Kumoricon 2011 Exhibitors Hall Discussion and Comments

[nikkiolie]

Yeah and I saw that you did come up with an idea, however I didn't see when you started that a few days ago. I have a problem with people who complain and do nothing. So I am very glad you are doing something and it will give lots of people (even people who would never think of buying a booth at the dealers hall) a chance to sell some stuff. I have never really been one to complain about how something is run, or at least I try not to. Yeah I know it is something I would do but that being said I have always been told I am too optimistic and naive so....

I am more than willing to help you out with your thing. I think it is a FANTASTIC idea and we should do it like twice a year.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

But then I'm confused. What would give you the impression that people were only complaining and doing nothing else? Even without the other thread, you simply have no way of knowing what's going on behind the scenes, how many emails people are writing, what PMs are being sent, how many are making plans to go to the meeting next weekend, and so on.

[Taikei]

But then I'm confused. What would give you the impression that people were only complaining and doing nothing else? Even without the other thread, you simply have no way of knowing what's going on behind the scenes, how many emails people are writing, what PMs are being sent, how many are making plans to go to the meeting next weekend, and so on.

You sir, are trying to provoke another argument that does not need to be provoked. Kindly refrain from doing so.

[@random]

One of the most important parts of the code of conduct is that we can discuss even heated topics, but only as long as we refrain from making speculations about each other's motives or meanings.

Asking questions is one thing. Jabbing at each other and making insinuations is something else entirely, and we don't need another page full of it. I'm not speaking as moderator or as staff here, and I'd rather not do so... just as someone who would like to see this reach a better ending than it's heading toward.

[superjaz]

I am happy we have a dealers hall, 20 vendors is still a lot to me.
I am glad that we also have a space that the vendors we have can be comfortable, a dealer friend of mine still remember the Vancouver Hilton garage as a terrible experience, very hot and muggy.  

There is also artist ally.

I always get lots of complements on jewelry and things I buy in artist ally.  When I tell people where I bought it they say they never got a chance to make it to that end of the hall.  So if anything I hope this gives people a chance to make it to the AA end of things and check out some of the one-of-a-kind and usually very reasonably priced items, that they might have missed otherwise.

[Saki-the-cat]

I am happy we have a dealers hall, 20 vendors is still a lot to me.
I am glad that we also have a space that the vendors we have can be comfortable, a dealer friend of mine still remember the Vancouver Hilton garage as a terrible experience, very hot and muggy.  

There is also artist ally.

I always get lots of complements on jewelry and things I buy in artist ally.  When I tell people where I bought it they say they never got a chance to make it to that end of the hall.  So if anything I hope this gives people a chance to make it to the AA end of things and check out some of the one-of-a-kind and usually very reasonably priced items, that they might have missed otherwise.

Same here. To be honest, i expected something like this to happen. I remember in 2009 there were a lot of problems sense that was the first time Kumoricon was at the hotel, but they ended up fixing most of it by the next year. Hopefully next year they'll sort out all of these problems sooner and get everything on the right track.

[Shadow]

So if anything I hope this gives people a chance to make it to the AA end of things and check out some of the one-of-a-kind and usually very reasonably priced items, that they might have missed otherwise.

^ I couldn't agree more.

I prefer the AA over the Dealer's Hall in general. I'm also hoping this will bring more business and foot traffic for them.

Not having the Hall in the Hilton's parking garage was a wise idea, and a decision that was made via learning from their mistakes in '07. I remember it clearly: it was hot, muggy, and overall uncomfortable in there. I almost passed out more than once. I couldn't imagine what it was like for the vendors who were stuck down there.

Kudos to the staff for learning from past mistakes.

Do we know where exactly at the Red Lion the Dealer's Hall will be located? Hopefully not in the same space where MEWcon had it when they were at that hotel.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I wasn't speculating nor trying to start any arguments. I was asking how such an assumption would be made. Nothing more.

Anyway, I can't be the only one who recalls the parking garage as being very cool inside, can I? As I said, I was wearing a heavy trenchcoat and going in the parking garage was an incredible relief. Was it just comparatively speaking then?

Look, I don't want to take away from the AA. But as a vendor I wouldn't want to take away from them either. I view them as really two different things that you go to for different items. AA doesn't sell the stuff that Vendor Hall does, Vendor Hall doesn't sell the stuff that AA does. And when you're looking for one, it doesn't reflect at all on the other to be unable to find it.

