in the corner in case anyone doesn't like the idea*
What if one of the big events, either a concert or a masquerade ball or a rave, were moved to Friday night and a separate charge applied? That might actually alleviate not only some of the during-con crowding of the schedule and the rooms, but also generate money, and also meet the needs of those who, for whatever reason, didn't pre-reg and find out (before or on con Friday) that there won't be the ability to buy a ticket at the door for the con, but they could go to this one event with everyone....?

[Kurokaizoku]

*cowers in the corner in case anyone doesn't like the idea*
What if one of the big events, either a concert or a masquerade ball or a rave, were moved to Friday night and a separate charge applied? That might actually alleviate not only some of the during-con crowding of the schedule and the rooms, but also generate money, and also meet the needs of those who, for whatever reason, didn't pre-reg and find out (before or on con Friday) that there won't be the ability to buy a ticket at the door for the con, but they could go to this one event with everyone....?

I like the idea but I'm not sure of everything that would be involved to make it happen. I think it is something that could be looked into. I do know that Friday night is generally busy for everyone and it does also start to make the con a longer con. But we had gaming open friday night. I think it is a good idea. Outside of the box.

[DevinShadowV]

I have a idea do it at the Oregon Convention Center...the place is big enough for the con and more even though the hotels are around the convention but it breaks up the mayhem from what happened this year.

Already mentioned in at least two other threads...
http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11118.msg466864#msg466864
http://www.kumoricon.org/forums/index.php?topic=11175.msg465789#msg465789

The short answer (summarizing others) is that event spaces in hotels are subsidized by the room reservations.  The hotel naturally also shaves off a little of their usual price to encourage people to use the event code and because of the bulk rate block booking of the rooms; though there is still a portion of what would otherwise be profit from the rooms paying for the space used for events.

At a convention center the space is rented out at rates that are for the profit of the space; and the convention center is one of few places in Oregon that large of that configuration.  They charge accordingly for the scarcity.  However read the other threads, there's far more information there.

True but for this year it was overfilled and needs to be bigger for next year that's basically it.

[shanime_panda]

it just needs to not rain next year -_-

[murder_of_raven]

True but for this year it was overfilled and needs to be bigger for next year that's basically it.

Actually, that brings up a logic issue I've been having with the common responses given to the "Why aren't we going to be in the Convention Center next year?" question. Always the response seems to boil down to "its too expensive, we don't have enough money or people yet". However it was previously stated on the forums that Kumoricon is almost entirely funded by the last year's profits. If this year we reached (or indeed exceeded, considering there were people who were turned away) our maximum attendance, how could we make more money after next year? If people get used to non pre-reg'ers getting mass rejected, as people are worried about happening next convention, how will we have more people? It seems like all of the problems, minus the contract, that we'd have with switching venues this year, we'd have the year after that, and there is likely going to be a similar amount of negative response next year based solely on the (in my opinion) questionable merit of the venue. I'm certain that the convention staff have given at least as much thought into this as I have, but reached a very different conclusion. What am I not understanding?

[DevinShadowV]

True but for this year it was overfilled and needs to be bigger for next year that's basically it.

Actually, that brings up a logic issue I've been having with the common responses given to the "Why aren't we going to be in the Convention Center next year?" question. Always the response seems to boil down to "its too expensive, we don't have enough money or people yet". However it was previously stated on the forums that Kumoricon is almost entirely funded by the last year's profits. If this year we reached (or indeed exceeded, considering there were people who were turned away) our maximum attendance, how could we make more money after next year? If people get used to non pre-reg'ers getting mass rejected, as people are worried about happening next convention, how will we have more people? It seems like all of the problems, minus the contract, that we'd have with switching venues this year, we'd have the year after that, and there is likely going to be a similar amount of negative response next year based solely on the (in my opinion) questionable merit of the venue. I'm certain that the convention staff have given at least as much thought into this as I have, but reached a very different conclusion. What am I not understanding?

I understand the money problem but one way or another it's going to have to expanded in the future

[murder_of_raven]

I understand the money problem but one way or another it's going to have to expanded in the future

Well that's assuming the trends don't reverse. I'm sure at the height of the 80's sci-fi conventions not many people looked around and thought "Gee, I wonder what it'll be like when we have to latch onto anime conventions because all the sci-fi conventions have gone under?"

It has to be expanded at some point if we continue to be the same size or larger, which I am of course hoping, but I do think some level of perspective is important.

[Rathany]

@DevinShadowV , if we have no large viable venues in Portland, we have no viable large venues in Portland.

I canna change the laws of physics!!

I've also explained the logistics of this 390859348534897x in the past week.  People kindly linked you to some of the info.  If you have read all of it and still have questions or suggestions, please let me know.

Also, I *AM* going to be doing a big, dog and pony, in person DAWN EXPLAIN FACILITIES panel.  We may even have a special guest for said panel.  I am still confirming details, but I am hoping to have it the same day as elections, just earlier in the day.  There may even be charts and FAQs involved.  Exciting, huh?

So, until then, please, everyone, keep in mind that we are all volunteers here and many people are working their butts off for nothing more than a Tshirt and a spiffy badge and the joy of working with Kcon.  Phrasing things in terms of 'gosh it would be neat if' as opposed to 'have to' and 'must' makes things a little easier on us.  'Cus, hearing things that sound like demands constantly is NOT what gives us the warm fuzzies and makes us want to put our noses back to the grindstone.  If you really want to help, please make sure you have a full understanding of the situation before making suggestions

[DevinShadowV]

ok

[melchizedek]

RE: Ball

So here are my two coppers. 

For both the swing lessons, and the ballroom lessons there was enough space with one of the live events. 

In past years, live events rooms have been smaller, so when we had the ball there people were turned away.  However, live 2 + live 1 is quite a bunch of space.  There could be a more formal dance there with little problem. 

[AllyKat]

In past years, live events rooms have been smaller, so when we had the ball there people were turned away.  However, live 2 + live 1 is quite a bunch of space.  There could be a more formal dance there with little problem. 

Little Problem Except:

Removing the chairs from previous live events.
Setting up Music and Light Equipment and removing the Live Events Equip.
Taking the room dividers down and creating one Live events room.
Creating a queue line and managing it prior to the dance.
Removing whatever panel/workshop that was supposed to be in Live 1 AND Live 2 for that time
Getting enough people interested in an extra dance to justify the time and EXPENSE to changing the room.
Changing the rooms back into two (reversing the above proccess) at graveyard hours and wages (for hotel staff)
preping the rooms for further events.


Only a few problems! LOL Not trying to sound mean... but we keep forgeting all the red tape and black wire
that goes into moving and managing these events.. There is ALOT.

Hope none of us is planning on being a band manager when we grow up... lol I know I'd fail!

~Allykat

[Selkie]

my friend may of already posed it but hey, my idea so i'm throwing it out there. I was in Gaming Staff and was stuck with bag check. i know ppl have said we will now have shelves and all that. but we should also color coordinate the columns of the shelves.
finding #37 in column red would be much more efficient then just #37.

