Kumoricon 2011 Exhibitors Hall Discussion and Comments

[BlackjackGabbiani]

This whole debacle with the dealer hall is simply absurd.

Frankly, after waiting the entire year to hear anything, to simply see the list slapped up on the site with a note telling all hopefuls what basically boiled down to "lol nope" is just disrespectful. What makes you think that anybody will want to sell at the convention after all this? I can easily see this tearing apart the entire con.

I can speak only for myself, but I was told back when we were asked to send in descriptions of our shops that my chances sounded pretty good. Yet somewhere along the lines this changed to "snowball's chance in hell". Inexcusable, especially since I can't possibly be the only one.

Honestly, the whole thing reminds me of when I got a press badge at Sakura Con to do an interview that they never intended to let me do in the first place--a whole lot of leadup to nothing, with a hope that never should have been granted if they had no intention of ever letting it happen at all. And I stopped going to Sakura Con. Do you want people to stop coming to Kumoricon? Because with the disrespect potential vendors have been given over the past several months, that certainly seems to be the case.

I'll come this year, but only because I'm highly invested in the costume I'm making and it would otherwise be a complete loss. For next year...well, frankly, you have a lot to do to win me back, and I know for a fact that I'm not alone in that.


_{(edit: Renamed thread to be the new SAY IT! for this year. It's a little early, but it's better to hear about things beforehand anyway. ~randompvg)
(edit: I re-renamed the thread per OP's request because this does deserve its own topic (not that I am faulting random, he did right) and I merged the other topic on the subject with this one so all discussion can be seen and be responded to easily. ~Ally Fields Dir. Publicity)}

[ObiJay]

Honestly, I agree with you on this. We've been waiting, and I had been checking the website daily, both the forum, the website itself and my email. If I had gotten an email saying "Thank you for applying, but unfortunately we did not select you." I would not be upset at all. However, none of us did. I do not know for a fact how many other potential vendors applied, and I fully understood that the space this year was limited. All that is fine. What bothers me is that we could have applied to Artist's Alley instead, but we wanted to make BlackCat Gadgeteering's Kumoricon debut as an exhibitor, we wanted to take our business to the next level. We saved up our sales from previous cons to make the big change here. We also thought we had a chance from previous email communications. We could have pre-registered at the $35 dollar rate, but no, potential vendors were told to hold off instead, so we did. I have no grudge against any of the vendors that did get in, most of them are long time vendors and have big store frontends, it makes sense to have them. I've met the man that runs Steambaby, he makes some absolutely gorgeous wares, and in the steampunk community he's much more recognized than we are. Still, to find out we weren't selected by a blurb on the website? That's just absolutely ridiculous. Especially three weeks before the convention itself. I never thought they could top the hotel debacle from the past two years, but they did in my eyes with this. I used to love this con, hell I used to love it more than SakuraCon, but at this point, I'm done. Forget applying again, if this is the treatment I can expect, I can find better places for abuse.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Exactly. Rejection we can take. But dismissal is something else entirely.

[Gryffinclaw Princess]

While I may not be a dealer, I was looking into making things for con and probably ending up in AA. I know these are two different 'issues' but in my mind they are very similar. The DH has ALWAYS been a big thing for me at cons. It is where I spend most of my time. My non-social older brother agreed for the first time ever to go to a con with me because of how I described the DH. I know there is still going to be a DH but I am not pleased with what I have heard about how some of the Dealers are treated. It's just plain rude and disrespectful...
Because of everything I have seen happen it will be very unlikely I will attend con again unless things change. I am highly regretting already buying and receiving three badges for this year (for me and family) not only because of this but because of how I have been treated by some of the mods here. If there was any chance of a refund, I would gladly grab it up and get back my $120 I already invested in this. It's inexcusable how we are all being treated (even if I'm only effected on a sidestanding point with the DH debacle) and how information is greatly lacking this year. Like Blackjack said...good luck getting me to come to another con after this year. It's going to take a lot.

[shikyo]

I love kumoricon, my first one was in 2006 but the one reason I even go to cons is because of the dealers hall and now my favorite vendor isn't there even though he's been coming for so long. He was the only way I could get my yaoi manga in hand, now seeing that borders doesn't exsist...
Also seeing how the vendors are being treated, that's just plain rude and unprofessional... I'm not sure as to what all happened but at least saying sorry would be better then nothing. *shrugs*
I don't know how all this works with the vendors but maybe after the con start early with doing the whole legal thing so you can get vendors in early.
I wont hold any of this against the con itself, people put there time into to make it fun for everyone and they don't get paid. But I don't think I will be going next year..

