Author Topic: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!  (Read 8328 times)

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Offline bou12345318

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I was at the charity auction today, and there was a man who bought all 4 of the VIP Sakura con bages for like 200 dollars total and ripped them up in front of everyone....yeah....does anyone know why he did that and who he is?

Note: He was also at the Rant or Rave panel if you were there (The guy who was complaining about Sakura Con)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 09:48:22 pm by bou12345318 »
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Offline FateChooseMe

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 09:44:34 pm »
What the heck?
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Offline bou12345318

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 09:45:18 pm »
yeah after he did it the 2nd time he did get kicked out though...There were alot of people yelling....
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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 09:49:12 pm »
wtfbbq.

$50 each? I could have gotten one?  >:( And he ripped them up?
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Offline Jaminos

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 10:22:01 pm »
This issue has been taken care of. The badges will be going to good homes. Myself and another con attendant talked after the auction to the people responsible for it all and placed bids that exceeded his former bids. He only ripped up the certificate. The badge itself is to be mailed.

ON a personal note This was UNACCEPTABLE behavior of this guy. Not only is that a petty thing to do it is bad relations to our sister con. I hope the guy gets kicked from the con for good. Have your views that's fine. However ripping them up and saying and I quote "I just saved four people a bad experience" is asinine. I just went to Sakura con this year and had a blast. I am excited to go next year. I will fight tooth and nail to keep out relations strong!

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Offline MiriaRose

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2010, 10:43:03 pm »
I'm glad it got taken care of, then. :3

Also, you cosplayed Harry Dresden? AWESOME.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2010, 10:43:33 pm by MiriaRose »
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Offline Jaminos

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2010, 10:47:20 pm »
Yep I was Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden! Most successful costume I have done so far.
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Offline bou12345318

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2010, 11:05:48 pm »
This issue has been taken care of. The badges will be going to good homes. Myself and another con attendant talked after the auction to the people responsible for it all and placed bids that exceeded his former bids. He only ripped up the certificate. The badge itself is to be mailed.

ON a personal note This was UNACCEPTABLE behavior of this guy. Not only is that a petty thing to do it is bad relations to our sister con. I hope the guy gets kicked from the con for good. Have your views that's fine. However ripping them up and saying and I quote "I just saved four people a bad experience" is asinine. I just went to Sakura con this year and had a blast. I am excited to go next year. I will fight tooth and nail to keep out relations strong!

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Offline wolfy2491

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 11:46:28 pm »
Stupid douche guy. xP

Offline Cyprus

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2010, 07:07:23 am »
Wow...that is retarded...I wish I didn't have to leave town when I did lol. I would have totally out-bid him on those VIP badges...I love Sakuracon!

Offline reppy

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2010, 09:40:32 am »
Yeah I don't really understand that. ^^;  I'm all for some playful ribbing between fans of the cons, .. but that's a little ridiculous. ^^  Maybe he got banned from the con one year for being stoopit or something. xD

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Offline superjaz

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 09:44:53 am »
Yep I was Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden! Most successful costume I have done so far.
great Harry except 1 thing
tho harry doesn't do hats thats an error of the cover artist ;)
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Offline Jaminos

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 10:33:42 am »
Yep I was Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden! Most successful costume I have done so far.
great Harry except 1 thing
tho harry doesn't do hats thats an error of the cover artist ;)

Not an error at all. I did that on purpose. I know Harry never wore the hats however I always liked the hat they gave him on the cover. Also I did not have the long black hair. I am also not 6'6 only 6 ft. There are tons of little details you could pick on but that costume was thrown together in 3 days. The staff took the most effort for it had to be treated to survive the con and be at least a similar color. But anyhow I am a Hatted Harry Dresden fan. Every time I read the books I imagine the hat. At least I did not go as the TV version. I am not much for the Hockey stick staff and drum stick wand.

As for the reason the guy is upset about Sakura con. The reason as far as I understand, Is that the guy use to be a VIP for Sakura con for like 6 years in a row. People were abusing the VIP privilege and they changed the benefits to only cover a few things like the guest dinner and priority seating. While I would feel pretty bad too for forking out that much money for VIP only to get a few things I would not take it out on the con. It was not a decision they made lightly.

