Let's begin to discuss categories for the 2011 AMV Contest!!

[somanyturtles]

"I don't know how to remove the subtitles from my footage."

Actually, I wouldn't mind learning how to do that...

1) Rip footage directly from DVDs: There's a program to do that in the AMV app which you should have. If not here's a link: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtech3/

2) If you're downloading (which you probably are if you're having to deal with subtitles) start make sure you they're marked "RAW." Yes the files are usually bigger but they shouldn't have anything extra on them (i.e. watermarks, fansubs) that's not to say people are dicks or idiots and sometimes will mark them RAW but they aren't. Using this method you may also need a file converter to turn the RAW into something your program is compatible with.

3) Sometimes if the subtitles aren't super embedded into the file, converting them into another file type will take the subtitles away. That's how I was able to use the fansubs Guy gave me for the Iron Chef contest without having them littered with subtitles.

4) Move the track, zoom into the clip, or make your own aspect ratio to hide the subtitles.  Basically maneuver the clip so something (usually the black bar on the bottom of the screen) covers the subs. This method doesn't always work concidering that sometimes the subtitles cover 1/2 the screen so don't rely on it.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMYV6DhWC6o     Check out 3:45, if you know the series there's actually a time code on the original footage because it's a timed attack that need to be perfect. I had to zoom in slightly and move the track down slightly to hide it, or it would have looked really weird.

Basically the easiest and guaranteed way to get rid of subtitles is not to even get them in the first place.

[@random]

Yay - someone who doesn't say MUTE point!

Thank you. I suspect that like me, you'd also shudder when seeing someone talking about "bonified" truths? (^_~)

(Sorry, saw that today and it's still bugging me. One does not "bonify" something, unless one is an osteoblast!)

Generally we don't let roving mobs of fans maraud the contestants, and the 'community' opinion of anyone who submits an AMV is never used as a criterion do disclude or not select an AMV. Generally I do not inform the judges' panel of the creator real name or screen name, so unless someone shows that information in a bumper in the AMV, it is not considered.

If someone has been caught cheating, personally I'd have serious doubts about letting them even participate in a contest where people are expected to adhere to honorable standards. But I can also understand why as a matter of principle, individuals shouldn't be identified as submitters, so I can see where you're coming from.

[Washougal_Otaku]

1) Rip footage directly from DVDs: There's a program to do that in the AMV app which you should have. If not here's a link: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtech3/

AMV app...?  I'm not even sure what app you're talking about, so I'll just trust the link.  Thanks!

2) If you're downloading (which you probably are if you're having to deal with subtitles) start make sure you they're marked "RAW." Yes the files are usually bigger but they shouldn't have anything extra on them (i.e. watermarks, fansubs) that's not to say people are dicks or idiots and sometimes will mark them RAW but they aren't. Using this method you may also need a file converter to turn the RAW into something your program is compatible with.

3) Sometimes if the subtitles aren't super embedded into the file, converting them into another file type will take the subtitles away. That's how I was able to use the fansubs Guy gave me for the Iron Chef contest without having them littered with subtitles.

RAW, okay, I'll look for that.  Not sure what super embedded is, so hopefully I won't even need to worry about it.

4) Move the track, zoom into the clip, or make your own aspect ratio to hide the subtitles.  Basically maneuver the clip so something (usually the black bar on the bottom of the screen) covers the subs. This method doesn't always work concidering that sometimes the subtitles cover 1/2 the screen so don't rely on it.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMYV6DhWC6o     Check out 3:45, if you know the series there's actually a time code on the original footage because it's a timed attack that need to be perfect. I had to zoom in slightly and move the track down slightly to hide it, or it would have looked really weird.

Basically the easiest and guaranteed way to get rid of subtitles is not to even get them in the first place.

I've thought about that as a possible option before, too.

Thanks for the help!

[murder_of_raven]

Now what would the field of available video look like if you said ALL serialized works of the franchise (this excludes OVAs or one-shot specials) must have ENDED before date "x."

