Looking for Suggestions to improve Cosplay in 2011

[Runa]

Please tell us what you did and did NOT like about how the cosplay competition is run. Be specific, and if it's something you didn't like, then please tell us how we might be able to change it to make it better.

Thanks!!

[camname21]

Everything went fairly well, the only thing that was a meh was the early start sunday morning.  Getting up so early on the second day of the con was not hard but it would have been better a little later.  Also, I know things run late at cons, and it was in my favor actually because I forgot something at home, but it would be nice to have everything ready when we were suppose to start so we can leave sooner after the rehearsal.

[Runa]

Thanks for your input. Due to the need for the Main Events rooms for other things, we weren't able to have the rehearsal at a later time (believe me, I asked to have it later...). Hopefully this year we may be able to change the time of the technical rehearsal since we will be in two hotels, however if we've got other big events for Sunday, the rehearsal may still be forced into that time slot.


We're also pondering a way to allow a "popular vote" for audience favorite skit & costume. We haven't worked out the details, but please post your comments on the idea (like or not).

[camname21]

Well there are tickets for this event, what if the tickets had numbers 1-50ish on them and you announce the number of the skit as they go on and off.  Then at the end collect and count them, after a recap of course.  I wonder if there was a fast way to count the votes, like some sort of scan-tron for tickets...  The only other way is a raise of hand, but that doesn't work when a lot don't vote or people vote more then once.

[hieis_girl1]

The early morning was kind of a pain this year, mostly because we weren't able to get into the Main Events room right at 8...if we could get in right away, then it wouldn't have been so bad.

I like the idea of a audience favorite award. Would there be an audience favorite for each level? Or just one overall like the 'Best in Show'? It could be done similar to how the do the AMV awards, where the tickets have the numbers for each entrant. Then collect them all and count them out while the judges deliberate over the winners for the other categories.

[fleur_fraise]

I have three things that bugged me this year, although I feel bad for complaining because it's only my first year participating.

1. The prizes. It seems like the Cosplay Contest is the biggest competition at the con, yet we got the lamest prizes. I mean, for me I'm mostly proud of the bragging rights, but I spent a LOT of time and money on my costume, wig, makeup, etc and all I got was a plastic plaque and a pair of socks. And that was the best prize, too. Other gems included the second volumes of various unheard-of manga, wall scrolls (which were way too expensive for my "Kumoricash" anyways), and magazine inserts. This just seems ridiculous, especially because other contests and panels apparently had way better prizes, or so I heard.

2. The judging for the Best Novice Adult Group seemed... Unfair. The winners had costumes that (in my opinion) weren't as good as the Zelda group that was in the same category. The Makonas were also staff, I heard, which made it all make sense. I also heard that one of them was actually the Green Room Mom, which is absolutely ridiculous. I understand staff being able to enter, but staff who work directly for the contest should NOT be allowed to enter, and they should also not win over costumes that are far better than them.
That said, I wasn't at the judging so I have no clue what went into either of the costumes, but this really bugged me when I found out.

3. The music. This is a small issue, but my partner and I specifically told multiple people (including the sound guys) multiple times that our music needed to start while the MC was talking, and it ended up starting a few seconds after he walked offstage. Also, the couple that went before us didn't get their music at all, and they were in line before us to talk to the sound guys, so I know they had their music. It just seemed really unorganized.

Those were my three problems, but everything else went perfectly. The contest ate up a lot of the day, but that's to be expected, I suppose.

[camname21]

^The contests were based solely on the performance not including the costume looks, from what I understand.  The staff thing kinda bugged me, but not enough to think it was rigged (LoL.)  They however, were not my favorite over all.

[fleur_fraise]

I'm pretty sure the costume contest was based on the costumes not the walk-on. I'm not talking about a skit.

[camname21]

I'm pretty sure the costume contest was based on the costumes not the walk-on. I'm not talking about a skit.

oh heh, sounded like you were, my bad.

[Runa]

I have three things that bugged me this year, although I feel bad for complaining because it's only my first year participating....

"1. The prizes. ..."
I agree that the prizes were unimpressive. The prizes available are from donations provided to Kumoricon by various sponsors and vendors. (The socks were from Sock Dreams). I've discussed this with the Programming Director Jaki and she said that she will strive to get better and more appropriate prizes for Cosplay for 2011. If you've got suggestions for items that would make good prizes, please let us know either on this forum or at a Kumoricon meeting.

