Live Drawing and JPN 101 Panel?

[Mykath]

I put in an application this year for a Live Drawing panel but it wasn't accepted (they never told me but a lack of an answer...). However I remembered Kumoricon had a forum (derp) and I'm curious if anyone would be interested in a couple ideas I'd be willing to host (and if there is interest, I will be putting in applications for next year). Suggestions on how to run these or word them better or something would be great also. I'm open to all kinds of ideas.

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Live Drawing Panel
It'd be a 1.5-2 hour panel for those interested in art. The idea is to have between 2-4 preselected kumoricon attendees (1-2 male, 1-2 female, with bodytypes that would represent those like in manga/anime. I already have them selected) sitting and standing, while convention attendees, sit around them and will quickly sketch out poses. It's basically a mini figure drawing class. I'd plan on first talking about how to draw quickly and demonstrate, and the models would be in positions between 1 and 10 minutes per stance. All that would be required for attendees is a writing utensil and paper.

I really feel that anime conventions should be more about art than they are (I'm an art major hur hur of course I feel that way), and I feel that something like this would peek quite a few peoples interests. It'd be limited to room size, so probably no more than 20-30 could attend, unless we got a large room. Also, the need to bring pencil and paper may be a bad idea, but maybe I'd buy some copy paper and a bunch of cheap pencils for it?

Also, if you guys are curious to the body types I have, the guys are super skinny/tone, and (maybe) military-buff, and the girls are athletic and super curvy. I would think those are the stereotypical bodytypes, right? They would be wearing swimsuit attire or gym attire, depending on the vote of staffers. I personally think that as long as we stay in accordance to Kumoricon's dresscode, it should be fine.

Edit: Changed description to better fit the adjusted plan.
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JPN 101 Panel
I assume a panel like this has been at Kcon before (or maybe even still around I dunno!) but I have taken Japanese for 5 years thought it might be fun to run a panel based on it! It'd be an 1-2 hours long (anything longer could get boring), but I would teach either really useful stuff for going to Japan, or phrases that are often used in anime. I think going over honorifics and hierarchy would be informative as well. However, I haven't thought this one through as well, and really you guys would know better than me what you'd want to get out of it!

Edit: In general these two things are what I'm good enough at that I think I could run a panel for. If you guys want something else that involves Art or Japanese, throw ideas my way. I really want to host at least one panel next year.

[reppy]

I'd probably check out the Japanese panel. ^^  I took a year of Japanese in college; I want to continue it, but as it already stood I didn't even need to take any language classes for my degree.  xD  Anyways, I think it'd be cool.  You'd want (IMO) a good variety of silly and serious.

[Mykath]

Yeah, I took 3 years in highschool and two in College (just finished up with what I needed for my degree). I'm not taking anymore so this may also be a good way for me to stay in it. >_>

[RemSaverem]

Hi, I'm Ellen, Fan Creation Manager. Jaki & I talked about your app for your live drawing panel back at the April meeting. She was planning to talk to you about it. Our room is pretty full of programming (fanfic, art, craft, and improv programming) & also includes a 2-hour Traditional Drawing class run by one of our core staffers, who is a very talented artist and formally studies art in school. So it's fine with us that you are not thinking about it for this year any more.There were extensive conversations within the Creation Station crew about how to respond to your panel suggestion, though of course ultimately it's all up to Jaki. We in the CS felt that while people would benefit from learning to draw human forms, that under no circumstances were we interested in people being there "mostly nude", nor in having any panel that would have that in the title or description. We did not want to draw a crowd there for prurient interest if the intent was to have a panel of serious artistic merit. Under no circumstances would we want to be in violation of the dress codes of the convention, the hotel, and the city. Though I am speaking as an individual here, & not as the con, I personally would've been OK with gym wear, but not with swim wear (and certainly no thongs <EDIT> because those violate the dress code). Models 18+ w/ID, but PG-13 rating (no reason for 18+ with enough clothes). Again, ultimately this was not up to me, but up to Jaki; however, from my understanding, were it to be offered at all, its home would be in the CS, so how my crew felt about it was pertinent.

[Mykath]

I completely understand your concern for the "Mostly Nude" title, and in retrospect a witty name might not have been the best interest of the panel. XD However, swimwear being out of the question less so. Does that have anything to do with last years Swimsuit Contest issues or do you just not think it appropriate for the con? (Just curious about it)

I'm still interested in hosting the panel this year if there is space, however. Time of the panel wouldn't matter, since I have no set plans. But if not I definitely will be applying next year otherwise. I was presumptuous and assumed everyone had been contacted already for accepted panels haha. I agree that the panel would belong in CS, and if I am allowed, it will be wonderful to work with you guys.