[AllyKat]

my friend may of already posed it but hey, my idea so i'm throwing it out there. I was in Gaming Staff and was stuck with bag check. i know ppl have said we will now have shelves and all that. but we should also color coordinate the columns of the shelves.
finding #37 in column red would be much more efficient then just #37.

Are we sure that the "Bag Check Coordinator" is making shelves for both gamming and the seperate bag check he/she is making?

Just to clarify, I don't know if both are receiving shelving units as of yet, I only heard the fella making the shelves doing it for
the new seperate bag check... but I could have missed a new development...

The biggest problem is needing shelves that are either Ikea-style deconstructable or are easy to put other things on so as not to
take up too much space in transit and are easy to put wherever they are needed.

~Allykat

[thesirensings]

Actually, the Masquerade Ball was one of my favorite events. It makes me sad that you guys are probably going to cut it from next year.

[ScrumYummy]

I know that it might be extremely inconvenient, but I really really think we should post a Yojimbo (or a Hotel Staff, or a designated police officer, etc) at the Pioneer Square MAX station from maybe 10PM-3AM.

I noticed a lot of little problems this year at the convention but this was the only thing that caused me to feel really uncomfortable and unsafe. By that late at night everyone creepy in downtown PDX has heard about the anime convention and everybody normal has gone to bed. I had some really uncomfortable situations myself and I've read about people having even worse experiences on the forums. I know that a security person at PS wouldn't fix everything, but at least people would know there was someone safe to ask for help outside the hotel.

Anywhere that there is public transportation (MAX/bus stop, etc) there are going to be "undesireables" (creepy people); it's like that all the time and has nothing to do with the con. Your best option is to ignore them; they are harmless. If it makes you feel better, carry some mace with you.

[melchizedek]

In past years, live events rooms have been smaller, so when we had the ball there people were turned away.  However, live 2 + live 1 is quite a bunch of space.  There could be a more formal dance there with little problem. 

Little Problem Except:

Removing the chairs from previous live events.
Setting up Music and Light Equipment and removing the Live Events Equip.
Taking the room dividers down and creating one Live events room.
Creating a queue line and managing it prior to the dance.
Removing whatever panel/workshop that was supposed to be in Live 1 AND Live 2 for that time
Getting enough people interested in an extra dance to justify the time and EXPENSE to changing the room.
Changing the rooms back into two (reversing the above proccess) at graveyard hours and wages (for hotel staff)
preping the rooms for further events.


Only a few problems! LOL Not trying to sound mean... but we keep forgeting all the red tape and black wire
that goes into moving and managing these events.. There is ALOT.

Hope none of us is planning on being a band manager when we grow up... lol I know I'd fail!

~Allykat

None of these above problems are valid. 

#1 chair are already removed for dance lesson.
#2 music is already set up for dance
#3 there already was a big line for the dance lesson, wasn't that bad.
#4 again, the room was changed out anyway, no need to change it out more.
#5 change back? This year once live events was combined it was left that way for the rest of con.

[murder_of_raven]

Anywhere that there is public transportation (MAX/bus stop, etc) there are going to be "undesirables" (creepy people); it's like that all the time and has nothing to do with the con. Your best option is to ignore them; they are harmless. If it makes you feel better, carry some mace with you.

Umm... clearly you missed earlier discussions of this topic. Several people have voiced actual concerns about their safety, including myself. And it was markedly worse than the past 3 Kumoricons (in my opinion).

[AllyKat]

None of these above problems are valid. 

#1 chair are already removed for dance lesson.
#2 music is already set up for dance
#3 there already was a big line for the dance lesson, wasn't that bad.
#4 again, the room was changed out anyway, no need to change it out more.
#5 change back? This year once live events was combined it was left that way for the rest of con.

Okay I will see your thoughts and raise you my own;

Chairs for dance lesson: you are using alternate causality and misquotation to refute your point. I
was NOT trying to say that this is caused by putting the dance in the live events combined, merely
to point out that it IS a problem when using those rooms, moving chairs takes time, and even as this
year saw, it took extra time then considered to remove all the chairs from just ONE live room, you are
proposing the removal of chairs from BOTH at the same time, whereas it was staggered this year.
(risemball took place 1 hour after Ballroom dance lessons started, to give the cleanup crew time to
rest) Imagine the proccess involved in removing the chairs from both simultaneously? It is a problem,
but certainly not the biggest one.

Music is set up for the dance: Now the points are getting really confused. By justifying that chair
removal occurs and the rooms stay (basically) the same for the rest of the con, meaning little maitainence
after set up, you are confusing your room designations. The dance was NOT in Live 1 & 2 this year, and
will probably NEVER be in such as it is deffinetely too big an event. Not to mention it requires the full sound
set up, as do the AMV contest, the Cosplay Contest, and all the other MAIN EVENTS. I capitalize those
words because it is important to understand that the Masquerade ball is considered a main event, needing
the full sound system. Would it sound smart to have to dismantle and re-assemble the sound system in
live 1&2 only to need to rush it down to the ball room and set it back up again for the dance afterwards?
To put this simply; the Masq. Ball cannot actually BE in live 1 & 2 for the simple fact that it is a set up
nightmare as far as sound. You are asking for the main events set-up in a non-main events room. This is
a waste of time and energy to an already overworked staff.

Line for Dance = Line for Masq. Ball: See the previous point. You are again confusing your room
designations. The Line for the dance was able to be snaked outside, permiting more room and less fire
hazzard. As Live 1 & 2 are on the 2nd floor balcony lobby, how do you propose we snake a line of minimum
200 people about the balcony without creating a firehazard? And if we do this then we have a huge line of
people waiting for 1/2 hour or more for there event taking up a large amount of the lobby capacity while
people who want to get to their events are stuck on floors waiting for the ability to get where they want to
go. I agree with you that the line will be there no matter what. But you cannot have the Masq Ball in a
place where the line will cause a disturbance or a hazzard to the convention or the safety of the hotel.

Changing the room back: I'll conceed that, indeed, the room was set up in a 1 room format from
the dating game on, however, there would still be the need to set up the correct sound equipment for
that rooms events and the need to clean up the room after the dance. There is always a "set-up" and
a "take down" and these things do take time and energy, no matter how small of amount of work needs
being done. But you are right, this is a win on your side, the room would then be ready for any of the
events thereafter. But I will point out also that this dissallows an event from taking place in the Live
rooms while the Masq ball is going on and during it's set up and take down.

It's really a moot point as the amount of people who go to the dance lessons doesn't neccissarily
indicate the number of people attending the ball. What about the people who already know how to
dance, or don't care and will instead just Middle-school there way through it, or are just coming to
see the masks and enjoy the costumes.....

There are endless refutations on either side really... the main point is they most likely will not be
moving the masqurade ball, if they even keep it in the main conventions events schedule, so the
rebuttals do nothing but waste bandwidth.