"2. The judging for the Best Novice Adult Group seemed... Unfair. "
This complaint seems to be regarding the Mokonas winning the Novice Adult Group instead of the "Zant and Midna" of Zelda pair. I assume that part of your assumption of the unfairness of the judging is that the Mokonas were created and modeled by Kumoricon Staff members and therefore the judges were automatically biased and chose them for reasons other than the quality of the costumes. This is not the case.  Generally speaking, the judges do their best to be as neutral as possible. The costumes are judged on quality of sewing, accuracy of details, choice of materials and to some degree the cosplayers' ability to act like the character portrayed. The judges have only 5 minutes (because of the large number of costumes presented, even this can be too long) to glance at the costumes and come up with a rating to be used in the final judging. There was much debate among the judges about which costumes were to be awarded the prizes, and we came to the best decision we could in the time allotted. I do not recall how close the scores were between the Zelda group vs the Mokonas (we don't keep the score sheets), but many times I've noticed that certain costumes look much better far away and on stage than they do when they're intensely close to you.

"3. The music."
I'm sorry that the sound guys failed to start the music when you specifically requested. They do have a lot of things going on, and can and do make some mistakes (they could have dropped the disks at a key moment  or fumbled loading it into the player so that it ended up starting late, or perhaps it was too dark and they couldn't read their notes about when to load your music). Same with the group before - there may have been a glitch in the system that prevented them from playing the music. They do their best, but they aren't professionals and they were likely more tired that you were at that time.

"Those were my three problems, but everything else went perfectly. The contest ate up a lot of the day, but that's to be expected, I suppose."
We try to minimize the amount of time that each individual contestant has to put into Cosplay, but everyone has a lot to do in order to make the show happen. Staff members and volunteers dedicate the complete day to working on Cosplay. We were happy to have so many contestants participate this year (nearly double the number of skits from last year). So thanks to all.

Any additional feedback or if you have more responses to the above, please let me know as this is the only way that we can find out what went wrong and what went right so we can continue to improve the running of our Cosplay competition.


Oh, as for putting act numbers in categories on the back of the ballot - likely this won't happen in that manner because the ballots need to be printed well in advance of Kumoricon. Unlike the AMV competition, where entries are due about 2 months prior to Kumoricon (and NONE drop out since all is recorded), we often don't know how many acts are going to be in the competition until we are nearly ready to go on stage as some drop out or never show up at the green room when it's time to go on stage AND we tend to obtain a good number of new additions during the pre-meeting. With a fluid distribution like that, we can't have a ballot pre-printed with all the information needed. We may do a partial ballot - such as have categories listed and the audience will write in the entry number for each. The counting of the ballots (given how long it takes for AMV competition) will not be finished early enough to allow us to announce the audience voted winners at the cosplay contest itself, so those winners will have to wait until closing ceremonies for the announcement (unless we can come up with some other method or time of announcing (maybe at the dance???)... keep posting ideas - we've got several months to figure this out.

[fleur_fraise]

Thank you so much for addressing my issues! I'm glad you took the time to respond :]

[Runa]

I've been offline for a couple of weeks - business trip + vacation + much overtime at work kept me away from the forums.  I try to respond to people's concerns as soon as I hear about them (and I cannot read/respond to the forums when I'm at work     )   
I hope I covered the topic sufficiently. 

[sandrobotticelli]

I actually liked how it was run for the most part. The only thing that I think would be a good idea is maybe time slots for rehearsals? Yes I agree with the others that it was a pain to get up early in the morning, however what bugged me a bit more was not knowing what time we were to perform and ended up being there for about three hours. Would it be at all possible to create time slots for the rehearsals on Sunday morning? Maybe give a little leeway in case of being late or technical difficulties? That's all I would suggest.

I also like the idea of the audience voting. Would the popular vote completely replace the vote by the judges then if this ended up happening?

[Runa]

I actually liked how it was run for the most part. The only thing that I think would be a good idea is maybe time slots for rehearsals?

I did timeslots for rehearsals a couple of years ago, and the Tech people demanded that I not use time slots!     So it's a battle between tech not wanting time slots and participants wanting them. I may try the modified time slot system I did for the costume judging - in which I didn't give specific times, just said that this set of costume entrants will be judged between time x & y... I'll discuss with tech people to come up with a system

I also like the idea of the audience voting. Would the popular vote completely replace the vote by the judges then if this ended up happening?

We won't be replacing the judges' voting with the popular vote, but adding to their votes to create additional prize categories. It will take a long time to count up the ballots from the popular vote...

[hieis_girl1]

The ballot voting could work, if you just have the numbers posted and announce the group numbers as each group/contestant goes up on stage. And in order to make sure all of the ballots are counted in time, you can have a few extra people helping with that; that way you would only have to concentrate on the regular awards for the contest.

