RULES OF THE SWAP MEET - PLEASE READ (UPDATED 7-20-11)

[Bresslol]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to go over some basic stuff before you make a post in here!

- We're glad you want to sell/buy/trade your geek gear, but please make your own post if you want to do it. Making a push to sell your stuff in someone else's thread makes you look bad, and makes everyone else grumpy. A good idea is to preface your topic with (BUYING), (WANTED), or (SELLING), so that users can easily see what you are looking for or selling.

- Please use discretion with what you're selling. A good rule of thumb is to imagine this as the con's unofficial online dealer's hall, and hold yourself to the same standards of an at-con dealer, meaning no hentai, no bootlegs, and anything else that essentially violates copyright and trademark laws. IF you're questioning whether you should be selling the item, then, you most likely should avoid doing so.

ADDED 1/27/11 - Please refrain from bumping threads with "Updated!"-style posts. Instead, edit the first post of your topic and edit the thread title to include something like (Updated mm/dd).
_{Added 4/8/11 - Please note that posters are asked to refrain bumping threads at all by the forum code of conduct. The "Updated"-style posts are only one specific example.}

ADDED 1/27/11 - If you are going to meet up with someone to sell or buy stuff, awesome! Arrange a meetup via PM to reduce clutter on your thread and the forum.
_{Added 4/8/11 - Ditto to the above. Bumping threads by arranging meetings is only one specific example.}

ADDED 6/11/11 - If all of your stuff is sold, or you would like to otherwise close your thread, PM me and it will be done within 24 hours.

ADDED 7/7/11 - Hey! Awesome! You've found something awesome from someone's posting! Please PM them about what items you are interested in! This reduces needless posting on the forum and ensures everyone gets a fair shake to sell their stuff!

[ADDED 7/20/11, by JeffT - We're changing the rules a little bit. This forum area had always posed a minor dilemma because we don't want people bumping threads to directly or indirectly give their listing an unfair advantage. But on the other hand, there are legitimate needs to have conversation in the thread. Today we're making a change to try to make things easier and fairer. This forum area now sorts threads by their original post, rather than the last post. Therefore, we're loosening the rules about posting in the threads. Feel free to post in a thread saying you've updated the listings, or if you have a question for the buyer, or want to be a bit conversational. We might step in, just to keep things on-topic, if back-and-forth chat goes on for half a page or a page, or if there are excessive "updated" posts in a short amount of time, or posts that just seem pointless--similar guidelines as elsewhere on the forum. Thanks. -JeffT]

[ADDED 7/22/11, by JeffT - It's back to the original sort order based on the latest post. Reasonable posts (including posts to say something is updated) and conversation are allowed in threads. I'll post some further clarifications in the next couple of days.-JeffT]

Thanks, and happy trading!

-Bressler

[JeffT]

I'd like to clarify the rule against hentai, because there are different contexts and meaning of the word. What the rule is referring to is "adults-only material", regardless of the genre, medium, or format. These are items with explicit, graphic sexual content or violence, and things that would get a rating of 18+, NC-17, AO, or have a label of "adults only". This is stronger than a label of 17+, or R-rated or M-rated content. Unfortunately if you list those items we will have to contact you and ask you to not include those in your listings. Sometimes this wasn't enforced in the past, but after discussion we must enforce this rule, keeping consistent with the way the swap meet is run at the convention.

If you link to an off-site page with your listings, or with additional listings, then the page in general must be suitable for viewing for all ages. If adult items are listed, then it is ok as long as the page solicits the transaction to complete outside of Kumoricon forums, and isn't just an isolated page that only makes sense if you viewed it from the Kumoricon forum thread. For example, if you have an anime store, it may have adults-only items in it, as long as the main site is suitable for all ages, but you would buy those items from the store, not by sending a PM on the Kumoricon forums. However, as part of the overall rule against listing adults-only content, you can't advertise a store or listings page that primarily specializes in, or lists, adults-only content.