But as I said the tickets will be going to loving Otaku's who will use them to their fullest extent. What does that mean for me? The Sakura con Autograph line game! Bounce from person to person, just barely meeting fire code with people waiting in line.
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Offline RemSaverem

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2010, 03:01:27 pm »
Personally I'm a big fan of nonviolent protests and of performance art. I wasn't there, but I probably would have LOL'd.
If someone buys or wins something, it's theirs to use, or choose not to use, as they see fit.
No one would have been actually hurt by the action, if 2 VIP passes simply weren't used.
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Offline Jaminos

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2010, 03:26:28 pm »
That is what the rant and rave is for. Get your frustration out there. People actually wanted to use those. There is a line between protesting and barring people from something just because they don't want them to go. Not to mention it makes Kumoricon look bad. As I have said before. I would be angry if someone went and ripped up Kumoricon passes that someone actually wanted just to prove a point. 

The first time was irritating yes. But the guy crossed the line the second time by doing it again. Ok we get it, you do not like the con. Don't ruin the fun for everyone ells. Problem is solved though however. What has happened, happened. Regardless of what one person or even several might think I am going to Sakura con. I had fun last time and will have fun again.
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Offline superjaz

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2010, 03:40:10 pm »
Not an error at all. I did that on purpose.

oh no not you, I meant the book cover artist, they drew it like that not thinking about the hat and it looked good so they decided to keep it, Jim explained it once at a book signing
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Offline RemSaverem

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2010, 03:51:47 pm »
I didn't realize these were separate occurrences. I thought you meant he had them all in his hands & was stopped while trying to rip the 2nd one.
The fact that they were not actually badges, but just pieces of paper indicating that badges would arrive in the future, meant to me that it was only a symbolic gesture, not actually taking away from anyone any opportunity to do anything. The physical badges and the access they grant are still going to people who want them, and actually, I'm pretty sure that even if the physical badges were ripped up, it's so many months until con, there would have been plenty of time to manufacture and distribute more to folks who would really use them.

I would not see it as Kumoricon looks bad, because it was not someone acting in an official capacity as KC undertaking the action. Say someone stole a console from gaming. It would not mean KC was bad, the bad would be the action of the thief, although possibly what extra steps could be taken by KC to prevent theft would also be re-examined.

From my perspective, the food pantry (slightly unclear on who our precise charity was this year) gained that extra $200, and then perhaps even that additional $ from whomever bought the replacement symbolic pieces of paper to get the real badges down the line. The auction is really about raising the $ for the charity, so the individual put way more money than I would have been able to afford to have given, into the hands of people who are feeding the homeless or whichever underprivileged folks receive the food.
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Offline Sven

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2010, 03:52:09 pm »
Yeah I don't really understand that. ^^;  I'm all for some playful ribbing between fans of the cons, .. but that's a little ridiculous. ^^  Maybe he got banned from the con one year for being stoopit or something. xD

I was not there so I don't know for sure, but if it's who I think it is, he had good reason. He was NOT Banned and in fact was a VIP at kumoricon as well.

To everyone else: You may not like what he did but he felt it was justifed and he still gave good money to a good cause.
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Offline RemSaverem

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2010, 03:54:32 pm »
Yeah I don't really understand that. ^^;  I'm all for some playful ribbing between fans of the cons, .. but that's a little ridiculous. ^^  Maybe he got banned from the con one year for being stoopit or something. xD

I was not there so I don't know for sure, but if it's who I think it is, he had good reason. He was NOT Banned and in fact was a VIP at kumoricon as well.

To everyone else: You may not like what he did but he felt it was justifed and he still gave good money to a good cause.
Re: Point #1. That's a fascinating twist. Like he perhaps wasn't so much comparing the cons, as comparing their treatment of those who dish out to be VIPs.
Re: Point #2. Agreed that the charity still benefits. Curious whether this was a spur-of-the-moment decision or something pre-planned.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 03:56:02 pm by RemSaverem »
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Offline Saberchan

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2010, 04:10:36 pm »
I didn't attend the charity auction, but...dang, this was very immature. He may have felt justified, but that doesn't change how it made him look. (Maybe I should add selfish...) True, his money went to a good cause...And sure, I had one bad experience at Sakura-con '09, but that didn't stop me from returning...I don't think I could ever afford VIP...I would have taken one of those badges off his hands if he didn't want it...I'll be the judge if it's a 'bad experience' or not...

VIP privileges were abused? So what did the VIP badge benefits use to have?

Offline Jaminos

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2010, 05:27:57 pm »
I didn't attend the charity auction, but...dang, this was very immature. He may have felt justified, but that doesn't change how it made him look. (Maybe I should add selfish...) True, his money went to a good cause...And sure, I had one bad experience at Sakura-con '09, but that didn't stop me from returning...I don't think I could ever afford VIP...I would have taken one of those badges off his hands if he didn't want it...I'll be the judge if it's a 'bad experience' or not...

VIP privileges were abused? So what did the VIP badge benefits use to have?