Granted this would knock out some stuff that started a few decades ago and are still running today as weekly broadcasts, (Detective Conan, One Piece, etc) and maybe about 4 or 5 other shows. But: is there enough other material out there to play with, especially if we us a "n years ago" defininition which can move forward in time automatically for next year?

There really doesn't seem to be an easy answer to this. Individual episode air-date is almost impossible to enforce (the judges are unlikely to notice and the majority of the audience is even less likely to /care/. if a solid retro-y AMV came on that totally disobeyed the rules it would still have a good shot at winning over the audience). Other than that, either of the other two (started before or started after) have positives and negatives and anything I can think of to off-set the negatives would make it overly complicated (ie, we could say anything that ended within x years of the date is okay so long as it started the same x number of years prior to a specific larger number...which is grossly complicated in practice ). I guess I don't have a real vote otherwise, although I think the "x years in the past" is a step in the right direction because it establishes a precedent we can stick to rather than flip-flop around next year.

[@random]

Now what would the field of available video look like if you said ALL serialized works of the franchise (this excludes OVAs or one-shot specials) must have ENDED before date "x."

Granted this would knock out some stuff that started a few decades ago and are still running today as weekly broadcasts, (Detective Conan, One Piece, etc) and maybe about 4 or 5 other shows. But: is there enough other material out there to play with, especially if we us a "n years ago" defininition which can move forward in time automatically for next year?

There really doesn't seem to be an easy answer to this. Individual episode air-date is almost impossible to enforce (the judges are unlikely to notice and the majority of the audience is even less likely to /care/. if a solid retro-y AMV came on that totally disobeyed the rules it would still have a good shot at winning over the audience). Other than that, either of the other two (started before or started after) have positives and negatives and anything I can think of to off-set the negatives would make it overly complicated (ie, we could say anything that ended within x years of the date is okay so long as it started the same x number of years prior to a specific larger number...which is grossly complicated in practice ). I guess I don't have a real vote otherwise, although I think the "x years in the past" is a step in the right direction because it establishes a precedent we can stick to rather than flip-flop around next year.

I'd like to echo my earlier comment that "individual airdates" is a moot point - also known as a dead horse. It's not the manner in which Guy wants to define cutoffs, and anyone who knows anything about the AMV contest (which includes myself) would be wise to defer to his opinion on AMV matters. The thoughts of one well-respected arbiter who knows what the heck he's talking about are worth a lot more than those of a dozen people who think individual airdates are an interesting idea... and there weren't a dozen, there was only one.

The fact that it's easy to look up 'most any popular title's airdates is completely moot, given that there's no way this would be used as the standard. It was simply an aside comment, because I have this weird compulsive need to correct inaccuracies (also known as being a know-it-all, not the best trait to have).


*starts looking for backhoe to bury horse*

[camname21]

hat if we set down a rule, how easy is it to detect that someone is 'gaming the system' versus not knowing himself what the broadcast
"I didn't know that a panty shot ten frames long is considered explicit!"

10 frames makes it unusable??  Good thing I haven't attempted to make any amvs for this, I'd never get one into the contest XD
Is that posted in the main rules, or are there a lot of unspoken rules like this for amv's??  I didn't read them all for last year.

[somanyturtles]

10 frames makes it unusable??  Good thing I haven't attempted to make any amvs for this, I'd never get one into the contest XD
Is that posted in the main rules, or are there a lot of unspoken rules like this for amv's??  I didn't read them all for last year.

I believe the actual rule is six frames, I just added to extra 4 for no reason, but yes that is on the rules page.

[@random]

10 frames makes it unusable??  Good thing I haven't attempted to make any amvs for this, I'd never get one into the contest XD
Is that posted in the main rules, or are there a lot of unspoken rules like this for amv's??  I didn't read them all for last year.

I believe the actual rule is six frames, I just added to extra 4 for no reason, but yes that is on the rules page.

Not disparaging the rule, just wondering - what does that translate to in milliseconds, and is it above the threshhold of "subliminal"? I know that it's reputed to be almost mythically difficult for Walt Disney to have caught one frame of proto-sexual content during a screening and fired the animators responsible, but I don't know what the comparative fps's are.