~Allykat

[ScrumYummy]

Anywhere that there is public transportation (MAX/bus stop, etc) there are going to be "undesirables" (creepy people); it's like that all the time and has nothing to do with the con. Your best option is to ignore them; they are harmless. If it makes you feel better, carry some mace with you.

Umm... clearly you missed earlier discussions of this topic. Several people have voiced actual concerns about their safety, including myself. And it was markedly worse than the past 3 Kumoricons (in my opinion).

Yeah, that's because it was held downtown (whereas the previous locations were Lloyd, Vancouver, and Jantzen Beach). Look, I'm downtown late at night all the time. I understand that there is a "presence" there of "scary" people, but there is also a police patrol that visits the Square every fifteen minutes. It's a lot safer than you think. Especially when you add police presence to population density and the fact that there are ALWAYS people walking around downtown, even at four in the morning, I would say that's it's a LOT safer that over in Lloyd, where statistically you are more likely to get shot or abducted in one of the many dark, empty parking lots over there.

But like I said, if it makes you feel more comfortable (because you have the right to feel safe and comfortable) keep your cell phone on and with you, and carry some mace/pepper spray. Walk in well-lit areas where there are people. You'll be fine.

[murder_of_raven]

Yeah, that's because it was held downtown (whereas the previous locations were Lloyd, Vancouver, and Jantzen Beach). Look, I'm downtown late at night all the time. I understand that there is a "presence" there of "scary" people, but there is also a police patrol that visits the Square every fifteen minutes. It's a lot safer than you think. Especially when you add police presence to population density and the fact that there are ALWAYS people walking around downtown, even at four in the morning, I would say that's it's a LOT safer that over in Lloyd, where statistically you are more likely to get shot or abducted in one of the many dark, empty parking lots over there.

But like I said, if it makes you feel more comfortable (because you have the right to feel safe and comfortable) keep your cell phone on and with you, and carry some mace/pepper spray. Walk in well-lit areas where there are people. You'll be fine.

I hate to be like this but were you a young girl in a frilly costume? If not I doubt you get the sort of negative attention downtown as me and others experienced. And, like myself, some of us do not have access to cell phones or pepper spray. Also, I am not sure hotel/convention policy even allows us to be carrying the former to begin with. I am not worried for my personal safety, I bring up that idea because, despite lots of other discussions about "inappropriate conduct", the most dangerous situations I saw or were involved in were definitely all off site, and the majority of them were at night. As I said earlier on the forums, if something really bad were to happen (ie a cosplayer being abducted and raped) the negative press would likely focus on our convention rather than the dangers of downtown.

And, on the subject of police presence, the time that I was most specifically harassed (by a large, drunk man) there was a police officer less than one-hundred yards away who started walking /away/ when she noticed him messing with me. So excuse me for questioning their reliability.

[ScrumYummy]

I hate to be like this but were you a young girl in a frilly costume? If not I doubt you get the sort of negative attention downtown as me and others experienced. And, like myself, some of us do not have access to cell phones or pepper spray. Also, I am not sure hotel/convention policy even allows us to be carrying the former to begin with. I am not worried for my personal safety, I bring up that idea because, despite lots of other discussions about "inappropriate conduct", the most dangerous situations I saw or were involved in were definitely all off site, and the majority of them were at night. As I said earlier on the forums, if something really bad were to happen (ie a cosplayer being abducted and raped) the negative press would likely focus on our convention rather than the dangers of downtown.

And, on the subject of police presence, the time that I was most specifically harassed (by a large, drunk man) there was a police officer less than one-hundred yards away who started walking /away/ when she noticed him messing with me. So excuse me for questioning their reliability.

I walk around downtown in skirts all the time, and I'm a youngish girl (24, and I look much younger). Yeah, it draws more attention than when you don't.

The hotel should definitely allow you to carry a cell phone. Assuming you meant to say "latter," I would assume they wouldn't have a problem with pepper spray, seeing as you don't have to have a permit to carry it and it is not considered a concealed weapon (Oregon has no legal restrictions on pepper spray). Also, I have friends that carry it everywhere and never have any problems (although, keep in mind, you can't take it on a plane). Just order some off the internet, sew a pocket in your frilly dress, and keep it in there. Seriously.

I find it really amusing that you are worried about a con-goer being abducted and raped. At the current location, it is less likely to happen than in the former locations. Statistically speaking, you are more likely to be abducted/raped from walking in an empty parking lot out in Vancouver, Jantzen Beach, or Lloyd Center than in a densely populated Downtown. It's less likely to happen downtown because there IS a police presence, even if they don't stop people from talking to you (sorry that it happened, but seriously, if the police person had intervened, they might have been accused of harassment and even made the situation worse; the fact that there WAS a police officer there should make you feel better, not worse).

As far as the "dangers of downtown" go, you are more likely to be hit by a car walking on a cross-walk than you are to be abducted and/or raped. Sorry that a drunk man talked to you, but trust me, if I were you, I would be more concerned about drivers that aren't paying attention to pedestrians.

PS...I don't mean to down-play what happened to you or make it sound like it's not a concern. It's horrible, and I know that because it's happened to me a lot. A lot. I'm downtown all the time, seriously. But trust me, this should not be your biggest concern if you are worried about safety. This is sensationalism of the "dangers of an urban setting." Downtown is very safe, unless of course you consider your chances of being hit by a car from being a pedestrian or being on a bicycle. And that is the true "danger of downtown." If you are worried about rape, then stay out of the suburbs, where there is no one to hear you scream.

[AllyKat]

I know I am gonna sound horrible for saying it but I honestly don't care:

All this basically comes down to is understanding your surroundings and yourself.

You cannot argue that it's not fair that just because you were wearing a revealing/cute/alluring
dress or garmet that you do NOT warrant leering, on the same token it is NOT an open invitation
to be flirted with/cat called. However, common sense must be put in place when you go out into
the free world when wearing such attire; men are going to look, the less polite are going to stare,
the rude are going to comment and the creepy are going to get up-close and personal. You are
first and foremost wearing something that will attract attention, you know this because it is the
precise reason why we cosplay, to get people to notice our amazing outfits. And while in con-space
you may be commented on by your craftsmanship or closeness to cannon-wear, out in the "real
world" all people without Anime-Cultural training see is a girl in a short skirt, or a low cut top or a
pretty pink frilly maid outfit walking around the streets of downtown with no real protection late
at night. They see someone who has made themselves a focus point, and they feel no reason not
to fall into the focus point. If you are attractive and young looking this doubles. It's just common
sense.

But, that doesn't help any con-goer protect themselves from the creeps and street folk that may
disregard your personal space and rights because you are dressed in a way that calls attention to
yourself. So; lets talk about options to protect from wierdos:

#1. Pick a new cosplay.
            This isn't a fun one, but if you are afraid of being screwed with, choose a cosplay that is
either less conspicous or covers you up and doesn't look so alluring. Use this concept; what would
my non-anime understanding father/grandfather/cousin/brother think if a girl walked by in this outfit.
Regardless of how we feel we SHOULD be percieved in these outfits, we have no control over there
thoughts. If it's not worth it to you to be leered at for dressing that way, find something else.

