june=pride month

[Nando-KiT]

Recently i discovered the June was offically named Pride Month.
I think this is wonderful, but some people ive talked to disaprooved of this act.
what are your thoughts


ok i relised after reading what you all have posted, that people think diffrently(i already knew this) and arguing is not so cool.
i would really appreciate that you only post here if its something nice, not the other way around. im sorry i just dont want people fighting on here cause then i feel realy bad that i started this.

[Jacob_Blackfeather]

It's fore of a meh thing for me really because they have like a thing for each moth and it seems they just want to put us up there with it.

[Nando-KiT]

true but still like that we have month like this.  makes me feel better about my self abit

[Jacob_Blackfeather]

I will feel better when gay marriage is actually legal saddly.

[Nando-KiT]

washington is!

[Jacob_Blackfeather]

that's if they don't repeal it to the supreme court

[Nando-KiT]

anouther reason i hate goverment. we`ll get gay marrage someday!

[Jacob_Blackfeather]

Yeah I hope so :3

[Nando-KiT]

i know we will

[Jacob_Blackfeather]

It all depends on the people.

[MiriaRose]

Because it's not like DOMA has been declared unconstitutional a million times and the Supreme Court itself would rule DOMA unconstitutional or anything, amirite? Scalia's not the only judge there.

To be honest, I think pride for something you're born with, like being queer, is incredibly stupid. Be proud of what you've achieved, not something that you were given.

inb4 homophobe accusations; I'm queer myself.

Here's something fun: The institution of marriage should be abolished. There's no need for it, really, and if you wanna get married "in the eyes of God" or summat, then go to a church or synagogue or mosque or temple or whatever suits your religion. Half the marriages that exist end in divorce anyway, and marriages and divorces clog up the legal system.

The only thing they're good for is making your SO legal if they're an "undocumented alien."

[Jacob_Blackfeather]

Because it's not like DOMA has been declared unconstitutional a million times and the Supreme Court itself would rule DOMA unconstitutional or anything, amirite? Scalia's not the only judge there.

To be honest, I think pride for something you're born with, like being queer, is incredibly stupid. Be proud of what you've achieved, not something that you were given.

inb4 homophobe accusations; I'm queer myself.

Here's something fun: The institution of marriage should be abolished. There's no need for it, really, and if you wanna get married "in the eyes of God" or summat, then go to a church or synagogue or mosque or temple or whatever suits your religion. Half the marriages that exist end in divorce anyway, and marriages and divorces clog up the legal system.

The only thing they're good for is making your SO legal if they're an "undocumented alien."

You make a good point thank you for pointing that out to me.

[Nando-KiT]

thats cool. the thread is about your opinion, glad you posted ^^

[Mew*Haruko]

Pride month for what? ^^"

[Nando-KiT]

gay pride month

[soundninja12]

Not to be rude or anything, Miria, but I disagree with your idea of Pride being stupid. I feel like having pride in who you are is kind of nice. And Pride festivals are beautiful, if you've ever been to one. It's just a bunch of people gathered together to show one another that they aren't alone in this gay-hating world.
I think that's actually fantastic.

I think that if Latinos, Blacks, and Native Americans can have their pride in who they are, so can us gay kids.

Also: Completely agree with you on marriage. I feel it should be abolished, and that something else should replace it.

[MiriaRose]

I never said I agreed with racial pride, either. I said pride for something you're born with is stupid. As for having pride in who you are. . I think you should be happy with who you are, but pride for things you're born with tends to cause hate and suffering.

gay-hating world

What.

Not saying that everyone loves gays and that there's no such thing as straight privilege, but what. The world isn't gay-hating. The U.S. is one of the few first-world countries were same-sex marriage is illegal, and like gay marriage, most first-world countries allow people of alternate sexualities to serve openly in the military. That doesn't mean there's no queerphobia in any of those countries, but in most places you won't get stoned for being queer. Besides, calling it a "gay-hating world" insults cis-straight people who actually do care about LGBT rights.

Also, semantics issue: LGBT is one hell of a lot more than gay.

And don't worry, you're not being rude! I don't mean to come off as rude, either, I just tend to be blunt, especially when I go into debate mode.

[reppy]

Here's something fun: The institution of marriage should be abolished. There's no need for it, really, and if you wanna get married "in the eyes of God" or summat, then go to a church or synagogue or mosque or temple or whatever suits your religion. Half the marriages that exist end in divorce anyway, and marriages and divorces clog up the legal system.