(If it makes sense of why I don't disparage the rule, it's because Japan has turned making panchira more explicit than full-frontal nudity into an art form. Kumori content has to be PG-13 unless it's "adult".)

[somanyturtles]

Most videos are 30 frames a second, so it comes down to .2 of a second.

[@random]

Thank you. (^_^) And yeah, that does seem noticeable.

[Washougal_Otaku]

*starts looking for backhoe to bury horse*

FOUND ONE!



There's something that I've never seen before (that I can recall, that is); rules on obscenities.  I'd imagine that there are some, I don't think that I've ever seen them before, though.  Do we have such rules right now, and what are they?

[somanyturtles]

The rules is "radio clean lyrics."

[Washougal_Otaku]

I assume you mean what the rules state, rather than what radio stations do, right?

[murder_of_raven]

The rules is "radio clean lyrics."

Uhhh, wait I think before we start repeating last year's rules we should make sure they are still valid for this year. I thought I heard something from Guy about the explicit lyrics rules potentially changing next year? And panty shots potentially not being allowed at all? I doubt changes like these are even really on the table for discussion, Guy will inform us all of this year's policies along with all the other rules

[Washougal_Otaku]

Hmm... okay then.

What about time?  Have there ever been time limits for how long (or short) an entrant can or cannot be?

[somanyturtles]

Uhhh, wait I think before we start repeating last year's rules we should make sure they are still valid for this year. I thought I heard something from Guy about the explicit lyrics rules potentially changing next year? And panty shots potentially not being allowed at all? I doubt changes like these are even really on the table for discussion, Guy will inform us all of this year's policies along with all the other rules

Well we were able to use whatever audio we wanted to for the Iron Chef contest last year, but that's probably because those were in the "after hours" block, and I'm very doubtful that Kumouricon executives will let us get away with whatever audio we feel like considering that the contest will be littered with kids and parents. Even still, most conventions have a rule similar to this so even with we did get a rule change for this con, you wouldn't be able to submit to any other contest without reediting your video. 

Also I highly doubt that anyone is banking on using .2 seconds of a panty shot to carry their video. If that gets changed there's no big loss at all.

What about time?  Have there ever been time limits for how long (or short) an entrant can or cannot be?

There's a limit of 4:40


Here's a link to last years rules if you have any more questions, i doubt there will be any major changes for this years contest so it'll be a good reference.

http://www.opusnet.com/guy1656/k2010-amv.htm

[Washougal_Otaku]

That kinda sucks for songs that are more than that.  Oh, well.  (I have one AMV idea that's 6:31 in length, but others that I'm sure are shorter; I'll have to look into it, though).

[somanyturtles]

That kinda sucks for songs that are more than that.  Oh, well.  (I have one AMV idea that's 6:31 in length, but others that I'm sure are shorter; I'll have to look into it, though).

Not totally. It takes a bit of work but it's completely possible to edit a song to fit the any time limits, and you should be able to do it in your editing program or in Audacity which is free. You can take out parts of guitar solos or drop the chorus if it's repeated twice in a row, basically take out what can be removed and still get the idea of the video across. For my entry last year I dropped a 7:11 song to a 4:30 song and for the most part you can't tell where parts where dropped.

[@random]

I actually saw an unavoidably-awkward edit segue used to excellent advantage in the Love Hina OP (Sakura Saku). The twirling Liddo-kuns they covered it with fit it so perfectly that it became a highlight.

But yeah, *cough* Categories for the 2011 AMV Contest? 