[BlackjackGabbiani]

To be fair, shikyo, there's still Barnes & Noble. And Powell's if you live in the area.

But yes, at a convention is an entirely different environment.



...I don't like how the title of the thread was changed. Perhaps change it to make it more on-subject, but to make it into a general rant topic is not what I had in mind at all.

[Ritsu-chan]

The DH and the raves are what I look foward to most, if the dealers hall is crappy, my con will be crappy, that is the best part of kumo, being able to buy things from the vendors you can't find anywhere else.... Looks like the people in charge have some damage control to take care of and maybe next year pick a location where there is actually enough room for the DH...

[nerdtastic]

Wait...only 20 dealer tables? Am I reading this right?! What in the world am I missing?!

That's HORRIBLE!

And to think...I pre-reg'd this year for the first time ever. Blah.

The dealer hall is always my favorite part of any con...pretty disappointed...I really hope I'm missing something here! (Yes, I know the artists haven't been posted.)

[BlackjackGabbiani]

They have limited space. But at the same time, there's a pretty huge difference between "limited space" and "only 20 vendors many of whom are either industry or other conventions". To say nothing of the fact that that see that note below it, about how everyone else is out of luck? That's the only notification most people got, who had been waiting for months to hear about getting in.

[Saki-the-cat]

They have limited space. But at the same time, there's a pretty huge difference between "limited space" and "only 20 vendors many of whom are either industry or other conventions". To say nothing of the fact that that see that note below it, about how everyone else is out of luck? That's the only notification most people got, who had been waiting for months to hear about getting in.

Yeah...That's kind of ass...Hopefully they'll fix up their mess next year.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Hopefully they'll fix it THIS year. Granted at this point it's basically a wash, but honestly they have to keep hearing that this is unacceptable because it is.

[Saki-the-cat]

Yeah, i'm kind of curious as to what Kumoricon's problem is this year. I mean, first it was the countless badges that were the wronf colors, now it's the dealers hall. Is there different staff running this year or what?

[BlackjackGabbiani]

From what I understand, the current Vendor Hall head was only brought in a few months ago, and there was some mess with a contract and a lawyer.

But that doesn't excuse leading people on for all the year and then saying "lol nope" literally a month before the con. If you're going to fill up on industry and other conventions, TELL US. Don't let us think that we're going to have a shot at things if we don't. And if we DID at some point, TELL US THAT THE PLAN CHANGED. It's heartless otherwise.

[Saki-the-cat]

I kind of see what you're saying. I mean, if they had problems with the vendors hall a few months ago, even if they wern't sure, they could've at least sent everyone to applied to be a vendor an Email or something that said, "there is a chance that only [insert number here] of you will be able to work in the vendors hall this year due to complications."

[nerdtastic]

So they  have 2 hotels now, got away from the "small" hotel in downtown PDX...and now there's 20...dealers? TWENTY?

Still can't get over that. Very disappointed.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

They did tell us there was a chance we might not get in. But it was phrased closer to "there's limited space so you all need to apply and we'll pick the unique stores" rather than "only if these people that we haven't mentioned yet decline".

[Ritsu-chan]

Really?! Are you KIDDING ME?! This has to be a bad joke or something... With other con booths filling up space and kumo's booth what we'll be left with is effing 15 vendors, can't the open vendors in more than one location because this is BS....

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Not kidding at all. We were told to apply for Washington State business licenses and, if we wanted, to send in descriptions of our shops.

When I did so, I got this reply:
"We are looking for companies who have a versitile selection of goods to offer our convention goers with diversity of other companies that are also interesting in vending for the convention.  Sounds like you have a good mix of product.  We are awaiting the finalized contracts before sending them out.  At this point we are looking to see how we can get a good mix of merchandise for the convention."
That was June 9th.