Sorry for the confusion and thank you for the response!

[RemSaverem]

Thank you for your compliment & openness to changing title & wardrobe.I wasn't in attendance at last year's Swimsuit Contest & didn't read the threads regarding it, so I'm only aware that something got out of hand & think that it had to be curtailed prematurely. It's not for me to say what's legally appropriate apparel within con space, simply to follow the guidelines set by the hotel, convention, & city.But if you're asking my personal opinion, as an individual, rather than as someone managing a branch of programming, I'd say that with so vastly many minors running around, & so many of them even younger than teens, no, I would not personally be comfortable with people running around in swimwear other than at the pool, nor with setting up an event, in a space designated for teaching arts, crafts, & writing skills, that's advertised as though it's a chance to ogle people in their swimwear.It happens to be the case that no matter what the content, I check in with intended first-time Creation Station panelists before considering their panels, to see what kind of background they have with the material they intend to present, how professionally they would present it, how reliable they would be to show up, be on time, be polite, be knowledgeable, answer questions raised by attendees, and so forth. So please feel free to PM me with that kind of information, providing it not only for yourself, but for any intended copresenter and also for any intended models, and include therein the age of each intended participant. [snip]So, again, I defer to Jaki on the overall topic, but hope to hear by PM of your qualifications. Thanks so much, & come meet us, either way!

[RemSaverem]

(MODS: Sorry to double-post, but the forums wouldn't let me add to the above.)
I don't want you to feel discouraged in any way. I want you to feel welcome to apply to run panels in Creation Station. But perhaps for this particular topic, let's see if you could revise the title and the event description and the way you run things to keep it feeling safe, PG-13, and entirely about art. I still don't know if you would be approved, for this year or any, but my hunch is that if you follow my suggestion, it would be more likely. I would like to see within Creation Station as complete as possible a set of how-to's for aspiring artists. Let's see what could work as serious instruction.

<EDIT> Yay! I got your PM & will reply to it; many of the other areas in which you have interest & experience would make great panels for the CS!

[camname21]

I only read half the post, so forgive me if you answered this but why no swimsuit dress?  That would be great if the whole nude/mostly was turned down, I don't know why we wouldn't allow swimsuits.  With this you could still show off the perfect anime body and not show anything that would draw in a crowd of horny boys (+girls?)

Thanks in advance for replying Rem ^^

[RemSaverem]

To reiterate: What I stated was that it was not my place to decide what was appropriate to wear within con space, that that was a matter left to the KC Board, the hotel, & the city. But that under no circumstances would I want anything in Creation Station to ever violate those codes, nor to be advertised as though they would do so. And that it was my personal opinion, as an individual, rather than as part of the prog staff, that bathing suits only belong in the pool area, due to the preponderance of minors & in fact folks not even in their teens. Moreover, my personal opinion is that whatever is offered as a serious art panel should be about the art. If it becomes about how much flesh is shown, it is not an art class, it is a spectacle, and that's not the same thing.

<EDIT> I'm applying the same logic to Creation Station's Body Painting for Cosplay panel. We're limiting the body parts to which paint is applied in the panel to faces, arms & legs and keeping the panel PG-13 for Kumoricon.

[Mykath]

As far as the city goes, I'm pretty sure swimsuits would be appropriate. Portland has multiple naked events in the city including the yearly Naked bike ride. I also believe it is legal for women to go topless in Portland (And maybe even all of Oregon? though I'd have to check for sources). But I know that's not for Kumoricon haha.

I am curious on the final verdict whenever that comes around.

[RemSaverem]

That won't be until next year, as we've agreed.

I know that at least when I first moved here, the way the law worked in Eugene was that a woman could be topless in Eugene anywhere a man could be topless in Eugene. But of course, stores, for example, still had the right to say things like "shoes & shirts required". So it doesn't matter to me that the city didn't waste a million dollars to arrest people riding their bikes naked as some kind of protest or event. It still doesn't make it appropriate to be what folks do all the time in all places.