I would prefer we just move over to civil unions for all.  I don't really think the fact that half of marriages end in divorce is a compelling enough reason to abolish marriage/civil unions. I pay taxes for public education when almost half of all students will drop out of college. Even if you got rid of marriages, there would still be plenty of disputes that clogged up the legal system.  Why are people involved in the legal system after a divorce?  I assume they're fighting over custody, property, or money.  Getting rid of marriage won't fix that. ^^

Anyways, love who you wanna love! yeah! 

[soundninja12]

I guess my use of "gay-hating world" applies mostly to what I've seen.
I live in Central Oregon, which isn't exactly a big gay party boat. I know that we (we being the towns in the US that suck for LGBT people) are a small percentage, but that doesn't mean that those effected are any less impacted. People here are bullied, shrieked at, harassed, and forced back in to the closet. Being gay or transgender here can be one scary thing. It can mean anything from being booed off stage, to being threatened, or having your name carved in to a wall with "Is a big gay faggot" written underneath it.
My Nana won't even talk to me since I came out. She told my mom she was happy I was a test tube baby, so she knew I wasn't related to her.
People are stupid and ignorant. Maybe the whole world doesn't hate us, but there sure as hell are people that do, and they can make things terrible for gays, bisexuals, transgender and lesbians.

Fun fact time:
1) It is legal in 29 states to fire an employee based entirely on their sexuality.
2) It is legal in 26 states to refuse somebody service because of their sexuality.

[@random]

Even in the small towns there are still a lot of non-hateful people, quite possibly the majority. I know they're the overwhelming majority in places like Portland and Seattle. It's just that it's a lot easier to notice the shriekers... such as Westboro Baptist, who coincidentally came to Seattle yesterday to picket Mars Hill Church. (They're the #%&@wits who go to soldiers' funerals and scream about how their imagination of God hates gay people.) At least to me, the fact that they're one of the most viscerally-loathed groups in America says something about the entire world not being gay-hating.

Those of us who believe that it's beyond stupid to hate someone for the way they were born may not catch your attention the way the nutjobs do. But I'm pretty sure there are a lot more of us than there are of them. And we'd much rather see you be allowed to be your own person, unique in your identity... not defined by only one trait, not defined by the people who hate you, and absolutely not defined by being hated.

The world does contain people who are being eaten alive by their own hate and bile, and try to spread that to others - but that doesn't mean all of us are.

[MiriaRose]

Here's something fun: The institution of marriage should be abolished. There's no need for it, really, and if you wanna get married "in the eyes of God" or summat, then go to a church or synagogue or mosque or temple or whatever suits your religion. Half the marriages that exist end in divorce anyway, and marriages and divorces clog up the legal system.

I would prefer we just move over to civil unions for all.  I don't really think the fact that half of marriages end in divorce is a compelling enough reason to abolish marriage/civil unions. I pay taxes for public education when almost half of all students will drop out of college. Even if you got rid of marriages, there would still be plenty of disputes that clogged up the legal system.  Why are people involved in the legal system after a divorce?  I assume they're fighting over custody, property, or money.  Getting rid of marriage won't fix that. ^^

Anyways, love who you wanna love! yeah!  

You have to go to court to get a divorce, actually. My parents married and divorced in the same court room.   The fact that half the marriages end in divorce wasn't my only reason for abolishing marriage- It's just completely useless nowadays.

As for paying taxes for public education, that's something completely different- Especially considering most students drop out of college due to insufficient funds and for reasons completely different than the reasons for divorce.

I guess my use of "gay-hating world" applies mostly to what I've seen.
I live in Central Oregon, which isn't exactly a big gay party boat. I know that we (we being the towns in the US that suck for LGBT people) are a small percentage, but that doesn't mean that those effected are any less impacted. People here are bullied, shrieked at, harassed, and forced back in to the closet. Being gay or transgender here can be one scary thing. It can mean anything from being booed off stage, to being threatened, or having your name carved in to a wall with "Is a big gay faggot" written underneath it.
My Nana won't even talk to me since I came out. She told my mom she was happy I was a test tube baby, so she knew I wasn't related to her.
People are stupid and ignorant. Maybe the whole world doesn't hate us, but there sure as hell are people that do, and they can make things terrible for gays, bisexuals, transgender and lesbians.

Fun fact time:
1) It is legal in 29 states to fire an employee based entirely on their sexuality.
2) It is legal in 26 states to refuse somebody service because of their sexuality.