#2. Carry mace.
             It was discussed earlier yes, but some people don't seem to realize the ease and importance
of this. If you live/work/play in downtown portland, are female and you DO NOT carry mace, you are
doing yourself a dis-service. Just the comfort of having that blue canister around my neck on my ride
home on the max from Llyod Center, to S.E. Portland and Gresham quelled a LOT of my fears. If the
con decides mace is not allowed to be kept on any person in con-space, we may need to talk to the
board to change that rule. Clearly the girls of the con need security, and as long as we do not ABUSE
the privilage of having that security, I'm sure it would put a lot of minds at ease. I will tell you I personally
prefer the model I own:
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_52110?cm_mmc=froogle-_-325-5-6-_--1-_-38-610-017-83&hvarAID=froogle&mr:trackingCode=954935A9-E881-DE11-B712-001422107090&mr:referralID=NA
Now, the picture shows a more "purse friendly" version, it's not very pretty of a canister, but the one I
carry comes in so many pretty colors and attaches right to my key chain, or if you wear a lanyard can be
clipped right on to that. Its great because it is a 3 in 1 pepper spray, military grade tear gas and UV
marking dye. This means that you imobilize, debilitate and then mark your attaker so that, if you get a good
descrip, and report it to the cops, if they find the guy they can identify them by the uv paint (which you
can't see in any light but uv and also does NOT wash of easily) for quick conviction! I have never had to
use this as long as I have held it around my neck and I lived in Gresham (need I go into how many times
gresham has been on TV for shootings, rape and kidnapping?) and S.E. Portland (gangs, drugs and more illegal
activity) for 3 years. All of which my jobs required me to be on my way home alone, at any time between 12:00am
and 1:00am. There is no fool proof way to stay safe, but you should no that any protection visible is a deterant.
Evil do-ers look for an easy target, if you look lost, without a cell phone and are alone or with girls your same
build and confusion, you are that easy target. So carry mace.

#3. Travel in groups!
              You were probably doing this but your group needs to be more active and vigilant if indeed you were
in a group. And by group I don't mean 3 people, after 8pm in downtown portland, unless you are feeling like
playing a game of russian roulette, you should be with AT LEAST 6-8 people, and at least ONE of them should
be male. You are making friends at the convention anyway right? If you really need to travel more than 5 blocks
from the con-space, grab some guys to take with your group and chat them up, get them to join you to whatever
destination you are headed so that your group looks intimidating and non-confrontable. Also, make it a point to
know WHERE you are going and not look lost or confused, it's the weakest look a group of girls can present and
can be a green light for pestering from those that would do you harm. Sticking to a plan and staying in large groups
is not just SAFE, but FUN! The more the Merrier, right?

Every portlander should know these rules, keep the clothing simple, keep security on your person, visible or concealed
depending on the type (but have a permit please!) Look like you know where you are and what your doing, and stay
with a group whenever possible. It's the laws of a safe city dweller, and those who are NOT from metro should ask
those of us who have lived there and done that. It's a hard fact of life that cities just are not that secure, not as
secure as small towns at least, and even then I've seen more creeps messing with people in McMinnville then I ever
got in Portland, but that may be cause people in portland KNOW, and small town folk just have never gotten the message.

If you want to dress in a way that is attracting attention on ANY level or in ANY style, do so! Have fun! I plan to dress
as Card Captor Sakura Kinomoto, which means short frilly skirt and the whole nine yards, but I also plan to be prepared
for the wierdos, with my mace and my guy friends, and a well polished knowledge of the city. Lets all help eachother
have exactly the same tools for a safe convention!

~Allykat

[Animeman73]

This is Animeman73. I've been hearing a lot of people talking what they can do to stay safe. Well as a public service to my fellow Kumoricon attendees and staff I offer a solution. On my blog over on Wordpress.com I have a post about how to stay safe at a convention. I'd like any and all who read this to go over to Wordpress and read my post. Also if you have a suggestion on something to add please place the suggestion in the comment box at the very bottom of the post. I hope this post on my blog you find useful. Here's a Permalink to get you there:

http://scififantasyanimeman.wordpress.com/2009/08/15/how-to-stay-safe-at-a-convention/

[ScrumYummy]

Both of your posts are loaded with excellent advice. (Maybe there should be a page in the convention booklet combining the advice from both of your posts?? That way con-goers who have concerns will have that available to them.)

Although Animeman73, I think you should change the last title in your blog post to "Bill don't be an hero" XD

It's the laws of a safe city dweller, and those who are NOT from metro should ask
those of us who have lived there and done that. It's a hard fact of life that cities just are not that secure, not as
secure as small towns at least, and even then I've seen more creeps messing with people in McMinnville then I ever
got in Portland, but that may be cause people in portland KNOW, and small town folk just have never gotten the message.

I've lived in other cities, and from what I seen Portland has been the safest I've ever been in. Sure, I wouldn't want to be stranded by myself on SE 82nd at two in the morning, but downtown is another story. They have been focusing a police effort there to keep it clean, and it shows. I honestly don't feel that convention-goers should worry, however your post and Animeman73's blog post are both excellent sources of information for those who would feel more comfortable being prepared. Like I said, I think maybe a page in the convention booklet addressing attendant safety would probably help a lot of people feel more comfortable while visiting the convention.

(Although, should this be implemented, I IMPLORE you PLEASE, do not make it sound scary! Take the approach that being prepared is always a good thing, but don't give the impression that people need to walk around frightened.)

[murder_of_raven]

This is Animeman73. I've been hearing a lot of people talking what they can do to stay safe.

I think that this discussion has devolved to that point, yes, but I was /never/ talking about my own personal safety nor am I not smart enough to put together a half-dozen common sense ideas. The point I was trying to make is we're looking at 6000+ people, half of them girls, most of them young, and nearly all of those who are both cannot afford to stay at the Hilton because it is incredibly expensive. There is a point where personal responsibility only goes so far and I was trying to point out that we as a convention should be doing a lot more to protect our attendees, especially if we insist on being in the middle of downtown, with one of the least understanding, most unhelpful hotel staffs I've ever interacted with. My suggestion was that we should acquire some sort of official buddy system, for those girls who might otherwise fall through the cracks and end up alone at 2AM in a sketchy part of downtown. I was certainly not asking to be berated and treated as though I couldn't put it together how to keep myself safe. In conclusion,

I know I am gonna sound horrible for saying it but I honestly don't care:

Yes, yes you do. Thank you for taking the last of a series of posts out of context and making it that much more likely the convention staff would ignore my suggestion. I hope that everything works out for Kumoricon, but I fear that many people carry your same paradoxical view that somehow downtown Portland is somehow safe at night and simultaneously "even if it weren't" it is solely the responsibility of the individual to protect themselves.