For me, it's not even about whether anyone "could" get away with wearing a swimsuit while being part of a panel. It's about whether
(a) the wearing thereof is the sine qua non of the panel --
If someone doesn't want to run his or her panel unless the models are scantily clad, [edit] it's not about art, it's about swimsuits. So market it that way, and see if it flies, (outside of Creation Station).
or
(b) learning the art technique is the sine qua non of the panel--

In which case, gym wear that covers more of the body should more than suffice.

[Mykath]

Nah, I'm totally fine with Gym clothes. Really the point of the panel in my opinion is for newer artists to understand the need of real life references and to get a good foundation to learn how to draw from life. I was thrown into that hardcore when my class in college road the streetcar and drew those on it. It's a great way to practice people, actually, while riding public transportation. Sort of a tangent hahaha.

More than anything about the swimsuit thing is that I'm curious for curiosity's sake.

However, as far as gym clothes goes, what does that entail? Would males be wearing shirts? Etc?

(I was thinking about the selected wearing cosplay but I decided that would probably end in people drawing in the memory of the characters more than actually looking at the models. However fun it may be~ XD)

[RemSaverem]

Okay, this makes me more comfortable.
I do not feel there is a lot of benefit in getting into the nitty gritty of gym wear now, because (a) we're talking about something that would not take place this year, & (b) whether or not it takes place next year is not up to me but up to Jaki.

However, I do believe that in the pictures in the policy manual that the stipulations for being covered on top were about females and not the same for males.

Nah, I'm totally fine with Gym clothes. Really the point of the panel in my opinion is for newer artists to understand the need of real life references and to get a good foundation to learn how to draw from life. I was thrown into that hardcore when my class in college road the streetcar and drew those on it. It's a great way to practice people, actually, while riding public transportation. Sort of a tangent hahaha.

More than anything about the swimsuit thing is that I'm curious for curiosity's sake.

However, as far as gym clothes goes, what does that entail? Would males be wearing shirts? Etc?

(I was thinking about the selected wearing cosplay but I decided that would probably end in people drawing in the memory of the characters more than actually looking at the models. However fun it may be~ XD)

[Mykath]

Alright, thankyou! I feel like everything for me has been cleared up on my end.

[RemSaverem]

Alright, thankyou! I feel like everything for me has been cleared up on my end.

Ditto, & I look forward to meeting you.

[Kurohime]

To muddy the waters a bit, I'm of the opinion that most aspiring artists (especially fanartists) need to have a better understanding of the torso, which would make swimwear desirable over gym clothes.  They get arms and legs and heads well, and everything in between goes a bit funny.  I think the other thread suggested making it a late-night panel which would require ID? 

Just my two-cents.  I won't be much put out if TPTB decide that's not the right thing for this convention. 

[RemSaverem]

Again, I am only offering my personal opinion here, and am not the ultimate arbiter of whether this will be accepted when it gets re-submitted next year, which I imagine will largely have to do with how it is phrased in its new title and new event description. But personally, I am not interested in holding it as an adult panel, because that would be to imply prurient content, which I am not interested in seeing for this panel, and which would be more likely to draw gawkers than aspiring artists.

I do not know what you were thinking would constitute gym wear. I was thinking sports/jogging bra might be okay (though I would not be the person deciding this). From the few I have worn in my lifetime they certainly cover significantly more than the average bikini top.

[Kurohime]

When I hear the word "gymwear" I immediately think of loose shorts and T-shirts rather than sports bras.  And you've got a pretty good point that hosting it late at night could easily give people the wrong impression about the nature of the panel. 

[RemSaverem]

When I hear the word "gymwear" I immediately think of loose shorts and T-shirts rather than sports bras.  And you've got a pretty good point that hosting it late at night could easily give people the wrong impression about the nature of the panel. 

* nods *
The way I see it for now, and again this is really just a personal opinion which does not directly bear on panel acceptance for next year:
I would like to see people have the opportunity to learn more about drawing; hence Creation Station's new, 2-hour Traditional Art Methods class focussed on pencil drawing.
Several people who want to learn drawing techniques have stated that they would benefit from learning how to more accurately draw human figure proportions from the presence of live models. One possibility is that it moves to my concept of gym wear (sports bras of the type in which one could legally jog in public) & gets held in Creation Station, with the emphasis on traditional figure drawing for aspiring artists, with a PG-13 rating, in the middle of the day, right after Traditional Art Methods. Another possibility is that, rather than having the feel of a serious art class, there is a desire for it to feel like a fun, flirty environment, with swimsuits & 18+ attendance. It is possible that Mykath could frame it that way and ask that it be approved for an area of programming other than Creation Station. I don't know if it would get approved, but it is another possibility. IMHO, it's all speculation until after elections & staff position appointments & the announcement of the next year's con location & several other factors that might influence what may or may not be ideal for next year. I will help keep the idea of live figure drawing afloat if there is enough interest, and it will be interesting to see what emerges.