And I lived in Roseburg, Oregon, where one of my friends was constantly called a "nigger" in the hallways by people because of his skin colour, and it was seen as okay, and where people were beat up for their sexuality. That doesn't make the world black-hating or gay-hating.

Again, I didn't say everyone loves gays or that discrimination doesn't exist, I said that you're seriously exaggerating and assuming things based off of your limited experience.

Fun fact:
The world =/= The United States
Lawmakers =/= The people
Vocal hate groups =/= The majority

Don't assume that just because homophobia exists and straight privilege exists that every straight person hates queers and that we live in a "gay-hating world", because we don't. You're making assumptions based off of a limited experience and based off of where you live.

randompvg, exactly. Remember Nixon's "silent majority"? I hate how he used that, but the term applies here.

[Saki-the-cat]

@MiriaRose
From what i understand, i'm pretty sure that she's talking about the fact itself that people can, have, and will discriminate againsed Homosexuallity. Even if the ammount of people who do so is very little, it's still a horrible thing. Same with sexism and racism.

There's nothing wrong with getting together and showing pride and speaking out to such people that there's nothing wrong with us. That we're proud of who we are and there's nothing anyone can do to make us think otherwise. Pride is a wonderful thing. Pride gives people strength and hope. It makes us happy with ourselves and showing it with other people like us just incresses that happiness.

[MiriaRose]

@MiriaRose
From what i understand, i'm pretty sure that she's talking about the fact itself that people can, have, and will discriminate againsed Homosexuallity. Even if the ammount of people who do so is very little, it's still a horrible thing. Same with sexism and racism.

It's not very little. I never said it was very little. What I'm arguing is the fact that calling it a "gay-hating world" is a huge exaggeration and is insulting to the straight people who actually do care about our rights, and that she's making this huge assumption based off of her relatively small experience.

There's nothing wrong with getting together and showing pride and speaking out to such people that there's nothing wrong with us. That we're proud of who we are and there's nothing anyone can do to make us think otherwise. Pride is a wonderful thing. Pride gives people strength and hope. It makes us happy with ourselves and showing it with other people like us just incresses that happiness.

Pride causes people to murder others because they don't think that those people are good enough. Pride causes people to hate each other for being different. Besides, why should anyone be proud of something they're born with? You didn't work hard to become queer. You didn't put effort into it. You were, as Lady Gaga would say, born that way. It's not an achievement. Be happy with it, by all means, you should be happy with who you are. But be prideful of what you're worked hard for, not something that was handed to you at birth.

[Saki-the-cat]

@MiriaRose
Well if that's the way you want to look at it, then go ahead. I've just never seen it like that. I believe even if you're born with something, you should still be proud of it. People should be proud and happy with themselves, weather they be different from others or not.

And of course, there is a difference between having pride and showing it. At places such as cons and gay pride events, i'm more then happy to show it and be open with it. Walking down the street on a normal day, that's a different story. Being proud with yourself is always a good thing, just showing it sometimes isn't. If that makes any sense.

[MiriaRose]

@MiriaRose
Well if that's the way you want to look at it, then go ahead. I've just never seen it like that. I believe even if you're born with something, you should still be proud of it. People should be proud and happy with themselves, weather they be different from others or not.

And of course, there is a difference between having pride and showing it. At places such as cons and gay pride events, i'm more then happy to show it. Walking down the street on a normal day, that's a different story. Being proud with yourself is always a good thing, just showing it sometimes isn't. That's what i'm trying say.

Okay, but why should you be proud of it? You haven't earned it. Again, you didn't go through hardship to become queer. You were born that way. Are you proud of your gender, of your eye colour, of your hair colour? It's ridiculous, because you didn't earn those things. You were born with them. There's no reason to be ashamed, but being proud is kind of silly.

[Saki-the-cat]

@MiriaRose
Maybe we're looking at this differently? in my mind, being proud of who you are just means you're happy with it. More or less accepting it as a fact that you are queer and there's nothing you can do about it.

[MiriaRose]

That would be being happy about it.

a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.

A high opinion of something you've worked for is good. You should feel accomplished if you've worked hard and achieved something, and you should feel proud of it. But pride for something you're born with just causes people to hate each other.

[Saki-the-cat]

@MiriaRose
Well like i said, that's your own opinion and i have no problem with that. I, however, don't think like that. People have hated gays, people of color, and thought less of women sense humans have exsisted and not because they were proud of it. People are going to hate each other anyway, weather they're proud of something or not.