[Sui Fong]

I know b4 we were talking about the possibility of a "drama" category, but the concern was getting in a bunch of emo songs/amvs. I'm lazy, so I didn't read EVERY page to see if we've covered how we might deal with this, so I'm going to throw out my suggestion here. First off I'd say it might be good to limit how many amvs you can enter in this category, take it down to only 1. I know last year you could enter like 2 (or was it 3) in each category, with a cap on how many you could enter overall. I think limiting it to 1 will get people to really think about what they REALLY want in there. Maybe also a stipulation on the song and how closely it interacts with the "storyline" of the amv (not necessarily the plot line of the show, because there is the concern that not everyone has seen every anime out there, and someone might decide to do an amv on Majin Tantei Nougami Nuero, and like no one has seen it so they don't know where to begin to judge.). I think you'll be surprised at the types of songs that will come in, I don't think there will be a whole lot of emo stuff. I know the whole reason my sis wanted this category was because of an amv I did to 24 by Jem, which is definetly not emo.
Anywho, just putting it out there...

[Washougal_Otaku]

That kinda sucks for songs that are more than that.  Oh, well.  (I have one AMV idea that's 6:31 in length, but others that I'm sure are shorter; I'll have to look into it, though).

Not totally. It takes a bit of work but it's completely possible to edit a song to fit the any time limits, and you should be able to do it in your editing program or in Audacity which is free. You can take out parts of guitar solos or drop the chorus if it's repeated twice in a row, basically take out what can be removed and still get the idea of the video across. For my entry last year I dropped a 7:11 song to a 4:30 song and for the most part you can't tell where parts where dropped.

Not really the same when my original idea was to take a comedy sketch... maybe I can just find a shorter one to go with...

I know b4 we were talking about the possibility of a "drama" category, but the concern was getting in a bunch of emo songs/amvs. I'm lazy, so I didn't read EVERY page to see if we've covered how we might deal with this, so I'm going to throw out my suggestion here. First off I'd say it might be good to limit how many amvs you can enter in this category, take it down to only 1. I know last year you could enter like 2 (or was it 3) in each category, with a cap on how many you could enter overall. I think limiting it to 1 will get people to really think about what they REALLY want in there. Maybe also a stipulation on the song and how closely it interacts with the "storyline" of the amv (not necessarily the plot line of the show, because there is the concern that not everyone has seen every anime out there, and someone might decide to do an amv on Majin Tantei Nougami Nuero, and like no one has seen it so they don't know where to begin to judge.). I think you'll be surprised at the types of songs that will come in, I don't think there will be a whole lot of emo stuff. I know the whole reason my sis wanted this category was because of an amv I did to 24 by Jem, which is definetly not emo.
Anywho, just putting it out there...

Um, why against the emo music?  Some of it is pretty good.  Also, what would be classified as "emo"?  I know that's kind of a silly question, but I think it's worth talking about, if emo music is frowned upon.  I've seen some people consider "Tourniquet" by Evanescence to be an emo song, which I don't.

[somanyturtles]

The reason for getting rid of the "drama" category wasn't that we were "getting a bunch of emo songs/amvs" but more the category was becoming very stagnate, which is why the "tenson" category was spawned to try to breath life back into it. The reason we really didn't have that category in 2010 is because we figured that the videos we were getting could put into other categorizes and still hold their own, which they did (Look back at the judges choice video, pretty drama filled) Not having a category specifically for drama videos isn't saying that we don't want them in the contest nor does it say you can't enter one.

Even if we were to bring back drama or tension, limiting one entry per person really doesn't do that much. It would be completely unfair to make people with two drama videos they want to submit choose while someone with two comedy videos gets two chances to get in.

[murder_of_raven]

Going back to the Retro category... what do people think about making the rule "AMV anime must meet X date requirement AND/OR audio must meet Y date requirement" and thereby making de-saturation/vintage-effects optional rather than mandatory for an AMV that doesn't use an old anime and audio source? Just an idea but I think it might save people from some "I didn't want to make this black-and-white but it's the only way it qualifies..." situations.

[Prinz Eugen]

Going back to the Retro category... what do people think about making the rule "AMV anime must meet X date requirement AND/OR audio must meet Y date requirement" and thereby making de-saturation/vintage-effects optional rather than mandatory for an AMV that doesn't use an old anime and audio source? Just an idea but I think it might save people from some "I didn't want to make this black-and-white but it's the only way it qualifies..." situations.