[Animeman73]

Easy everyone, easy. Let's not start anything negative here. Murder_of_raven, it was never my intention to berate anyone. I'm just simply offering up advice on how to stay safe. If you have anything to add put it in the comment box at the bottom of my post and be nice about it. I'm more then happy to listen to other people's view and get suggestions on safety. As a matter of fact I've mentioned a buddy system in my COMMUNICATION IS MUST and THERE'S STRENGTH IN NUMBERS...REALLY THERE IS maybe not directly but it's there believe me. Animeman73 is many things but I'm no liar, if I tell you something you can take it to the bank.

And Scrum Yummy XD oh that was good, that was very good. Touche' my good fellow Touche', you win. 

[murder_of_raven]

Easy everyone, easy. Let's not start anything negative here. Murder_of_raven, it was never my intention to berate anyone. I'm just simply offering up advice on how to stay safe. If you have anything to add put it in the comment box at the bottom of my post and be nice about it. I'm more then happy to listen to other people's view and get suggestions on safety. As a matter of fact I've mentioned a buddy system in my COMMUNICATION IS MUST and THERE'S STRENGTH IN NUMBERS...REALLY THERE IS maybe not directly but it's there believe me. Animeman73 is many things but I'm no liar, if I tell you something you can take it to the bank.

And Scrum Yummy XD oh that was good, that was very good. Touche' my good fellow Touche', you win. 

I was not directing any of those comments at you. That is a very good list of suggestions, but it is only that. In most convention settings we would be fine with just some general safety thoughts, I however believe this venue requires some additional effort from the convention itself to make it safe. I meant you no offense. :3

[AllyKat]

(Although, should this be implemented, I IMPLORE you PLEASE, do not make it sound scary! Take the approach that being prepared is always a good thing, but don't give the impression that people need to walk around frightened.)

Thanks for the praise, and I agree, we should bring this up at a future staff meeting, perhaps key this in for the Staff
meeting in November? I also agree that it should be semi-light hearted while informative. Thats why I like keeping
my options full of friendly positives, like a canister of pepper spray in baby pink! or perhaps your costume hints of
neon orange? Forest green? They really do have a million colors to choose from! And also, the idea of staying in groups
and the buddy system makes sense for Convention fun anyway! I mean, who'd want to wander portland alone durring
the convention when there are 5k+ people who are looking to have fun and interact with you!

@Murder of Raven:

Your contention of Convention Responsibility as it applies to security of attendees really doesn't make sense from a logistical standpoint. Convention staff and hotel staff are limited EXPLICITLY to securing the hotel grounds and the hotel grounds only. You may even contend that, on the side walk, people have the freedom to do as the please because in all truth, sidewalks are public property. We cooperate with Hotel Security and Yojimbo because it makes sense. But there jurisdiction is voluntary to us, and a very gray area for them. If an altercation occured on public property, like the sidewalks, it becomes there duty to simply call for police assistance and then report and respond in a peaceful fashion. Citizens arrest aside, once out of the Convention space, any security that it provides are just average joes like you and myself.

While no one wants to hear the words "liability" again, it bares repeating. Your safety is your concern outside of the convention space and the coocoon of populous and security it provides. Because they are not trained officers, and because they are not civil servants, if they were to try and disperse a situation themselves for you, they themselves could arrested or reprimanded for causing a seperate altercation! No one but the police (and yourself in the case of self defense) have authority to stop a predator. There are many cases where boyfriends of victims have gone to jail for manslaughter or other violence crimes for protecting someone who could not defend themselves, because in the blind eyes of justice, the attacks were seen as "unprovoked". While this may not occur in most cases, it is something to remember as each and every security staffer is just a volunteer, and honestly would probably not do anything that put themselves in harms way so much as to fight off an attacker, or protect you in a way that could cause them to be sent to jail for fighting. They would most likely do what any person should do if they see a crime; call the police and make it known that the police are on there way.

Also; you should know that under 13, (honestly under 15 but con rules say...) young girls (and young boys for that matter) should NOT be anywhere alone, this means that if you are going out to Quiznos for a sandwhich, and you leave con-space, it's your own perogative if you want to leave behind your gaurdian, the convention can't stop you. But it's a good idea to keep your parent with you for just such reasons. Above the age line, if you are a minor and out by yourself or with a small group of friends late at night, you should know that you are putting yourself in danger. If you cannot afford a hotel room, then you need to make prior arrangements to have a chaperone or a large group together to make sure you get home safely. The convention provides a hotel space for secure rooms that are within their jurisdiction. If you choose/cannot utilize this tool, it's a hard fact that there really isn't much else they can do for you except tell you to be careful and look both ways when crossing the streets, both figuratively and literally.

Honestly there is no real way the convention staff would ever be able to come up with a "buddy" system, they are short staffed as is, and stretched thin legally speaking when it comes to Security. You are upset, understandably, that situations occured which cannot be changed or taken back that affected your Convention experience. I respect that and am sorry. However, you state that this was never about your personal safety, and yet you consistently take matters personally, instead of looking back at the situation objectively so that your concept has time to be well thought out from all angles. If my feelings were not so, and I was merely playing the part of devils advocate, I'd have to conclude that you had not looked at this theory logistically and are also not open to it's criticism. This is like saying: "Here's a problem I saw, fix it this way, I don't care if it doesn't make sense, my answer is the only one that can work to make me happy." Which is all fine well and good, but probably wont get you much face time with the Board as they will ask and repeat the same answers many people have stated here. That will probably in the end simply frustrate you and make you less likely to come up with an alternative solution to stat quo that actually IS plausible and helpful. Which I would love greatly, because I understand, for tweens and teens, stat quo is not ideal, but with knowledge and information, it's better than other alternatives.

And I also appreciate you understanding that I actually do care when I sound horrible, but my intention in that statement was to say "I am putting aside my carring to hopefully provide a concise informational about the options that have been open to me and that I have utilized and found effective in the situation you are presenting as a problem." I was not intending to mock your plight or make you feel small. I in no way intended to placate you with a "paradoxical view" of Downtown Portland. However, I may have been misleading in my optimism that, since I have never come into any altercation myself in the area, and that I -having more than just visited downtown and actually worked and lived nearby- may know a bit more about the situation that perhaps you do, think that the area is not as dangerous as some of the other options we had in previous years. The danger simply seems more apparent for one; because of the dense population of a small space. And second; it is a very commercial area and you tend to be out later in places where businesses permit the extended stay of patrons.