[Coconutty93]

ADDED 1/27/11 - Please refrain from bumping threads with "Updated!"-style posts. Instead, edit the first post of your topic and edit the thread title to include something like (Updated mm/dd).
Added 4/8/11 - Please note that posters are asked to refrain bumping threads at all by the forum code of conduct. The "Updated"-style posts are only one specific example.

People aren't going to notice that your sales have updated though. More people pay attention to the Recent Posts page than the boards, so it's easier to catch people's attention by posting a reply that shows you've updated your sales page. Besides, that's what practically all of the sellers do, why would you just make them stop altogether? It seems a little unreasonable. 

Besides, clutter is going to happen, there is really no stopping it. And if it's a matter of space, can't you just delete threads instead of leaving them up "locked?"

[Bresslol]

ADDED 1/27/11 - Please refrain from bumping threads with "Updated!"-style posts. Instead, edit the first post of your topic and edit the thread title to include something like (Updated mm/dd).
Added 4/8/11 - Please note that posters are asked to refrain bumping threads at all by the forum code of conduct. The "Updated"-style posts are only one specific example.

People aren't going to notice that your sales have updated though. More people pay attention to the Recent Posts page than the boards, so it's easier to catch people's attention by posting a reply that shows you've updated your sales page. Besides, that's what practically all of the sellers do, why would you just make them stop altogether? It seems a little unreasonable. 

Besides, clutter is going to happen, there is really no stopping it. And if it's a matter of space, can't you just delete threads instead of leaving them up "locked?"

The fact of the matter is that bumping threads under any circumstance is not allowed as per our code of conduct.

[fleur_fraise]

Maybe I'm a little bit confused but you're making it seem like no one is allowed to bump any threads, meaning that no one can post in any threads? So people are supposed to make a thread and then walk away? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Coconutty93]

ADDED 1/27/11 - Please refrain from bumping threads with "Updated!"-style posts. Instead, edit the first post of your topic and edit the thread title to include something like (Updated mm/dd).
Added 4/8/11 - Please note that posters are asked to refrain bumping threads at all by the forum code of conduct. The "Updated"-style posts are only one specific example.

People aren't going to notice that your sales have updated though. More people pay attention to the Recent Posts page than the boards, so it's easier to catch people's attention by posting a reply that shows you've updated your sales page. Besides, that's what practically all of the sellers do, why would you just make them stop altogether? It seems a little unreasonable. 

Besides, clutter is going to happen, there is really no stopping it. And if it's a matter of space, can't you just delete threads instead of leaving them up "locked?"

The fact of the matter is that bumping threads under any circumstance is not allowed as per our code of conduct.

"To bump a thread on an internet forum is to post a reply to it purely in order to raise the thread's profile. This will typically return it to the top of the list of active threads." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_%28Internet%29

I don't believe she was "bumping" her thread. She was advertising the fact that she had indeed added something to her selling thread.

[JeffT]

Hey guys, I'm gonna discuss this with the moderators over the next couple of days, and we'll review it. I'll post back here on whether the policies as written will stay the same or if they need to change.

[Coconutty93]

Hey guys, I'm gonna discuss this with the moderators over the next couple of days, and we'll review it. I'll post back here on whether the policies as written will stay the same or if they need to change.

Thank you.

[nyahaha]

So has this been resolved yet?

Because I would like to post in my sale thread that I added new stuff and reduced prices. It would be awesome if I could so it wouldn't go unnoticed.

[Coconutty93]

So has this been resolved yet?

Because I would like to post in my sale thread that I added new stuff and reduced prices. It would be awesome if I could so it wouldn't go unnoticed.

Agreed.

[nyahaha]

So are we just gonna be ignored? All I ask is for an update.
 I want my sale to be noticed. Not being able to post about an update is like having a garage sale, but not puting up the signs and expecting people to know where to go. They won't find it.

[JeffT]

Hi guys, I'll post an update within 24 hours. Sorry about the delays.

[nyahaha]

Thanks for the update! I appreciate it ^^

[Arrow]

I want my sale to be noticed. Not being able to post about an update is like having a garage sale, but not puting up the signs and expecting people to know where to go. They won't find it.