[MiriaRose]

@MiriaRose
Well like i said, that's your own opinion and i have no problem with that. I, however, don't think like that. People have hated gays, people of color, and thought less of women sense humans have exsisted and not because they were proud of it. People are going to hate each other anyway, weather they're proud of something or not.

They hated other people because they were proud of being straight (and again, not all queers are gay), proud of being white, and proud of being male. Minority groups hate people in the majority, and they hate other minority groups as well- Biphobia and transphobia, for example, are common in the "gay community", and there's plenty of coloured people who hate other coloured groups.

In addition, saying that people are going to hate each other anyway does nothing to end prejudice and in fact, excuses it.

[Saki-the-cat]

I don't feel like arguing about this anymore. People can be proud of whatever they want. That's their own choice. There's nothing we can do to stop that.

[MiriaRose]

. . This is gonna sound rude, so here's a "no offense" disclaimer, but I'm not forcing you to argue about this with me, and you really don't have to, especially considering that what you were replying to was between me and Soundy. You posted this thread knowing that this is a controversial issue; you should have expected someone to disagree with you and challenge what you said.

I never said there was anything we can do to stop it. What I was saying was that it's generally a bad idea, and that I disapprove of it.

[Saki-the-cat]

Well to me, it sounded like you were trying to convince people to not be proud (and considering this is a "pride month" thread, i figured that if anyone didn't approve of such a thing, they would just leave it alone. It would be like going on to a thread about poetry and saying that you think poetry is dumb). I'm sorry that i misunderstood.

[@random]

There's nothing wrong with the discussion in terms of the forum rules... but it seems like it's kinda just going in circles now. 

MiriaRose, you're right about pride (in the denotative sense) being associated with achievement, which doesn't really fit a trait that people are born with. But it sounds like a new definition is being created for pride in this single context. Apparently it's meant to convey "celebration", "demonstration of community spirit", "refusing to be daunted", and a variety of other positive aspects.

Maybe redefining words isn't the best way to go, because it can lead to confusion. But if that's what someone wants to do, then posing arguments based on the original definition while they pose arguments based on the new definition is only going to frustrate everyone.

[MiriaRose]

^ Agreed. Honestly, this new definition of "pride" just really sounds like being happy with who you are. . And that's not pride at all, that's being happy with who you are.

Also, I was under the impression that I was allowed to post if I disagree with you. .?

[soundninja12]

Fun fact:
The world =/= The United States
Lawmakers =/= The people
Vocal hate groups =/= The majority

Don't assume that just because homophobia exists and straight privilege exists that every straight person hates queers and that we live in a "gay-hating world", because we don't. You're making assumptions based off of a limited experience and based off of where you live.

My last post was supposed to be a disclaimer for my quote, stating that the word "World" was an inappropriate word to go about using, and that you are correct, and that just because there are a lot of places where homophobia is actively present, it doesn't mean that everyone is against us.

I think that Pride is a big party for people to realize that, hey, I'm not the only person who is going through this.
I, personally, think it's fabulous in more ways then one. I do, however, see your point. The idea of homosexuals striving for equality then going out and having a three day celebration of their differences seems almost hypocritical.
This doesn't stop it from being one hell of a good time, though.

AND I AM SORRY FOR MAKING PEOPLE FIGHT.

[MiriaRose]

Fun fact:
The world =/= The United States
Lawmakers =/= The people
Vocal hate groups =/= The majority

Don't assume that just because homophobia exists and straight privilege exists that every straight person hates queers and that we live in a "gay-hating world", because we don't. You're making assumptions based off of a limited experience and based off of where you live.

My last post was supposed to be a disclaimer for my quote, stating that the word "World" was an inappropriate word to go about using, and that you are correct, and that just because there are a lot of places where homophobia is actively present, it doesn't mean that everyone is against us.

I think that Pride is a big party for people to realize that, hey, I'm not the only person who is going through this.
I, personally, think it's fabulous in more ways then one. I do, however, see your point. The idea of homosexuals striving for equality then going out and having a three day celebration of their differences seems almost hypocritical.
This doesn't stop it from being one hell of a good time, though.

Er, I think you're missing the point of what I'm saying. I'm saying that that's not what pride means, and that pride is for something you've achieved and being prideful of what you're born with isn't such a good idea. It doesn't really matter what you think it means, considering that the accepted definition of it is something else, as I've shown, and using it for what you think it means really just causes confusion. I don't mean to sound rude; I'm just saying that you're using the wrong words for what you want to express.