[ObiJay]

Well this is still going, and as I said in the other thread, the only part that bugged me was I discovered our group, Blackjack there who I've been tabled near at a couple other cons, and others didn't make it and were offhand informed and we have had no communication since June. My anger has passed, and maybe our little upstart Steampunk biz will try again next year. What I initially took as a slight I now take as "Fine, we up our game and our merchandise quality, make a vendor coordinator want us."

On a side note though, that parking garage was hell mixed with a sauna. It was muggy, it smelled, and I remember any vendor that took credit cards grumbled because they had to wander around, find a signal on their cell to complete the transaction. Definitely not something I would want to deal with, especially when my poor little Droid R2-D2 just refuses to find a signal anywhere.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

While this can certainly be an opportunity to improve, I do question how that would impact anything when they seemed to not even notice us.

Huh, that's odd.

And I'm contacting a guy about how to go about renting a place for the bazaar event. He's the head of the local Pokémon card league, and they have tournaments at the sorts of places we're looking fo, so hopefully we can find out some stuff about the legal and contractural side of event rental.

[nerdtastic]

I was trying to find out where my original post went, and see that they threw it into this thread.

I also figured there would be a backlash against the backlash today, and sure enough there was.

I'm just disappointed, period, that there are only 20 dealers. My original point still stands.

I'm still coming to the con, obviously, I paid my money-I'm just bummed.

HOWEVER, when people say "Oh ho hum, get over it", well, no, sorry. I'm disappointed. I bought something, I was disappointed with news about it. That's all. I really didn't get out of line, etc, etc, IMO.

I'm still bummed, but it doesn't sound like the staff or the higher ups are going to try to change anything, or even say "Yeah, this does stink, we'll look into trying to add more space" or something...because they aren't. Still bums me out.

[BigGuy]

The last time we were in the Vancouver Hilton and had the Dealers hall in the Parking Garage vendors and attendees thrashed us for months about the hot, muggy uncomfortable conditions down there. Vendors refused to ever come to Kumoricon again in we ever had it there again. Some people handle heat well, most did not that year.
 We on staff know that Dealers was not handled well this year.
 I'm sorry for that.  
 It won't help any hurt feelings this year, but next year we will have the legal matters, location issues and procedure for selecting vendors refined. So next year will be smoother.
 

[Witchaven]

There is one thing I have to suggest to help make sure something like this doesn't happen next year.
Please, have Dealer Contracts available for next years Convention at the Con this year. That way any Vendor attending (even those who are just attendees like many who are involved in this thread) have a chance at getting the Contract and signing up for next years event.
If it's not possible to get the full Contract for whatever reason, at least get an official signup where anyone interested in being a vendor next year can at least get a spot reserved. Have a specific time to get the contract or signup, simular to how Sakura-Con has done it in the past (just please do it all with a reciept book and preprinted contracts, not by trying to input them all in computer like Sakura-Con has tried the last 2 years.)
This makes it a lot easier for planning the Vendor Space, makes communication with the Vendors easier and would help to heal the rift that has developed between some of the dealers who were not able to get a spot this year.

[nikkiolie]

I'm still bummed, but it doesn't sound like the staff or the higher ups are going to try to change anything, or even say "Yeah, this does stink, we'll look into trying to add more space" or something...because they aren't. Still bums me out.

There is nothing the staff can really do a month before the con. You say they should add more space but lets say they have a room that is 100 sq ft and the dealers are taking up 75 sq ft, they need to have room to walk around so there really isn't much room left to add anyone else.

They had room for 38 tables, between the 20 dealers it sounds like those 38 tables are taken up. So they simply can't just "add more space" because there is no space to add. At this point there is nothing that can be done for the con, that is what I meant when I said get over it. Not don't be upset about the way that people were treated, but get over trying to get more venders in the DH because it simply wont happen. And if somehow there are other vendors it probably will have nothing to do with the con and they will be on their own and not located in the DH. By all means be disappointed, but don't let it ruin your con experience.

[EveofAbyss]

By all means be disappointed, but don't let it ruin your con experience.

This should be put on a streaming banner at the top of this thread. Really, the best advice that can be given or received on this matter. What's done is done for this year, and while things can be changed for next year, don't let this one aspect ruin your weekend. Con is too precious to waste on such avoidable negativity.

[nerdtastic]

It won't ruin my experience, thanks for telling me what to do, ahha. Seriously though, I'm an adult.  Telling people how to think doesn't usually add up.

Also, I didn't know there would be only 20 dealers until last night when they announced the dealer's list (or that's at least when I saw it first) so it wasn't just about them fixing it NOW, it could have been fixed months ago (although they choose not to use another panel room or whatnot). So I appreciate posts like Bigguy's.