[EveofAbyss]

Yeah, I did think the vendor list seemed unusually short when I read it. And looking at the pocket guide from 2007 (when Kumoricon was last here), there were 39 vendors (not counting Artists' Alley) then. Is the Vendor Hall not in the Hilton this year? If it is, I wonder what changed as far as capacity. Hmm, very interesting. Hopefully this won't be too much of a wet blanket over the weekend, because the Vendor's Hall has always been a beloved chunk of the con.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Vendor Hall is in Red Lion this year. Although I've asked a few times about why it's not in the Hilton parking garage again and haven't recieved an answer. I mean, if it's full that's fine, but at least answer when someone asks it. Not to mention that I also asked about the Red Lion because, with nothing else being said to be there at this time, there's three places to have a vendor hall that would be HUGE. There's the entire conference area, there's the room in the front of the hotel, and there's the big room off the parking lot. Have vendors in all of them, including the Sakura Con Booth in somewhere prominant like the lobby of the Red Lion (apparently there's a special deal with the two conventions), and you have room for about twice what you have now.

Again, if there actually IS non-vendor stuff going on in those areas, it shouldn't be a problem to say so. Instead it's met with silence.

[Ritsu-chan]

Yeah, its pretty much my favorite part..

[EveofAbyss]

Oh, in the Red Lion. Okay, well at least that explains why the capacity differs from 2007. Still, hopefully everything works out satisfactorily.

[Saki-the-cat]

Well one other thing to point out is the artists ally, which will hopefully be just as nice as it's always been, so it's not like there only going to be 20 people selling stuff there...

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Still.

I'm trying to arrange another dealer hall, at some other time. I'd like to have the details finalized by the time of the con so that we can advertise it there. The info is in the Plan Your Own Adventure forum.

[nerdtastic]

Yeah, I know there are artists there too, who do some amazing work.

I'm usually more into the licensed toys or blind box toys, etc, etc. Even the loud annoying big guy who yells that his anime is 20% off retail has SOME value to me, etc, etc, haha.

[StarryShay]

Good, because I have no money this year anyway /shot'd

[nerdtastic]

Good, because I have no money this year anyway /shot'd

Haha, yeah, my wallet will be happier, right? I guess I can spend some money on a certain big website with a certain big anime sale now too.

*sniffle*

[XxBelovedxSoubixX]

This sucks.. Couldn't they at least stick the other con booths near registration or something.
When I'm in the dealers hall I'm not looking for there business cards or advertising.
I'm looking for something amazing that I can't easily find somewhere else.

On top of treating the venders with such disrespect they go and through this at us. Good Job. They better be the most amazing venders I've ever seen. It's not like kumoricon is the only convention around here.
I'm sure I can find one that doesn't have as many errors and treats the people who make it worth while with some ounce of respect.

[Coconutty93]

THEY HAVE TWO WHOLE DAMN HOTELS AND THEY CAN'T FIT IN A KUMORICON BALL OR A LARGER DEALER'S HALL??? KUMORICON, YOU ARE SERIOUSLY SUCKING IT THIS YEAR. NEXT YEAR IS GETTING MORE AND MORE IFFY.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

That one just puzzles me. Two raves but no ball? One would think the simplest solution would be to NOT PUT IN TWO OF THE SAME DANCE. If only for the sake of not repeating things!

[mellonemrys]

Hello,

Everyone in the Relations department understands the frustration surrounding the exhibitor's hall this year and we have done our best to accommodate everyone.

The exhibitor hall is at the Red Lion this year because of the major logistical problem of the exhibitor hall in 2007 (the Hilton's garage was used) being extremely warm, with no way to remedy that problem. Unfortunately the next biggest space available to put the exhibitor hall this year was the Centennial Center at the Red Lion. This space only gave us room for 38 booths. We don't have anywhere else in either hotel to put more vendors without sacrificing programming space, which additionally would make the attendees who come only for our programming disappointed. Please understand that we went for the option that would please the most people, without taking away from the convention as a whole. Splitting up the exhibitor's hall into multiple locations also presents huge logistical issues for the convention staff and put unneeded strain on our exhibitor's staff especially.

Why are there only 20 vendors with 38 booths available? That is simply because some vendors were given multiple booths. Due to the fact that some vendors might (and did) receive multiple booths, we were not able to tell potential vendors how many spaces would be available because that would have been misleading.

Teresa (our exhibitor hall manager) picked the vendors for this year very carefully, and after reviewing every request we received for this year.

Addressing the 'Cons and Industry are taking up a large portion of the booths' issue, Sakuracon is the only convention who has a booth in our exhibitor's hall because they give us a space in their exhibitor's hall. As for Industry booths, they donate their time and products to the convention by running panels and giving us prizes for our contests and items for our charity auction. While we are not an industry focused convention we still benefit from the anime and manga industry, and without them we feel like we would not be able to put on the best con possible for our attendees. Every one of our 'industry' booths will be selling their products.