And no, I never brought up how queers (seriously, LGBT =/= homosexual community) are striving for equality and then celebrating differences and how that might seem hypocritical. Equality =/= Sameness, as any radical feminist worth their salt will tell you. Pride isn't celebrating your differences.

AND I AM SORRY FOR MAKING PEOPLE FIGHT.

Why? It's a discussion; you can't expect everyone to have the exact same opinion as you in a discussion.

[reppy]

Here's something fun: The institution of marriage should be abolished. There's no need for it, really, and if you wanna get married "in the eyes of God" or summat, then go to a church or synagogue or mosque or temple or whatever suits your religion. Half the marriages that exist end in divorce anyway, and marriages and divorces clog up the legal system.

I would prefer we just move over to civil unions for all.  I don't really think the fact that half of marriages end in divorce is a compelling enough reason to abolish marriage/civil unions. I pay taxes for public education when almost half of all students will drop out of college. Even if you got rid of marriages, there would still be plenty of disputes that clogged up the legal system.  Why are people involved in the legal system after a divorce?  I assume they're fighting over custody, property, or money.  Getting rid of marriage won't fix that. ^^

Anyways, love who you wanna love! yeah!  

You have to go to court to get a divorce, actually. My parents married and divorced in the same court room.   The fact that half the marriages end in divorce wasn't my only reason for abolishing marriage- It's just completely useless nowadays.

Yes, but I imagine a situation where a couple splits amicably without any fighting goes pretty smoothly.  Even without marriage, there will still be plenty of people fighting over possessions and children.

As for paying taxes for public education, that's something completely different- Especially considering most students drop out of college due to insufficient funds and for reasons completely different than the reasons for divorce.

I'm sure plenty of marriages have ended due to lack of sufficient funds.  

Pride causes people to murder others because they don't think that those people are good enough. Pride causes people to hate each other for being different. Besides, why should anyone be proud of something they're born with? You didn't work hard to become queer. You didn't put effort into it. You were, as Lady Gaga would say, born that way. It's not an achievement. Be happy with it, by all means, you should be happy with who you are. But be prideful of what you're worked hard for, not something that was handed to you at birth.

No matter what you do, or where you go, there is always going to be a small subset of the population that will advocate violence and hatred.  I personally do not feel the need to have "pride" over anything I was born with.  But I was born white, male, and straight in a world owned by people that are just like me.  I really haven't had to deal with anyone trying to insult me or pick me on me because of the way I was born.  I have never had anyone make a death threat against me because of the way I was born.

And . . I'm not exactly sure if Lady Gaga is the type of person I'd want to quote on complex social issues. 

[MiriaRose]

Here's something fun: The institution of marriage should be abolished. There's no need for it, really, and if you wanna get married "in the eyes of God" or summat, then go to a church or synagogue or mosque or temple or whatever suits your religion. Half the marriages that exist end in divorce anyway, and marriages and divorces clog up the legal system.

I would prefer we just move over to civil unions for all.  I don't really think the fact that half of marriages end in divorce is a compelling enough reason to abolish marriage/civil unions. I pay taxes for public education when almost half of all students will drop out of college. Even if you got rid of marriages, there would still be plenty of disputes that clogged up the legal system.  Why are people involved in the legal system after a divorce?  I assume they're fighting over custody, property, or money.  Getting rid of marriage won't fix that. ^^

Anyways, love who you wanna love! yeah!  

You have to go to court to get a divorce, actually. My parents married and divorced in the same court room.   The fact that half the marriages end in divorce wasn't my only reason for abolishing marriage- It's just completely useless nowadays.

Yes, but I imagine a situation where a couple splits amicably without any fighting goes pretty smoothly.  Even without marriage, there will still be plenty of people fighting over possessions and children.

True, but without marriage, you also wouldn't have to worry about your newly-divorced spouse taking half of the money you earned.

As for paying taxes for public education, that's something completely different- Especially considering most students drop out of college due to insufficient funds and for reasons completely different than the reasons for divorce.

I'm sure plenty of marriages have ended due to lack of sufficient funds.  

True, but not nearly as many, and as I stated, marriages tend to end for different reasons.