From what I understand it use to have what Kumoricon has right now for the VIP's. However people were abusing the ability to cut lines in the autograph sessions (As one example). True it is not their fault that the rules did not say how many times they could do it but still. A little common sense does come into play. If there is a big line to an autograph session and can not take anymore and you keep cutting it to get more stuff autographed then it is taking someone ells's chance. I do not know all the details but if I have a problem with it I might voice my opinion but I certainly will not try to stop as many as people as I can from going to the con. I will say my peace once in a respectful manner and leave it at that.

As for Jaz yeah I knew all about the hat. Like I said I like it! It really made the costume feel complete. Every time I had it off I felt like I was missing 50% of the costume.

As for doing for it a good cause well the money will go for good use but I am still not happy with the intentions. I don't think we need to go into the discussion of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 05:46:36 pm by Jaminos »
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Offline superjaz

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2010, 05:28:51 pm »
@ at Rem, the charity auction had two lots of 2 sakura con passes each = 4 total passes
He out bid everyone for the first lot, saying all the time that he would tear them up, won it them paid and tore them up
I left soon after so I am assuming from this thread that he attempted to repeat this and after, attendees talked to the people at the auction and rebought them and paid, meaning the charity recived extra money for them
if nothing else this is sad for say some one who doesn't have much money being out bidded on possibly there only way to afford tickets to sakura con, only to see them torn up, tho I do understand if he had a bad experince, and the money that was his right.

VIP privileges were abused?

not on my watch!,
tho specific this is reffering to sakura con vip stuff  I don't know what there vip ticket entails I can guess things like letting a vip save a seat for a non vip friend would be abuse as its not fair to other regular attendees who don't have vip friends ,

but for kumoricon there is me! and I do my best to make sure things run smoothly for the vip program

  
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Offline Jaminos

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2010, 05:36:00 pm »
Jaz I was a VIP for this year as you well know and I can say that this experience was a 100% better then last year. Not to say last year sucked. Last year had issues that were Hilton staff and not really anyone on the con staff's side. I had zero issues the entire con. However I did not see as many maids this year but the staff was more educated with VIP's this year.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 05:45:29 pm by Jaminos »
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Offline RemSaverem

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2010, 07:23:01 pm »
Wow, Jaz. Thanks for the details. I guess if he was saying all the time that he was going to rip them up, it wasn't spontaneous, and since he was allowed to continue to bid, that was effectively saying, Well, if you win them fair and square, then that is your right, to rip them up.

Given the current economy in the Pacific Northwest, and the likelihood it will only get worse G-d forbid, I totally understand that it could have felt rough for those for whom bidding in earnest might've been their only way to get the item. But if the point of the event is to get as much money as possible for the charity, accepting the money from the highest bidder is the logical choice.

I want to clarify here, I am not saying I think this was a good idea for the person to do. I am simply not reacting the same way to it as others who got upset by it, and am trying to point out some silver linings that might soothe some hurt feelings.
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2010, 07:31:24 pm »
The issue, as I heard it, was this: At the time of the previous auction, the VIP badges offered at that time were represented to offer the bearer/winner the privilege of short-circuiting ANY line to ANY event. You want in, walk right in. Line or no line, overriding any sort of ticketing, etc.

However, during the interval between paying to secure this privilege and the beginning of the previous Sakuracon, Sakuracon changed its terms: now there would be a VIP 'line' rather than the original privilege offered, which was: the bearer gets to CUT the line. NOW.

Evidently, he only found out about the change when he got to Sakuracon, and felt he had gotten ripped off.
So he feels that Sakuracon changed the terms of a valid deal, after the deal was done.

Quote from: Jaminos
This issue has been taken care of. The badges will be going to good homes. Myself and another con attendant talked after the auction to the people responsible for it all and placed bids that exceeded his former bids. He only ripped up the certificate. The badge itself is to be mailed.

This is unethical, in my opinion. The issue is a NEGATIVE right, such as property rights ('Get off my land,') or patents. I was once on a project where our sales guy was supposed to sell my invention to a customer. The proceeds of the sale would pay my engineering time. But the customer offered him a job at their group where he would attempt to duplicate my invention for a salary collected by him, instead of paying me for my ideas, time, and expertise.

My response was to secure a NEGATIVE RIGHT - so I wrote up 3 patents on my invention, and paid $15K in legal work and fees to the US Patent Office. What did I gain? The NEGATIVE right to prevent him and the customer from building or selling MY machine. It was never built, and I succeeded in cratering the whole project. That's what they got for trying to screw me out of my invention and the patents are MY negative right to say NO - nobody gets to use the improved machinery unless *I* say so.