Again, we understand that everyone is frustrated. We really wish we could have had a larger space for the exhibitor's hall, but we are working with what we have and trying to make it the best we can.

- Kate Fletcher
Guest Manager and Industry Liaison

[Coconutty93]

The Hilton should have been thinking about the fact that WE USE ALL OF THEIR SPACE. Lol. Not trying to bash you, you make a very good point, but I blame the Hilton for all of the Dealer's Hall frustration. They should know that by having us use them as our con location, they need to be prepared to surrender all of their space, no matter what. >:O

[Coconutty93]

That one just puzzles me. Two raves but no ball? One would think the simplest solution would be to NOT PUT IN TWO OF THE SAME DANCE. If only for the sake of not repeating things!

I knoooooooowwwwwwww! That bothers me alot! And they say they can't do anything about it because they already hired the DJs. I think that's silly, they shouldn't have hired both of them if we always have a ball. :T

THINK OF THE CON-GOERS.

PS: Sorry about the double post. I didn't notice this was the same thread. =,D

[StarryShay]

Mellon, thanks for working so hard with everybody else to figure this out!
At least we have a dealer's hall at all, guys!
Just because it's less then usual, doesn't mean any of you need to be disrespectful, because this late in the game, nothing can be done!

Everyone is trying there hardest to make Kumoricon fun for us, so try and realize that, instead of causing them more stress, please.

[Jamiche]

We have have all of the Hilton space, including the garage.  It was not viable for Dealer's Hall, but we were able to utilize it for other functions.

As was stated, we have planned things out to utilize all the space available, to best utilize the space.

[Coconutty93]

...

[Jamiche]

That one just puzzles me. Two raves but no ball? One would think the simplest solution would be to NOT PUT IN TWO OF THE SAME DANCE. If only for the sake of not repeating things!

I knoooooooowwwwwwww! That bothers me alot! And they say they can't do anything about it because they already hired the DJs. I think that's silly, they shouldn't have hired both of them if we always have a ball. :T

THINK OF THE CON-GOERS.

PS: Sorry about the double post. I didn't notice this was the same thread. =,D

This thread is for discussion of Dealer's Hall... please keep your posts on-topic.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I have to say this though--that part about the Hilton garage being too hot being the reason that the hall isn't there this year? Hogwash. It felt like entering a cool cave, something quite welcoming when wearing a trenchcoat as I was that year. People were going in there to cool off.

And the part about reviewing every request--that also, frankly, seems as if it's false. If that was the case, surely at least SOME new applicants would have gotten in. The email I recieved from Teresa about this said
"The contract was not available until recently and the priority Industry and vendors that had previously had arrangements have been notified."
That says nothing about new applicants, only industry and people from previous years. New applicants were not given the chance you claim they were, since none of us had been notified.

We were not given a chance. We had no opportunity to submit applications as no applications were ever presented to us.

[nikkiolie]

Alright it is upsetting that there isn't going to be a whole lot of venders at the con this year. I hate to say it, but get over it. There is nothing that can be done about it this year and all you are going to do is stress staff out who may express that stress on congoers and stress yourself out. If you don't want to go to Kumoricon because of it that is fine by me. The point is, that staff now know the anger about this so stop complaining. I am with Shay on this one, a smaller dealer hall means I wont be spending my money on stuff I don't need, that will also mean that people wont spend as much time there as they have in the past which means the lines will go faster. Oh yeah I bet you guys forgot about the lines to get in. The one that could take an hour to two hours just to make it to the dealers hall.

And Vampire-Kameko, they didn't say that the Hilton did not get us all the space we needed they said that they didn't want to put the dealers hall in the garage where it will be hot. Yes some of us can deal with the heat long enough to look through the items but what about the DEALERS who have to be there from 10-6? Also I remember the dealers having a lot of problems with card machines because they were not getting a good signal from the garage last year.

Putting the venders hall in the other hotel was a good idea. Otherwise they would only have the smaller panel rooms there and thus the other hotel wouldn't get as much action as the main hotel (again like last year). This will also MAJORLY cut down on the crowdedness in either of the hotel.