I earnestly hope I did not make it any more or less likely your proposition is presented to the board. Seeing as the forum is barely a legitimate sounding place for such implimentation of security protocol, the offering of secure alternatives for minors after dark in Downtown portland should be something you present at a Board meeting or to Yoji #1 his/herself. Which brings me to a very key point in the entire issue here:

CURFEW: It is in place for a reason, and while you may not see a difference between Midnight and 2AM I certainly
do. Those drunkards and waywards you fear leave the bars at this hour and you can bet your bottom dollar a cute little fantasy costume looks mighty appetizing, after several drinks when inhibition takes a back seat. For future reference, Portland City Police enforce a metro-wide curfew of 12AM for any and all under the age of 18. The Convention also enforces this rule as they are in Portland limits and in closer contact with PPD then ever before. If you are out past curfew -which you better not be because If I were to catch any minors out, they'd get a stern talking to. I don't tolerate that kind of abhorance to safety and common sense- you better be prepared for the consequences honestly. No one said you should be out that late, nothing is going on that late for you to do that couldn't be done the next day or with a parent to gaurd and watch you, and in THAT instance itself, no complaints to the Convention staff need arise.

If you are honestly calling for the increased assistance from convention staff to help minors BREAK curfew, I am afraid your pleas will most likely fall on deaf ears. This is curfew law in portland:

14A.80.010 Curfew.

A. It is unlawful for any minor to be in or upon any public property or public right of way between the hours specified in this Section, unless such minor is accompanied by a parent, guardian or other person 21 years of age or over and authorized by the parent or by the law to have care and custody of the minor, or unless such minor is then engaged in a school activity or lawful employment that makes it necessary to be in or upon any city property or public right of way during the hours specified in this Section.
For minors under the age of 14 years who have not begun high school, curfew is between 9:15 p.m. and 6 a.m. of the following morning, except that on any day immediately preceding a day for which no public school is scheduled in the City, the curfew is between 10:15 p.m. and 6 a.m. of the following morning.
For children 14 years of age or older who have begun high school, curfew is between 10:15 p.m. and 6 a.m. of the following morning, except that on any day immediately preceding a day for which no public school is scheduled in the City, curfew is between 12 midnight and 6 a.m. of the following morning.

So, above 14 years old you can be out till midnight, though I'd tell you that common sense should have you planning to be home and safe well before you hit that mark. Under 14 and I have a huge issue with you #1 being out past midnight in and of itself, and #2 being out without a gaurdian REGARDLESS of time, con rules require and adult so why would you walkabout without one elsewhere?

Those that "Fall through the cracks" as you put it do so by not heeding proper laws, and by disobeying common sense. You know it's getting late, the fact that it is pitch black out tells you so. You know shops are closing and the only places open and permitting you should only be allowing those of a certain age. If you are heading to a club and exiting afterwards, your own words say you know common sense enough to use a buddy system of your own. You don't need another person to tell you that or do that for you, certainly not convention staff. So, I honestly don't see your arguement here, was there a piece I missed? By the way, been reading this one since the begining, so you can't say I pulled it out of context, I answered the question you asked which was "What can the convention do to help me be safe outside of con space." And we told you; "Nothing but provide you with common sense rules to keep yourself safe."

In the end, I think we all just need to remember that we are ALL con-goers and we are all hoping for eachother safety and the best convention we can have! no need to be upset over the dispursal of ideas about ways to solve situations that present themselves... each convention year is different! I hope we get a lot of what went wrong, right this year!

~Allykat

[ScrumYummy]

Alleykat, I'll be at the October meeting, but in case I don't make it to November's, please bring it up XD

sketchy part of downtown

Pioneer Courthouse Square/the banking district are hardly sketchy. This is the last time I'm going to say this--the current con location is actually "safer" than the Doubletree in the Lloyd District. Please stop making this area of town out to be a big bad monster, because honestly, it isn't.

[murder_of_raven]

@AllyKat: Although I am unable to currently respond to your comment, I have read it and agree that you are being rational and thoughtful, although I certainly do not agree with some of your conclusions. For now, I would simply like to verify that I never was suggesting the convention help people break curfew laws, I was instead speaking of our age group, 18-22+, many of whom would be virtually indistinguishable from the age group directly below us (14-18) in the eyes of a predator but who have decidedly more of a right to be out past curfew.

@ScrumYummy: This seems confusing considering never have I heard so many people on the forums complain about being harassed. Perhaps being downtown for so long (an entire long weekend) attracts predators who wouldn't normally be in the area. That certainly seems logical to me.

[AllyKat]

Pioneer Courthouse Square/the banking district are hardly sketchy. This is the last time I'm going to say this--the current con location is actually "safer" than the Doubletree in the Lloyd District. Please stop making this area of town out to be a big bad monster, because honestly, it isn't.

LOL Yeah, if you want scary, head over to my old residence at 122nd and Division on the S.E. side... I was fortunate enough to on a P.O.S. that looked like it was destine for a scrap yard any day, but every one of my friends and neighbors always seemed to be replacing a window and stereo... and we called the cops on a gunshot we heard in our Apartment complex... cops came and literally told us (my friends the apartment managers and I);

Cop #1
"Well, if one of the tenants never comes around to pay rent... and you can't get a hold of them by phone, call us back and we will enter the premises with you incase it's a homicide."

Cop #2
"Or if you get a complaint of a rotting meat smell or something, it only takes a few days for a body to go real bad."

I am not kidding you, scared us all to death! Lol, but I have always considered Pioneer Square to be the ritzy, safe
section of portland, maybe only second to the pearl district in it's security, but thats only cause the pearl has a lot of money to throw around on all those cameras and things.

@Murder of Raven: Thanks for understanding! And I am totally okay with you not agreeing with me on any of my points! Thats what makes debate and deliberation work! If you agreed with me on everything, we'd never end up getting a stalwart solution to a problem we both see. I only see one plausible and logistical solution, but the fact that you are coming up with alternatives and we are deliberating them means that there are other ideas out there, we just have to find them. I appreciate you making me aware of your age demographic, as now your comments make much more sense in terms of curfew. 18 to 22 + (a.k.a. young adult women) do indeed have a serious concern on there hands when it comes to safety late at night, but as adults I think we can conclude that "If you want something done right, you are gonna have to it yourself!"

What we need to come up with is some kind of proveyor of secure lines of traffic, destinations and also perhaps saleable security goods. A Station that also sells rape whistles (I carried one around with me late at night durring highschool when I would attend Speech & Debate tournaments at College Campuses) and pepper spray as well as information on well lit or well populated routes to get to and from destinations that are frequented by con-goers.

Does that sound more effective?

~Allykat

EDIT: I repeated myself.... lol

[CassieR]

Thanks AllyKat for all your points.  Cause you're right, it mostly comes down to liability.

Murder_of_ravens - I personally am very concerned with the safety of female attendees, and I know the execs are as well. We will definitely batting around ideas on how to help attendees feel more comfortable next year walking around, though we always have to be worried about our liability, as our 'authority' (what little we have) absolutely stops at the door. So we can't really set up an official buddy system, because if something happened, we'd be in a lot of trouble legally.  But, perhaps we can help facilitate an attendee volunteer run one.  I know many colleges have sort of a "call for someone to walk you home" program, and perhaps if attendees wanted to set up a buddy system (perhaps via the forum) we could help make that happen. That's just an idea. And we've got a year now to throw around ideas. Or maybe we could have a meeting point for walking to the trimet stop, where we could post the times of the Max.  Though don't we have a max stop right outside the hotel now? That would allow people to connect to the main max line I think (but I haven't used that yet).