I feel that if the certificate offered any promises 'to the bearer' the honorable thing (imho) would be to let those privileges lapse. NO ONE gets them. It would be like if a car company offered an auction for Serial No. 1 of a certain car, and the auction WINNER (who happens to dislike the car company) decides to order his Car No. 1 shredded at a metal recycler. People may be aghast at the winner's wish, if but the car company is ethical then they will do what he commands even in sorrow that a unique, prestigious vehicle is destined to be destroyed.

Quote from: Jaminos
Myself and another con attendant talked after the auction to the people responsible for it all and placed bids that exceeded his former bids.

Okay, I may be sorry but this REALLY sounds sleazy and underhanded. You have an auction, the price is struck, the property (or the opportunity represented) offered is tendered to a winner. Then you have a second, off-line, closed-door deal, to alter the outcome, and transfer those rights to other people? You had better refund of his money, at the VERY least, because if you offer something (that he rightfully secured) to someone ELSE after this guy paid for it (even though he had no intention to use what he bought) - something doesn't add up here. You are counterfeiting the promises of the original certificate, which he rightfully won and chose to destroy.

In other words, had he known that Sakuracon would have jiggered the deal behind his back, he should have taken the certificates and stayed home - thus taking those badges and their privileges out of circulation - which was his original intent, at the price he offered to pay to see his will done.

So, shall we all know now that Sakuracon certificates do not convey what they promise, and that what you thought you bought for yourself can be transferred to other people they find more worthy? Or, will Sakuracon honor its terms, and take those privileges out of circulation, as the rightful winner of the auction intends?
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 08:11:06 pm by Prinz Eugen »

Offline RemSaverem

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2010, 07:57:11 pm »
Wow. I really hadn't thought of it that way, nor heard of that term, "negative right". I guess it's effectively a "right to negate"; a right to prevent someone from depriving oneself of something.

I would at least have thought that Sak would've let those who paid VIP prices know ahead of time of any major change such as the one mentioned.

While I understand everything you're saying, I would think, to follow from your hypothetical, that the car company would also have the right to react by choosing to also auction the second car off its line, so that the company, too, could get the outcome it intended (someone proudly coveting said car and proudly using it). By extension, I would then think it would be the right of Sak to choose to release additional, different VIP badges of equivalent value, and also auction them. Not the same precise badges. But new badges offering equivalent privileges.

It is ironic that this thread could potentially bring more attention to the change in policy at Sak than the actual act at the auction itself.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 08:02:41 pm by RemSaverem »
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2010, 08:23:25 pm »
Unlike everyone else who WAS there at the auction, I listened to the guy, & I feel he did have the right to be upset with Sakuracon.  Even the actions of ripping up the first pair he won was, to an extent, understandable.  However, I do feel that the second act of ripping them was quite uncalled for.

On a side note, one of the attendees reacted rather disrespectfully at his second act that should have warranted him getting kicked out, too.  I can understand his anger, but his screaming out fould language like that was not okay.  Now, a friend of mine was sitting in front of him (if I remember right) and pointed out that she was staff & he needed to remember that there were children there; he did appologize.
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Offline Jaminos

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2010, 08:28:29 pm »
Call it sleazy or underhanded all you want. If he wants his money back I will be more then happy to pay back the bid he placed to him. However this is as far as I am concerned over. The deal is done the money is payed and any further issues with this can be forwarded to me in PM's where I will gladly respond. This is beginning to turn into an inferno rather a discussion.
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Offline Rathany

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2010, 08:41:16 pm »
Since there may be a legal issue with what happened, I am going to lock this thread pending review of the issue with our lawyer.  I will make sure that any issue is resolved.

Please refrain from speculation and assigning fault until I have the full facts.  Thank you.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 08:44:28 pm by Rathany »
2003 - 2006 Kumoricon Attendee
2007 - Assistant Registration Manager - PreReg Side
2008 - Vice Chair
2009/2010 - Director of Relations
2011 - Return to Vice
2012 - herp derp

Offline Rathany

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Re: The guy who bought 4 VIP Sakura Con badges annnnndddd....RIPPED THEM UP!
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2010, 09:36:42 pm »
Due to server errors, this topic got unlocked and there was another post.  There are to be no posts after I lock a topic, so I removed it.  Please do not take advantage of the server problems to continue this conversation and possibly complicate the legal issues that I need to sort out.

Thank you.
2003 - 2006 Kumoricon Attendee
2007 - Assistant Registration Manager - PreReg Side
2008 - Vice Chair
2009/2010 - Director of Relations
2011 - Return to Vice
2012 - herp derp