I believe that the venders were carefuly selected as well. The staff went through the list and said "what would most people want to see?" There was even a topic about it here....with a POLL and it looks like the top two where character goods and more variety. I recognize a lot of the names and I know those ones have the biggest and widest range of selection, so based on that poll they made a choice.

Yes they may have not been the most perfessional about telling people that they did not get in but lets also remember that they are volunteers not paid professionals. Most of them have other jobs to do. I work at least 50 hours a week and I hardly have enough time to sleep and relax in between my jobs. I imagine some of the staff are in the same boat and I could NEVER do staffing on top of that. Here I might be able to give some of you younger guys an example that would better relate to you. It would be like going to school full time, playing a sport full time AND holding a part time job. If you do this then I am sure you are probably weaker in one of those than you are the others, if you are great at all of them congrats you are one of the very few who can do that. But there is probaby one or two of those in the whole staff for Kumoricon. They are doing this for fun. It would be like finishing some sort of game (sport) and everyone who watched the game critizied you after you were done.

So please, for the love of god, build a bridge....

[BlackjackGabbiani]

The fact of the matter is that it's simply shoddy business practices. We were promised a chance to get in. We were never given that chance.

You speak of YOUR reasons, that you'll spend less money, that there'll be shorter lines--but those are just that, your reasons. Others can spend more money than you. Others save up all years. Others don't mind lines, or at least find the end result of waiting to be worthwhile.

I ask you, would you be so quick to dismiss it if you had been promised a chance to submit an employment application, then told that they were setting up a contract for employees, told this for several months running, and then all of a sudden they post that all positions have been filled even though neither you nor anyone else asking had ever recieved that application at all?

Do NOT tell us to "get over it". This is a matter of morals and of business ethics, and the fact of the matter is that Kumoricon failed on both those fronts.

[nikkiolie]

We were promised a chance to get in. We were never given that chance.

a chance to get in

chance

Made my point there. Also the DID give everyone a CHANCE, and they chose the vendors that they thought the most people would like.

I ask you, would you be so quick to dismiss it if you had been promised a chance to submit an employment application, then told that they were setting up a contract for employees, told this for several months running, and then all of a sudden they post that all positions have been filled even though neither you nor anyone else asking had ever recieved that application at all?

I HAVE applied for many jobs. When I was looking for a job I would do well over 100 applications a week and do you know on average how many calls/emails I got from them saying I was called in for an interview AND ones saying they wern't interested? Roughly five or so. Majority of them didn't even bother to respond or send me a generic pre-made email saying they wern't interested. And do you know what I did? I moved on.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

You're missing the entire point of that analogy. We were not given the chance to so much as submit the application, although that had been promised to us several times.

You at least were able to submit them. We were never given the form to begin with.

As I stated earlier in the thread, rejection is different than dismissal. Rejection we can take. Rejection at least comes after a fair chance. Dismissal, though, is what were given, because that chance that was bandied about so much never came. We were promised a chance. That promise was broken.


Additionally, you talked about the poll about what people would like to see in the dealer hall. I invite you to go back and take a look at that poll. Notice when the poll itself expired? December, 2009. Over a year and a half ago.

[nikkiolie]

And I said that they wern't professional about it. I was telling the people who where up set that only 20 vendors were going to be there to get over it, not the people who wanted to be in it. The people that were talking about not seeing their favorite vendor. I'm talking about the people who are saying if the dealer hall sucks this year I am not going to come back next year or I wont have a good time because the only reason I go to con is the dealers hall. Those are the people I was talking to.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Your fourth and fifth paragraphs seem to be directed at the prospective vendors themselves.

Also, who are you to judge why people come? If, say, gaming was as shoddily run this year and people were saying the same things, would you tell them this? If no guests had yet been confirmed and people were saying the same things?

People are also speaking negatively about the lack of a formal ball, which is a big draw as well, to the point where they're seriously discussing the logistics of having one themselves in the park. Would you go into the thread for that and tell them to "build a bridge"?

[StarryShay]

Well, by even suggesting that we have the ball at the park in the first place, I was attempting to help build a bridge in a sense...
I figured that since we aren't able to have a ball this year, why not take it into our own hands instead of complaining, when nothing will be changed.
All of this arguing is putting stress on the people who work really hard to make Kumoricon happen for us, and that's no good. :<

[BlackjackGabbiani]

There's a link in my signature for anyone who wants to help make a better dealer's room happen this year, outside the convention.