Yeaaaah. I second this.
Also. This is a forum... While I agree that we should keep chatting to a minimum on the Marketplace, but it's easier to keep track of who wants what if they post. Also, if people have questions we won't have a million people messaging us with the same requests and whatnot. Everything will be in one place to be noticed.

[Tanuki19]

I want my sale to be noticed. Not being able to post about an update is like having a garage sale, but not puting up the signs and expecting people to know where to go. They won't find it.

Yeaaaah. I second this.
Also. This is a forum... While I agree that we should keep chatting to a minimum on the Marketplace, but it's easier to keep track of who wants what if they post. Also, if people have questions we won't have a million people messaging us with the same requests and whatnot. Everything will be in one place to be noticed.

Another thing is its easier for the people buying/selling the things to see who got to what item first. If an item is already taken by somebody, we can see it clearly instead of messaging the seller, completely oblivious if the item was already called dibs on.

[@random]

Some of these points are well-made, and deserve a response regardless of what the final answers are. It might not seem like it, but you guys' input really is an important part of this. Thank you for talking to us about this.
However, please note that the following is only my personal opinion. It's not meant to reflect the final answers on policy, which are still up in the air.

Updates: Given the ability to edit in new information and/or highlight newer items, updates don't usually require a new post. But are there any specific examples that you guys can think of where editing the original post wouldn't be enough to convey the same information?

@Arrow: Definitely agreed. I don't personally think there's anything wrong with genuine questions that other people might also have about an item, i.e. "Does it have a elastic waistband?" But if people are asking the same question over and over (i.e. "What size is it?"), then that info should be edited in to the original post. And non-universal questions like "When can I meet you?", which are more common, are a different matter.

@Tanuki19: True, but a seller would be able to edit in info like "On hold for John Q. Public since 3/11." People would know that it's on hold and how long it's been on hold, which could be important because if it's been a long time the seller may be willing to take it off hold.

[Coconutty93]

The thing about only updating the first page is that people don't see check that everyday. What I see when I go to the Recent Posts page is somebody posting that they added new stuff, that brings me to their page. Or if you're just going to the Manga Swap Meet page you look for pages that say they've been commented in today(which is usually either a comment or an update of merchandise), but when someone updates their first page, that doesn't show up anywhere. It's like nyahaha said:

I want my sale to be noticed. Not being able to post about an update is like having a garage sale, but not putting up the signs and expecting people to know where to go. They won't find it.

[JeffT]

I've edited the original post with some new rules. Today, I made a code modification to the forum that sorts the Swap Meet area by original thread time, rather than the time of the latest post. That now allows us to loosen the rules about posting again. See the original post in this thread for details.

[nyahaha]

That seems like a good idea, but now my sale is on the 2nd page since I made it in January and just kept modifying it instead of making a new thread. Should I make a new thread for it?

[Bresslol]

EDIT: disregard post.

[fleur_fraise]

...So once you make a post you're done? One sales post and that's it, if you want to sell anything else then too bad? People don't go back through old pages, they just don't.

[Bresslol]

EDIT: disregard.

[Coconutty93]

That just makes it worse! Dx Now nobody will be able to find it! I made my thread earlier last year, and unless you allow me to make new threads every time mine gets pushed to a different page, this is not going to work because nobody will see any updates at all. :T

[Bresslol]

That just makes it worse! Dx Now nobody will be able to find it! I made my thread earlier last year, and unless you allow me to make new threads every time mine gets pushed to a different page, this is not going to work because nobody will see any updates at all. :T

I've brought the concerns up in the moderator forum and they will be discussed.

[Coconutty93]

Naw, it's cool man, I'll just not sell anything because my thread is on a whole other page and nobody is gonna bother looking for it. Totally cool.(<--sarcasm to the max). And I can't make a seperate thread because that would be "bumping." ANGER.

[StarryShay]

........ D:

What's the point of changing things around if it only makes people unhappy?

Has anyone actually benefited from this change?

[fleur_fraise]

This makes zero sense. Since I made a sales post way back last summer I can never make a sales post again?

[JeffT]

Unfortunately, this is how the forum is now going to work for the time being.