[reppy]

Hmmm . . I was going to get into the whole marriage thing a little more in-depth, but I don't really want to derail this thread.  And I don't think it's interesting enough to warrant its own topic.  =)

[MiriaRose]

^ I think it is, but I think I'm too exhausted right now to keep up with two debate threads at once. xD;;

[Saki-the-cat]

^ Agreed. Honestly, this new definition of "pride" just really sounds like being happy with who you are. . And that's not pride at all, that's being happy with who you are.

Also, I was under the impression that I was allowed to post if I disagree with you. .?

I never said that you couldn't disagree with me. Hell, i was doing the same thing to you. I was only saying that, in my mind, it sounded like you were trying to convince people that having pride was a bad thing and that you wern't going to give up on your argument untill they thought the same as you. Like i said, i misunderstood your point and i'm sorry for doing so.

[Nando-KiT]

can i just say that im kinda tired of this "what pride is" deal
it what you want it to be, whether its being happy about your self, or the dictionary term, who cares. its your opinion is it not, and not every body is going to agree with either, just be nice ok?

[MiriaRose]

That's not how words work. Their definitions are not opinion- If they were, then spoken communication would be harder than it already is. If it's being happy about yourself, then call it that, don't redefine a pre-existing word. Also, this thread hasn't been replied to in a week. You literally just brought the issue back up. 

[Saki-the-cat]

Maybe we should just call it Lets-all-be-gay-for-being-gay-month.

[reppy]

That's not how words work. Their definitions are not opinion- If they were, then spoken communication would be harder than it already is. If it's being happy about yourself, then call it that, don't redefine a pre-existing word. Also, this thread hasn't been replied to in a week. You literally just brought the issue back up. 

So I can start calling myself gay and everyone will know I just mean I'm happy? 

[MiriaRose]

^ If you live in the 1890s.

I'm not saying language doesn't evolve- it does, obviously- but there's a difference between the natural evolution of language and saying it means something because you think it means something. And aside from terms like "gay pride" and "black pride" and the like, nobody uses the word pride like that.

The misuse of the word pride is why we get people who are butthurt about not being able to be proud of their whiteness or their heterosexuality. It obviously doesn't mean "to be happy with who you are", considering the negative connotations with being proud of being part of the privileged group.  

[superjaz]

Might get off topic if so gomen.

In regards to rights, our country is messed up and has been for a long time.  Example, my great grandmother became a us citizen when she was about 24, even tho she was born here as were her parents her parents parents ect, because It wasn't until after many Indians returned from fighting in WWI that some Americans felt obligated to make them citizens. The Indian Citizenship Act of 1924 granted U.S. citizenship entirely to America's indigenous peoples.

Every one should have the same basic rights, including to love who they do.  It does take time.  So having a pride month, way to say "hey we're here you can drag your feet but we are still here" and have a reason to party? woot!

Sub thing, I am a girl and I <3 my guy as much as can be, I do like to show support as an allie, I have always wished there was an awesome shirt or something for allie (I know missspelled am tired) to show all the people who feel like  "yes I am not gay but I support gay rights!"
Feels like there should be a more awesome way of saying that, really sleepy, baby kickin kept me up a lot

[MiriaRose]

Sub thing, I am a girl and I <3 my guy as much as can be, I do like to show support as an allie, I have always wished there was an awesome shirt or something for allie (I know missspelled am tired) to show all the people who feel like  "yes I am not gay but I support gay rights!"
Feels like there should be a more awesome way of saying that, really sleepy, baby kickin kept me up a lot

You don't need to be LGBT to support LGBT rights. You just need to be human. Or turtle*. It doesn't matter if you're gay or straight or trans or bi or a or whatever and you support gay rights; you needn't mention it.  

OT but when is your baby due?

*A good friend of mine from middle school raised turtles in her front yard. She lived downtown. Let's just say a lot of tourists got to see gay turtle porn.

[Nando-KiT]

That's not how words work. Their definitions are not opinion- If they were, then spoken communication would be harder than it already is. If it's being happy about yourself, then call it that, don't redefine a pre-existing word. Also, this thread hasn't been replied to in a week. You literally just brought the issue back up. 

im meaning to sound rude but
im sorry if i brought it up again, but i really dont care about the definitions.
i beleave its what that  person wants to think, and its there choice. i will not argu about i was just tired of reading about it

[superjaz]

Due October 9th.  I woke at 12 and 4 (bladder shrunken to a tea cup) and had a doc appt early today.
6 months and a 2 weeks along boy who is kick boxing my insides at night.
Will be 8 months at con gulp