Hey Gang - I have been slammed with work so I could read but have not yet had much time to post. I'll be back 'round with more activity in another day or two...

Anyways, MoR inspired an interesting rule to consider: (We can change the number)

The SUM of the ages of the audio and the video must be at least 30 years.

(Wait: Gregorian chant AMV ftw?!? )

[murder_of_raven]

The SUM of the ages of the audio and the video must be at least 30 years.

Wow, that actually sounds like a pretty wonderful idea. I personally think 25 years would be a little better but otherwise that takes two separate rules and simplifies them into one rule with more flexibility. My only additional thoughts are as follows: Maybe making your submission B+W could be worth 2 years or something like that? And regardless, we still need a final verdict on whether we are going with start date or end date.

[Washougal_Otaku]

The SUM of the ages of the audio and the video must be at least 30 years.

Wow, that actually sounds like a pretty wonderful idea. I personally think 25 years would be a little better but otherwise that takes two separate rules and simplifies them into one rule with more flexibility. My only additional thoughts are as follows: Maybe making your submission B+W could be worth 2 years or something like that? And regardless, we still need a final verdict on whether we are going with start date or end date.

I agree with raven: it's a good idea, but I think keeping the # at 30 is good, maybe even bigger.  (On average, that would be both checking in in 1996).  I like starting date, but that would would work better if we did go with a bigger number.

[murder_of_raven]

(On average, that would be both checking in in 1996).

No, that'd be both checking in at 1995, which would be pushing the date backward rather than forward. I think at the very least we should go with 28 to keep the cutoff the same but I went with 25 because it was the next clean number.

[Washougal_Otaku]

(On average, that would be both checking in in 1996).

No, that'd be both checking in at 1995, which would be pushing the date backward rather than forward. I think at the very least we should go with 28 to keep the cutoff the same but I went with 25 because it was the next clean number.

'95 would be for 2010.

[Washougal_Otaku]

Would it be possible to have a category in which the music is amateur-made, too?  I got this idea while hanging out with my new brother-in-law's family.  It turns out that his dad & step-mom make music, and I think some of it could make for decent AMV's.  I'm sure some others would agree with me, especially for any that also make their own music.

[Prinz Eugen]

There is no restriction on original music as long as the content (lyrics) are 'PG.'
(You get ONE swear-word max. per AMV.)

However, defining a category as 'original audio only' would drastically limit the pool of entrants to the intersection of {AMV Editors} and {people who make their own music} and {people who are interested in competing at Kumoricon.}

I have a hunch that the middle of that Venn diagram is going to be a very SMALL number of people. Then, these entries must be AS ENTERTAINING to the audience as the entries for the other categories. If there are only a few, and it takes at least two or three to really run a category, then the judges may be tempted to 'go easy' on those so as not to close a category we spent time advertising.

The audience will be just about guaranteed to have never heard the music before, and they will have to be adept at listening to words and correlating the lyrics with what is being shown.

Other comments?

[somanyturtles]

 While it's not really that hard to make a song on a computer program, I'd rather create another AMV than make a song to make an AMV around. My creativeness can only go so far.

[murder_of_raven]

Other comments?

I casually support this category but only because I am friends with a few members of a few local bands, one of which have a song I've been meaning to make an AMV to for a while anyway.

But I do agree there's a big potential for interest in this category to be very low.

[Washougal_Otaku]

But I do agree there's a big potential for interest in this category to be very low.

I honestly was kind of worrying about that, too, but who knows?  If I had a program that could make music without instruments (I think Nightingale is one), I'd totally be making songs with the sole intent of AMV creations.  That's just me, though.  I thought it'd be good to bring it up as a possibility.

[Prinz Eugen]

OK GANG -

The preliminary (let's say, semi-final) rules page is up for the Kumoricon 2011 Contest!

Here it is: www.opusnet.com/guy1656/k2011-amv.htm

Watch for a new discussion thread coming.
(I will ask an admin to lock this thread.)