Also, I went to Sakuracon this year for the first time. The dealer's hall there was, well, amazing. It's just going to seem like such a downgrade this year, even from the previous Kumoricon's I've gone to (Just the past two years).  People will always complain about something, sure, I understand...now I get to (and I do think within reason!)

[BlackjackGabbiani]

It won't help any hurt feelings this year, but next year we will have the legal matters, location issues and procedure for selecting vendors refined. So next year will be smoother.

We were told that about THIS year several months ago.

Can we at least hear what the legal matter WAS and what was holding up the lawyer for half a year?

Also, what else is going on in the Red Lion? We've asked that too and again haven't gotten an answer. With the big building near the parking lot, the room by the hotel entrance, and the conference rooms, there should be plenty of room for far more vendors. If there's something else going on in there, fine, but for all the times it's been asked, that's been met with silence. IS there anything else in there, and if so, why is such a simple question going unanswered?

Teresa told me to contact the head of Relations. I did, several days ago, and have gotten no reply. Many people have complained about the lack of communication and that's a problem that goes far beyond the vendor hall debacle.

[Bresslol]

AFAIK, The Red Lion is having, CCG, LARP/RPG, Artist Alley and Dealer's Hall over there. Are you asking that we take out features other congoers look forward to so we can have a few more dealers? If so, that's a ridiculous and unreasonable request.

What's done is done. We're under a month away from con. I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

If you would like to submit ideas or help what you think is an obvious concern, you're welcome to share that. Those ideas would have to help us out for the 2012 convention year. If you're as passionate about it as you have been, maybe join dealer's hall staff for the 2012 year. Your feedback and work as a staffer could go a long way to fix this.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I never for a moment said that. What I said is that we were NOT TOLD what, if ANYTHING, the Red Lion was hosting other than the dealer room. That is ALL. I even said "if there's something else, fine". The issue is NOT that anything else is there. It was that, when the question of what else was there was asked, there was no answer given, and I would like to know why such a simple answer was never given.

Yes, I intend to join staff. Yes, I know that this will have no bearing on THIS year. The issue is that we are furious and need to be heard so that this does NOT EVER happen again. This is beyond the pale, frankly, and I would not be surprised if many people did not ever return to this convention. And really, it would be entirely understandable.

[Shadow]

What's done is done. We're under a month away from con. I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

</thread>

[Jamiche]

I never for a moment said that. What I said is that we were NOT TOLD what, if ANYTHING, the Red Lion was hosting other than the dealer room. That is ALL. I even said "if there's something else, fine". The issue is NOT that anything else is there. It was that, when the question of what else was there was asked, there was no answer given, and I would like to know why such a simple answer was never given.

Specifics on what was going in the Red Lion was not released prior to now is because the schedule had not been finalized... it has now.  All this information will be up around mid-August so people know where to find their favorite events.

Things are not announced until they are final... this is how we have always done it.  As I recall, the question did come up at general meetings and I gave a rough answer as to what was going where... so in fact the question has been answered before.  Perhaps not in enough detail, or widely enough to satisfy everyone, but it was answered.

The arguing about this is not getting anyone anywhere.  Yes, people are unhappy with the situation... there usually is someone unhappy every year, it's a result of having to compromise.  Can we do anything about it this year?  No, probably not.  Will we do something about it next year?  Yes, we will do our best.

But for now, let's end the argument and just concentrate on this convention.  We have less than a month, and still have a lot of work to do.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I see no arguing. I see wants to know why this happened, and why we were denied the chance we were promised.

I'm not sure why a single thread poses such a distraction to people, what with the claims that this is breaking concentration and so on.

Well, if anyone wants to join me and already a few others in doing something about this, go to the link in my signature for planning a seperate event (not during con dates but at another time) for our own dealer hall. I do want to get plans solidified enough by Kcon so that we can advertise it during then, so please join in, especially if you have suggestions for places (there's already two lists of what we're looking for in a location).

[Koryu]

Hello everyone.

I'd like to take a moment to re-iterate some things stated by my Guest Manager, earlier in the thread, and answer a few more questions, which will hopefully help clarify this situation and give everyone the closure they are looking for here. There were clearly mistakes, and no one is denying that, and myself as Director keeping silent any longer will only continue the problem, so let me begin by saying, simply, I am sorry for any stress or confusion caused this year by the Exhibitors hall. As you may or may not know this is my first year as a Director and I had some pretty big shoes to fill from our now current Vice Chair. She created a good thing in the Portland Downtown Hilton Dealers, and re-creating that in Vancouver was always going to be a challenge. In 2007, the space we used caused such problems that several exhibitors had told us, in writing and verbally, that they would NEVER return to that venue. Exhibitors that we respect and value highly told us on no uncertain terms that the conditions were simply unbearable for the long hours that the hall was open and that they would leave our convention if we used it again. Other alternatives hurt programming in inacceptable ways and they best option, as I and my Department (as well as my fellow Directors) saw it, was to put the Exhibitors hall in the comfortable, albeit smaller (much smaller) location of the Centennial Center at the Red Lion Hotel at the Quay.