Anyways, this is a concern for next year, and its always good to hear your ideas on how we could solve this.  Perhaps if it comes to just needing some attendees to do it so that its not an "official" thing, you'd be interested in helping to make it happen?

[murder_of_raven]

But, perhaps we can help facilitate an attendee volunteer run one.

I am not sure why this idea didn't occur to me but it seems to solve all our problems quite nicely. I don't know how much help I can be (seeing as I live in Eugene most of the year and am of course in need of this sort of buddy system) but if there's anything I can do to help make this happen, anybody should feel free to contact me.

And on the subject of the MAX line: I have two things to say about this. First, the Pioneer Square transit stop is a lot sketchier than I think people would like, 24-7 really. Its worst at night but I guess its not ever really /dangerous/. I think the buddy system thing should focus largely on getting people to and onto the MAX, which seemed to be the biggest problem. Secondly, the MAX stops running really early on Sunday (11PM I think?) which wasn't posted anywhere and sort of screwed over a lot of people, like myself. Luckily I had a ride but I watched young people who didn't have rides go off alone in a bunch of directions. Kcon should really try to warn people about that next year.

@AllyKat- Thanks for the concern you've shown, personally I will be ratifying many of my little mistakes next year (specifically I will obtain pepper spray and a cell phone) but I did get perhaps a little hysterical about protecting others. I really love the idea of having a booth in the dealer's hall selling safety things like that, I think that'd be a really smart idea. And weirdly, I come from NE Killingsworth with is technically "one of the most dangerous places in PDX" but I feel /way/ safer there then Pioneer Square, any time of the day. I don't really know how to explain that one

[AllyKat]

But, perhaps we can help facilitate an attendee volunteer run one.

I am not sure why this idea didn't occur to me but it seems to solve all our problems quite nicely. I don't know how much help I can be (seeing as I live in Eugene most of the year and am of course in need of this sort of buddy system) but if there's anything I can do to help make this happen, anybody should feel free to contact me.

And on the subject of the MAX line: I have two things to say about this. First, the Pioneer Square transit stop is a lot sketchier than I think people would like, 24-7 really. Its worst at night but I guess its not ever really /dangerous/. I think the buddy system thing should focus largely on getting people to and onto the MAX, which seemed to be the biggest problem. Secondly, the MAX stops running really early on Sunday (11PM I think?) which wasn't posted anywhere and sort of screwed over a lot of people, like myself. Luckily I had a ride but I watched young people who didn't have rides go off alone in a bunch of directions. Kcon should really try to warn people about that next year.

@AllyKat- Thanks for the concern you've shown, personally I will be ratifying many of my little mistakes next year (specifically I will obtain pepper spray and a cell phone) but I did get perhaps a little hysterical about protecting others. I really love the idea of having a booth in the dealer's hall selling safety things like that, I think that'd be a really smart idea. And weirdly, I come from NE Killingsworth with is technically "one of the most dangerous places in PDX" but I feel /way/ safer there then Pioneer Square, any time of the day. I don't really know how to explain that one

I Think a lot of what makes downtown so scary to people is the oddities around it. Homeless people abound as well as street folk. Pioneer Square is just a great place for them to beg and pawn and be, lots of warm bodies, close to the burnside bridge (and basically home) and plenty of money carrying folk with a good chance of giving some of it up. The natural vicinity to the main bars and clubs also makes it a keen area for vagrants.

My personal aversions aren't towards these people though, and I can see how, if you DID have an fear or hesitant response towards even just a few of these folks, it must be 10x as hard to walk through Downtown at night. Whereas, in Killingsworth, you probably worry about the gang and race wars (this is from a friend of mine who had to explain to me the issues in Killingsworth, never really been to N.E. that often, cause there has never been anything up that way that I need ^_^ Unless it's Cost-co!) And in S.E. I worry about the criminal activity and more Teen violence. To me, these are more dangerous due to there organization, however other people may see these types of crimes as "don't get involved and it wont effect you". I say similar about vagrants, so in all points, we are both right! It just depends on your personal feelings and how safe you feel there.

I'd like to know what was said at the end of the years staying at the double tree in regards to safety and security. Those would be close to the years where late at night, that same park would be ravaged by TXT GANGZ. Those people who would text there friends a descrip, meet at the park, find someone in resemblance to that descrip, and beat the bloody pulp out of them. I remember working late at Llyod center and having to have a guard take us out to the MAX or our cars in groups because the police didn't know when it would happen until it was too late.

I don't know where I was going with that except that I wonder how the perception was after those years in terms of security outside the convention.

In terms of a buddy system, perhaps it can be more of a destination travel group. I like the idea of it being utilized for people hopping on the MAX and Bus Mall to get home but... what about food and bar trips? This could extend out that far as well and provide people a great deal more comfort going out after say 10pm? If someone is interested in this kind of scheme I could probably work on coming up with a list of destinations (like the concierge would have) that are close by, check them for well lit and secure areas plus populous, then have these be the "Buddy routes" and Allow groups that want to go to these certain areas to meet up at certain places with directions and a planned destination. The worst way to be prepared for an altercation is to not be prepared on your trip. If you know where you are going and have a group going with you, that increases your well being and security a lot!

I can't think of a real way for this to be implimented except maybe as a print-out for people before the convention with locations and information on places for entertainment, plus the neccessary "how to get a group together" pamphlet.... but thats as far as I've gotten on the concept. On the side of a security booth, perhaps we can convince a local sports or security shop to set up some kind of booth at the convention, this might provide the tools we need and the knowledge base for them without taking up valuable volunteer team time? Just a thought.

[ScrumYummy]

Allykat hit the nail on the head; there are a lot of weirdos/creepy people that go through that area looking for spare change, but they are pretty well harmless.

And I hate Lloyd Center. >_>  Haha, I live in NE too, on the south end of 7th (in Irvington). A lot of people react to that with "and you walk around there at night?!?" but it's actually not bad at all. We have a few "shopping cart guys" XD  but they take turns wandering the neighborhood, lol.

Anyway, back on topic, I personally think a page in the con book would be best; if you have people selling "safety gear" attendees might wonder if there is actually a need for it o_o   and it might end up being a giant scare. (By "need," I mean that there are places where you REALLY SHOULD have mace on you at all times, and downtown is not one of those places, although there is nothing wrong with being prepared).

And yeah, if volunteers organized a buddy system, maybe they could have a little booth with hand-outs or something. The booth could be volunteer-run, but maybe the con could allow them to be there (in one of the front areas)?

[AllyKat]

And yeah, if volunteers organized a buddy system, maybe they could have a little booth with hand-outs or something. The booth could be volunteer-run, but maybe the con could allow them to be there (in one of the front areas)?