[Runa]

The ballot voting could work, if you just have the numbers posted and announce the group numbers as each group/contestant goes up on stage. And in order to make sure all of the ballots are counted in time, you can have a few extra people helping with that; that way you would only have to concentrate on the regular awards for the contest.

Well, other than the fact that we need to print up the ballots about 2 weeks prior to the convention - and about 75% of entrants sign up AT Kumoricon.... so we won't KNOW the numbers to put on the back of the ballot until the night before cosplay... and therefore won't have time to get them printed. 
We do announce group # as each entry goes on stage... so the numbers are give, it's just we won't know them with enough advance notice to pre-print the info.  Collecting ballots and counting them can be a challenge. It usually takes about 2 - 3 hours to tally the AMV votes (even with 5 assistants).

[@random]

Just a suggestion; I'm not sure if it's quite the same as hiels_girl1's... would it be possible to have the ballots simply use blank spaces for each category, and leave it up to the voter to write the correct number?

Having definite time slots for rehearsals does seem like it would be an immense benefit for contestants; by any chance do you know specifically why the Tech people objected? If their reason is something that can be fixed with a minor sacrifice on the contestants' part, they might be glad to make the trade.

[Washougal_Otaku]

You know, there's something I'd like to point out from my experience in '09 that I didn't care for & sort of "crippled" what was originally planned.

I don't think the stage staffers should tell contestants where to go for their skit.  Our original plan was to have Haruhi go off stage at a certain point, then come back for a few seconds, leave again, & come back at the end.  The "stagers" shouldn't have had any right to say that we couldn't do it like that.

[camname21]

As for having to print the tickets 2 weeks early and not knowing how many are going to be there for making a tally.  All you would have to do is print 1 - 75.  I don't think the contest would have time for more then that, and we didn't reach that number this year.  I think it was 50 something, right?  Sure there would be numbers that don't go with anything, but it is fairly obvious that you just ignore them if the last announced number was 55.  (Or tell everyone it what numbers it stops at.)  Simple! 

Counting it would be kind of a drag for staff, from what you say it takes for the amv.  Ether way, I think that's the best way if there is no way to scan the votes.

[Washougal_Otaku]

^ When I helped out with counting the AMV tallies in '08, there were 5 or 6 others with me.  Once we each had our own things counted, I added the numbers together.  I'd say it took us 10 minutes or so, maybe 15...?

[Runa]

Washougal_otaku:    I agree that the staffers telling you that Haruhi couldn't go on/off stage in certain areas was a problem for your skit. Unfortunately, there likely was a very good reason  - safety.  Hotel stages are not permanent structures so typically we have areas of the stage where we don't want people getting near because of equipment, wires and other hazards that shouldn't normally be there but are. So the stage staff was only ensuring that you weren't going to a location that was dangerous.

Times slots for rehearsals: DEFINITELY will discuss with new tech crew once it's determined. They demanded that everyone be there so that they wouldn't have to wait on the "next" group showing up before moving on. They thing that if everyone is there then they can just go through the list without having to wait on anyone arriving... I know that the year we did use rehearsal times worked out quite well - the attendees were pleased - except for a few minor "glitches" where the tech crew did have to wait on more groups showing up... I think that's what they wanted to avoid - they thing that they'll get it all done sooner if they don't have to wait on anyone showing up. Another thing to keep in mind is that when we did have schedules, the tech crew was running late and people who had early appointments complained that they had to wait a long time...

Audience vote:   I discussed this with Jaki. She said she'd arrange to have about 10 volunteers (Maid Squad!) to collect the ballots  (given that the Main Events hall seats 950 people, that's approximately one person per 100 ballots to collect and count. We agreed that we could use the projector on the stage to display the list of skit names & numbers so that people would know which was which (since numbers are sometimes easily forgotten). We'd do the same for costume entries (remember: some costume entries are walk-ons, and some are seen only during skits, so this may be challenging at best).   

Also, one thing that I noticed was that this year the MCs forgot to mention which category the entries were in - that is, I didn't hear them mention which skits/ costumes were Novice Minor, Novice Adult, Journeyman or Master (there were no child entries, even though we do strongly encourage child entries). That needs to be fixed since each category is judged differently.

Finally, we did talk about having some of the guests be judges, at least for the skits (the judging of costumes takes about 4 hours, so I seriously doubt a celebrity guest will be willing to do it, but if so, we'll have him there....). We won't know for sure until we've picked the guests AND asked them if they're interested. 