"Time being" will only be very briefly. I'll find a solution for older threads in the next few days. In the meantime, you can make new threads if it's selling different items, or the post consists significantly of new items.

[Coconutty93]

skdjagldkjfafhsdk;fshdkfhsd;kflh;sldhkfs;alkfhas;ldfh!!!!!!!!!

Ya know, I think it was better the way it was before ANY of the new rules were made. Why was it such a big deal that we made a post saying we had added new stuff? If it was because it took up space you guys can start by deleting abandoned or locked threads, because they're obviously pointless. Sorry about the rant but this is very bothersome.

[FateChooseMe]

........ D:

What's the point of changing things around if it only makes people unhappy?

Has anyone actually benefited from this change?

I completely second this.
These changes make no sense at all.

[Gryffinclaw Princess]

skdjagldkjfafhsdk;fshdkfhsd;kflh;sldhkfs;alkfhas;ldfh!!!!!!!!!

Ya know, I think it was better the way it was before ANY of the new rules were made. Why was it such a big deal that we made a post saying we had added new stuff? If it was because it took up space you guys can start by deleting abandoned or locked threads, because they're obviously pointless. Sorry about the rant but this is very bothersome.

QFT!


There was nothing wrong before.
No one was complaining and we were all happy with how things were. :/ None of us ever had issues until recently.
Why all of the changes all of the sudden? What is so bad about us all living in peace? It's not like one a handful of people did these things. It was ALL of us. We ALL posted updates and talked to our customers in our threads. It was how people saw we were active, saw we had new things for sale, saw that we didn't just abandon our sales to slowly die in the feed.

[Coconutty93]

skdjagldkjfafhsdk;fshdkfhsd;kflh;sldhkfs;alkfhas;ldfh!!!!!!!!!

Ya know, I think it was better the way it was before ANY of the new rules were made. Why was it such a big deal that we made a post saying we had added new stuff? If it was because it took up space you guys can start by deleting abandoned or locked threads, because they're obviously pointless. Sorry about the rant but this is very bothersome.

QFT!


There was nothing wrong before.
No one was complaining and we were all happy with how things were. :/ None of us ever had issues until recently.
Why all of the changes all of the sudden? What is so bad about us all living in peace? It's not like one a handful of people did these things. It was ALL of us. We ALL posted updates and talked to our customers in our threads. It was how people saw we were active, saw we had new things for sale, saw that we didn't just abandon our sales to slowly die in the feed.

QFT! Just learned what that meant, lol. >3>

[JeffT]

The idea I had in mind with the new sort order was that it would be sort of like Craigslist, but with discussion.

I am going to see if we can move "finished" threads into an archive area, so active ones don't get pushed onto the next page.

If it doesn't work, we'll definitely consider just going back to the original order and rules. We're experimenting here--but we'll settle on something that works.

[Coconutty93]

Personally, and I'm not trying to attack your idea, I'm just stating my opinion....but I hate the way Craigslist is set up. It's to hard to get an answer from people and I rarely ever go all the way down to the bottom of the page because I get sick of looking at the same old thing.

[fleur_fraise]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

[FateChooseMe]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

[Coconutty93]

Agreed.

[Cassiopeia]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

[Saki-the-cat]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

[StarryShay]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

QFT....desu.

[~boogiepop~]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

QFT....desu.

[nyahaha]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

QFT....desu.

[TalaRedWolf33]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

QFT....desu.

[Gryffinclaw Princess]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

QFT....desu.

[Lin]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

QFT....desu.

[Coconutty93]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

QFT....desu.

[iBubbleTeax3]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

QFT....desu.

[oslapedo]

I'mma let you keep nesting quotes but fleurfrause had the best point of all time. It's not like the traffic on these forums is ungodly high in the first place; there's only a few dozen regulars at any given time and even less so that check upon the selling threads daily.

[MiriaRose]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just sayin'.

QFT....desu.

Also, what Kanye over there said.

[JeffT]

It's back to the original sort order based on the latest post. Reasonable posts (including posts to say something is updated) and conversation are allowed in threads. I'll post some further clarifications in the next couple of days.