My only concern with a buddy system booth is that it basically plays out one of two ways:

Option #1: Schauffer/Host/Escort service? You walk up to the booth, tell them the location you want to go to, and
then a volunteer escort takes you there, and then walks back alone? or stays to pick up other people and bring them back? Is there a walkie system so the volunteers //themselves// dont have to walk around alone? Or do they get a buddy too? Also... how many people are we expecting to volunteer for this kind of thing... especially convention attendees... they aren't gonna wanna walk the max route for 4 hours in a shift... and that would mean you'd need 4 people (at least) volunteering at all times, 2 to watch the booth, 2 to be escorts... so thats a lot of volunteers... which is possible, but not probable.

Option #2: Someone steps up to the booth, gives a desired location and there phone number/room number or a way to reach them, and then they simply wait for other people who would like to go to this place and are then contacted by the Buddy Volunteers that there group is ready, and then they go to wherever they want to go. This seems plausible and probable on paper... but for people with off hours destinations, or needs dis-similar to others... it may be awhile or never before someone else joins a group with them large enough to be considered "safe".

I dunno... maybe I'm over thinking it... I just see a lot of hurdles for the year ahead in this circumstance. It's easy for me to dismiss the problem myself... as none of this would really help me or my friends... but I also don't want it to get swept under the rug. If people are getting negative feelings about K-con due to the surronding area, we can't ignore it, we have to address it, even if it's a minority. We are a con for fans by fans after all!

On the subject of a security booth - you are absolutely right Scrummy m'dear! Creating paranoia and fear is just as bad if not worse then the actual threat. Still, something has to be done right... I guess a page in the con book is the best we can really do... I was hoping for something more forward and invasive to get people to actually notice... but... this'll have to work... (providing we are actually able to GET a page in the con book...)

~Allykat

[kylite]

note: quite a few of the big burly yojimbo have volunteered to assist with this
walking alone for them aint no big deal

[RemSaverem]

note: quite a few of the big burly yojimbo have volunteered to assist with this
walking alone for them aint no big deal

I thought about asking one to help me head home to the PSU dorm then thought that could be read the wrong way 

[murder_of_raven]

Allykat hit the nail on the head; there are a lot of weirdos/creepy people that go through that area looking for spare change, but they are pretty well harmless.

This continues to perplex me. The people I had trouble with downtown were /entirely/ late-20's drunk men who obviously had homes and such. The homeless population is indeed harmless; if they were to say, kidnap you, where would they take you? How would they get there? The drunk men lurking about transit centers and such seem to be much more of a threat, considering they are at best hecklers and at worst active predators.

Anyway, back on topic, I personally think a page in the con book would be best; if you have people selling "safety gear" attendees might wonder if there is actually a need for it.

I think that hardly has to be the case. Very few people would consider downtown late at night "completely safe" and these people couldn't be scared at that point. For the rest of the convention, a small, friendly, and unimposing booth could serve as a calm reminder to stay safe (perhaps even providing safety advice as seen on some of the previous posts on this board) and discretely provide safety items to young people who didn't consider the situation enough to bring something like that along (I fell into this category) or are simply not sure where to obtain some of these things on their own (Certainly if I am unclear where to buy pepper spray, certainly some other young adults don't know either). I am not suggesting we have an enormous booth with giant "DANGER" signs all over it, just a little table off in the corner somewhere. Perhaps it could even be combined with the "Buddy Booth"?

My only concern with a buddy system booth is that it basically plays out one of two ways:

I totally agree that we run the risk of going into one of those categories. Instead I think we should organize like Option 2, but have very specific designated routs to a small handful of important areas. Yes, it lacks the versatility of either of your scenarios, but it would be the easiest to organize and, considering there seems to be no option that would actually provide /convenience/ we should continue to focus on safety. I would recommend a common one to the MAX, one to an area that has the highest concentration of restaurants, and one to maybe a popular bar or something. Certainly we don't want to do more than 4 or 5, else we'll run into the "Option 2" problem of people having to wait extremely long times until a full group is assembled.

[/quote]

note: quite a few of the big burly yojimbo have volunteered to assist with this
walking alone for them aint no big deal

That would be quite literally ideal in my eyes. Even a large, creepy, drunk dude probably wouldn't mess with a large group of people that included a "burly yojimbo"

[MichaelEvans]

Two cell-phone carrying adults (visibly old, or at least 20's males) are probably also OK for a few blocks, especially if it's just along the max-lines or a direct line of site to the hotel.  I effectively did that one night around 9-10pm when I grabbed some Mexican food from that slightly upscale place about 6 blocks away;  I know it's not hard core-drunkard time around midnight but the after-dark creepiness was sure starting to kick in.

I also think that stating the obvious, in -large- letters, would be a good idea.  Something that keeps it short and simple.

"Outside the hotel is public property.  Our staff can only call 911 and act as group deterrent/witnesses.  Further they are strictly volunteer."

[murder_of_raven]

"Outside the hotel is public property.  Our staff can only call 911 and act as group deterrent/witnesses.  Further they are strictly volunteer."

Definitely seems to negate many of the concerns with liability that we've argued about in relation to this topic.

[MichaelEvans]

"Outside the hotel is public property.  Our staff can only call 911 and act as group deterrent/witnesses.  Further they are strictly volunteer."

Definitely seems to negate many of the concerns with liability that we've argued about in relation to this topic.

Looking at it again with fresh eyes it still doesn't quite seem complete.  Maybe...

"Outside the hotel is public property.  Our staff are only normal upstanding citizens can only call 911 and act as group deterrent/witnesses.  Further they are strictly volunteer."

[murder_of_raven]

"Outside the hotel is public property.  Our staff are only normal upstanding citizens can only call 911 and act as group deterrent/witnesses.  Further they are strictly volunteer."

Well, I wasn't talking about the specific phrasing. I think that way is a little clunky as well. ::shrug::

[CassieR]

We could certainly include something on the rules and regulations page that is like that... the wording would have to be tweaked some to probably get the message across the best. It something that would need to be discussed with operations.

Actually, all of this is really something for the operations director to handle once they are elected, but its great to keep the ideas coming. Whatever we put in place or help get set up with attendees, will not be perfect. And unfortunately we have to be careful not to stretch it too far. Already, just this discussion has gone from getting people safely to the max so they can go home, to discussing food and bar runs. We won't be able to please everyone, and personally I'd like to focus on just helping our attendees who'd like to stay later for events but are worried about how to get to the max/bus/etc. Late night food runs are a whole different subject, and really one thats best left for groups of friends and personal situations. And ordering in. Never forget that option.

[RemSaverem]

I agree that the Ops Director would logically be involved in this discussion, but I would not think it to be logical to hold without conferring with the convention's attorney, in case there are issues of legal liability involved.

[CassieR]

I agree that the Ops Director would logically be involved in this discussion, but I would not think it to be logical to hold without conferring with the convention's attorney, in case there are issues of legal liability involved.

Absolutely. Unfortunately we must remember that legal trouble could make Kumoricon go bye bye, so we are all very careful about liability. Its great to talk about what we'd like to see happen, but we always need to do the legal reality check.