If you have more suggestions, comments (like what did we do RIGHT?) that would be great   

[Washougal_Otaku]

They said it was because Haruhi needed to be visible for the camera; that was it.  It was nothing about safety.

[bunny_jean]

I feel like costumes should only be judged up close and with the sort of interview fashion that there is because there are a loooooot of details on great costumes that can't be seen from far away.

On the topic of prizes, I know that most people that make their own cosplays would loooooove to get prizes like gift certificates to places like Joann's or Fabric Depot or wig stores. Things of that sort. It would be nice to get back some of the money you spent on the materials. XD

[Runa]

I feel like costumes should only be judged up close and with the sort of interview fashion that there is because there are a loooooot of details on great costumes that can't be seen from far away.

That's EXACTLY how they've always been judged. The only reason each costume entry has a "walk on" is so that the audience can see the costumes that were entered into the contest but were not entered as part of a skit. The onstage time for a costume entry is NEVER judged. Some costumes look great from afar and on stage, but not so good up close and others just the opposite - because from afar you can't see all the intricate details or stitching quality.

When judging skits, Judges DO NOT use costume quality as part of the judging. The skits are based only on the quality of the skit itself.

On the topic of prizes, I know that most people that make their own cosplays would loooooove to get prizes like gift certificates to places like Joann's or Fabric Depot or wig stores. Things of that sort. It would be nice to get back some of the money you spent on the materials. XD

I will let the Procurer of prizes know to obtain some fabric store related prizes for cosplay winners.
Also, the "Best in show" prize is likely going to be free ticket to next Kumoricon (need confirmation from Programming directory, but pretty sure we can do that).

[bunny_jean]

I feel like costumes should only be judged up close and with the sort of interview fashion that there is because there are a loooooot of details on great costumes that can't be seen from far away.

That's EXACTLY how they've always been judged. The only reason each costume entry has a "walk on" is so that the audience can see the costumes that were entered into the contest but were not entered as part of a skit. The onstage time for a costume entry is NEVER judged. Some costumes look great from afar and on stage, but not so good up close and others just the opposite - because from afar you can't see all the intricate details or stitching quality.

When judging skits, Judges DO NOT use costume quality as part of the judging. The skits are based only on the quality of the skit itself.

On the topic of prizes, I know that most people that make their own cosplays would loooooove to get prizes like gift certificates to places like Joann's or Fabric Depot or wig stores. Things of that sort. It would be nice to get back some of the money you spent on the materials. XD

I will let the Procurer of prizes know to obtain some fabric store related prizes for cosplay winners.
Also, the "Best in show" prize is likely going to be free ticket to next Kumoricon (need confirmation from Programming directory, but pretty sure we can do that).

I definitely like the idea of a free ticket to the next Kumoricon for Best in Show.

[fleur_fraise]

That would be seriously awesome.

[camname21]

Great prize, will be vary deserved.

[Runa]

At the last meeting, Jaki said that a free ticket to next Kumoricon could be offered as the prize for "Best in Show".   w00t.   

[camname21]

Yay, more reason to get a really great show started for everyone to enjoy.

[bunny_jean]

Wooo!

[bunny_jean]

Just a question, if a group enters the costume portion of the cosplay contest can an individual from the group win best in show? Or would it be the whole group?

[Runa]

Just a question, if a group enters the costume portion of the cosplay contest can an individual from the group win best in show? Or would it be the whole group?

If members of the group each enter their costumes individually, then an individual could win Best in Show. If the whole group is amazing, then the group could win it.

Basically, if you enter as a group, you're judged as a group; if you enter individually, you're judged individually.

[bunny_jean]

Just a question, if a group enters the costume portion of the cosplay contest can an individual from the group win best in show? Or would it be the whole group?

If members of the group each enter their costumes individually, then an individual could win Best in Show. If the whole group is amazing, then the group could win it.

Basically, if you enter as a group, you're judged as a group; if you enter individually, you're judged individually.

Okay! Thanks!

[bunny_jean]

Oh, also, if two individuals enter their cosplays separately can they do a walk on together?

[Runa]

Oh, also, if two individuals enter their cosplays separately can they do a walk on together?

Yes, you just have to be certain to tell the Cosplay Manager (me) and also mention it to the Stage Manager & Green room mom so that we know you are planning to go on stage together.

[bunny_jean]

Oh, also, if two individuals enter their cosplays separately can they do a walk on together?

Yes, you just have to be certain to tell the Cosplay Manager (me) and also mention it to the Stage Manager & Green room mom so that we know you are planning to go on stage together.

Awesome! Thanks again! <3