[camname21]

Off Topic -  I thought Oregon was letting women go topless now, like in riding a bike or jogging as you mentioned.  Just stores have the right to refuse, unless I'm thinking of somewhere else?


On Topic -  What about spandex bottom/shorts (Do they have shorts?)  I know it covers up everything and is vary tight so you could see some curves.  Would this kind of material impede the full visual effect of skin and lines?  I have not taken enough drawing to know/remember lines and shade on larger areas of the body, I mostly did detail work of hands and faces.

[RemSaverem]

Off Topic -  I thought Oregon was letting women go topless now, like in riding a bike or jogging as you mentioned.  Just stores have the right to refuse, unless I'm thinking of somewhere else?


On Topic -  What about spandex bottom/shorts (Do they have shorts?)  I know it covers up everything and is vary tight so you could see some curves.  Would this kind of material impede the full visual effect of skin and lines?  I have not taken enough drawing to know/remember lines and shade on larger areas of the body, I mostly did detail work of hands and faces.

I believe there is specific language in Kumoricon's dress code that excludes wearing anything that is either so tight, and/or, so sheer, that it has about the same prurient effect as if nothing were worn over the body part that it is obligatory to have covered.

[acton]

I like the idea of a live drawing panel but I would use Cosplay volunteers. I would not be interest in nude drawing. I am bit of a prude.

[RemSaverem]

I like the idea of a live drawing panel but I would use Cosplay volunteers. I would not be interest in nude drawing. I am bit of a prude.

There's nothing wrong with prefering to be comfortable in an atmosphere wherein folks are clothed.

[camname21]

Hang the prude!  JK!!!  Everyone has their own opinion, we all just have to live with them not being us.  Its so hard, huh?

Short shorts would work for bottoms, right?  That lets you see a lot of the leg muscles and most of the wait too.  Maybe we could do a theme somewhere on the lines of anime school gym uniforms 


(Why does this website say anime and cosplay are not words/spelled right?)

[RemSaverem]

Really, none of this is to be decided by me. But I would imagine that short shorts (hot pants?) would be in compliance with the dress code, if (a) they cover all the body parts required by the rules, (b) they are not sheer enough to show what must be covered, (c) they are not so tight as to show the lines of what must be covered.

[Mykath]

I like the idea of a live drawing panel but I would use Cosplay volunteers. I would not be interest in nude drawing. I am bit of a prude.

I also like the idea of cosplay drawing and other clothing drawing, and my picks would have clothes/costumes to choose from that they would bring along, if attendees would be interested in that. However, if I am getting what you say correctly, you're talking about volunteers from the 'audience'? My issue with random volunteers is that it is a difficult job and I would like to know beforehand if someone would be able to hold a pose effectively for up to 10 minutes and take it seriously. Otherwise, those who would be picked are cosplayers, so they could bring some of their cosplays with them!

And this panel is definitely not nude. It would comply fully with K-con rules. And I understand being uncomfortable with the naked form of people you don't know. First nude model i had was a whopper, and I wasn't entirely ready for it. XD

[RemSaverem]

It was so great to meet you! A couple of our folks from Creation Station will probably be at Akicon, and if so, hopefully they can check out your panel there. Congratulations! Let us know how it goes!

Jeni's Traditional Art Drawing panel was really well received, so there definitely is an audience out there for learning to sketch!

[Mykath]

It was great to meet you and the CS staff! Thank you for being easily approachable and not intimidating. It was a relief for me. 

I am really sad that I missed the traditional panel. Cons can get chaotic and suddenly it's 10pm and you have no idea how you missed everything. I am very glad it was well received.

[RemSaverem]

It was great to meet you and the CS staff! Thank you for being easily approachable and not intimidating. It was a relief for me. 

I am really sad that I missed the traditional panel. Cons can get chaotic and suddenly it's 10pm and you have no idea how you missed everything. I am very glad it was well received.

It was great! Not only did Jeni, the panelist, do a brilliant job, but attendees' work drawn in the panel was entered in the Art Contest, with one piece winning Best in Show! Please stay in touch between now and next year. Hearing you say how easily approachable you found me & our crew is really important! Thanks! Love to you.