You still make your displeasure known. I know that we can't accomplish anything for THIS convention, but the issue remains that the convention hasn't even taken place and already several major balls have been dropped in the organization and planning of highly popular events. I see no reason NOT to post at this time.

[nikkiolie]

People are also speaking negatively about the lack of a formal ball, which is a big draw as well, to the point where they're seriously discussing the logistics of having one themselves in the park. Would you go into the thread for that and tell them to "build a bridge"?

Nope because they are, like you said, doing something about it rather than sitting on their butts complaining. The decided to organize their own ball. Everyone here is just complaining about it. Why don't you think of ways to sell your stuff outside of the dealers hall. You would actually make more money that way since you aren't paying for a booth. Maybe you could make cards with your information and hand them out or go up and talk to people and see what they are interested in and maybe see if they are intested in buying some of your things.

And something happens every year and the same response is always giving. If you don't like the way something is run volunteer and fix it, but how many people do that? Very few. From a psychology stand point, if you go into something with a negative attitude you are going to have a negative experience, but if you go into something with a positive attitude you will have a positive experience. If I were to only go to the con because of the DH (which I did when I first started going to cons) and I found out that it was going to be smaller I would probably say to myself "thats too bad about the dealers hall, however, this will give me a chance to see other aspects of the convention. Maybe I could go to a panel or a viewing room or check out more cosplayers, and make new friends rather than being in the dealers hall the whole time"

There's a link in my signature for anyone who wants to help make a better dealer's room happen this year, outside the convention.

You still make your displeasure known. I know that we can't accomplish anything for THIS convention, but the issue remains that the convention hasn't even taken place and already several major balls have been dropped in the organization and planning of highly popular events. I see no reason NOT to post at this time.

This is perfect. That is what you should do. Be proactive

What I fear more than having a small dealers hall is the staff to say "screw it, these people complain no matter what we do so why bother," to the point where there are not enough staff to run the con and thus the con can happen or they have to cap it at a much lower number (making people complain more)

[BlackjackGabbiani]

So wait, you tell me that I'm only "sitting on (my) butt complaining" and "just complaining" and you ask why we don't think of ways to sell our stuff outside the dealer hall...and then you tell me that it's a good thing that we're trying to do exactly what you just said we weren't?

You know what? I do sell stuff. I have a shop online. I'm probably not the only one either, out of the other prospective applicants. I don't really have any way of knowing, and neither do you. Online shops, "brick-and-mortar" shops, etc. You're making quite an assumption and frankly it doesn't reflect well of you.

Again you cite what YOU would do, yet again I repeat that not everyone is you.

What, exactly, would you advise we do then, if not complain? Your initial statement that we were ONLY complaining has been proven wrong (in the same post that you accused us of only complaining no less!), so what would you suggest we do? We're trying to forge ahead. But we also want answers. Real answers, not this hogwash about the parking garage being too hot, or why we were promised the chance to apply only to have all vendors selected outside the potential applicant group without a single application being seen by any of us.

[nikkiolie]

So wait, you tell me that I'm only "sitting on (my) butt complaining" and "just complaining" and you ask why we don't think of ways to sell our stuff outside the dealer hall...and then you tell me that it's a good thing that we're trying to do exactly what you just said we weren't?

You know what? I do sell stuff. I have a shop online. I'm probably not the only one either, out of the other prospective applicants. I don't really have any way of knowing, and neither do you. Online shops, "brick-and-mortar" shops, etc. You're making quite an assumption and frankly it doesn't reflect well of you.

Again you cite what YOU would do, yet again I repeat that not everyone is you.

What, exactly, would you advise we do then, if not complain? Your initial statement that we were ONLY complaining has been proven wrong (in the same post that you accused us of only complaining no less!), so what would you suggest we do? We're trying to forge ahead. But we also want answers. Real answers, not this hogwash about the parking garage being too hot, or why we were promised the chance to apply only to have all vendors selected outside the potential applicant group without a single application being seen by any of us.

I started writing my post and posted it to find out that two new replies have been made so I added more. I'm done arguing, I have made my point and you have made yours so we both need to stop.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

All right, all right. Just, you can see that this is a very touchy issue for me right now, and seeing "you're just sitting on your butts complaining" set me off. I do want to hear what you and anyone else has to say in the thread for the alternate dealer hall, though, since I want to have things planned enough to at least advertise at Kcon.