We never deceived anyone that this year would be a severely smaller Exhibitors hall, and that we wouldn’t  be looking for anything but high quality, consistent, and reliable vendors whom we could assure to our attendees that they would provide the best goods possible. This principle was in most of the e-mails we send out, in my statementsa general meetings and was verbally re-iterated to any vendors I or other directors spoke to. I know that around 20 total vendors was quite a shock to many, but believe me, it has been even harder for my department. We want the best of all worlds; an amazing con, great exhibitors and the most diverse goods for our attendees. At the end of the day, we had to work with the space we were given. This was stressful, but we knew going in it would be small, because I simply didn't have the tools to make it any larger.

Perhaps, in the future we can find an alternate solution, but this was the best option I saw, and I made that executive decision. But believe me when I say that I did try to do the best with what we had.

Regarding the process by which exhibitors are chosen, I feel as though some misinformation is being perpetrated here and I want to set the record straight.  This is so that in the future, everyone will know how this system works and wont feel left in the dark.

As stated on the Exhibitors page of the website in June;

"If you are interested in participating in the Exhibitors Hall, we are accepting your company's information at this time. All exhibitors are required to have a Washington state UBI number or Reseller Permit in compliance with all state and federal laws. We appreciate your interest and the products that you may be offering. Please send all information to exhibitors@kumoricon.org where it will be forwarded to the proper channels. Thank you."

Anyone who sent all information requested to that e-mail address were added to a list and was considered "Applied". When new information was available, e-mails were sent out to inquiries about the status of the selection process. Obviously e-mails can fall through the cracks, with the hundreds of e-mails I and my Exhibitors Hall Manager have gotten in the recent months, there is always the chance that some people just were not responded to in a timely manner, or even at all. It happens and is unfortunate and I do apologize for any stress that caused.

Specifically, to Blackjack, I would remind you that back in June my exhibitors hall manager was very clear with you on the requirements for being a vendor.  She answered your questions and did on several occasions respond to you, with the very clear line that at the time, the hall was full, but if booths were relinquished, we would contact our applied vendors immediately to fill these vacancies. We were very careful to never implicitly promise anyone a booth.  There were two few booths for me to make such dangerous statements. If we didn't have the space for you, we told you it was full and apologized. The truth is that we have had to replace some dealers who, for what ever reason, could know longer come, so saying that we would contact people if booths became available, was a real situation we were under. I apologize that, of the copious amount of e-mails you have sent us over the course of this year, only half or so of them got this response, but we honestly didn't know how much more we needed to explain the situation to you, and doing so continuously crippled our department and left less time for us to respond to other people who deserved just as much attention. For most people, one or two e-mails on the subject sufficed, we are sorry that this did not solve your problems, but we couldn't do much more than what we have already done.

Clearly, the issue here is that, the lack of space, and large volume of communications we received bogged down the system, and our small supply of staff and time couldn't handle the weight of it to some people's satisfaction. I wish I could make everyone happy, but I knew going into this year, that it was going to be rocky. I want you to know that we are listening, we are sorry, and we are working on concepts that may alleviate the problems for next year. We have lived, we have learned and we have your feed back as attendees and exhibitors and potential exhibitors. That is the most valuable thing we can have looking to the future, so I tell you honestly: Thank you. For now, I simply ask that we accept that this year cannot be changed, we cannot add more space and we cannot move to a location already assigned to another part of programming. I hope we won’t let some miss-communication and human error make the con unpleasant before its has even started.

I am confident that, in the end, we will all have a good time.  I am personally looking forward to the Exhibitors Hall and Artists Alley we have and am sure it will work out well for everyone attending.

If you have any other questions regarding the selection process, the way to submit your information for the future, or just questions about my department, please feel free to ask me.  I am available via e-mail, pm or whatever your preferred method may be. I want to help everyone enjoy the convention from my department's end so don't hesitate to ask.

Thank you very much for your time and patience,

Sarah Paige
Director of Relations
Kumoricon 2011

[BlackjackGabbiani]

See, I'm confused now. You considered that applying? Because every other con I've "applied" to has involved an actual application form that we physically filled out and mailed in, not simply an outline of our shops. It was never made clear that that was considered the application, which is why we've stated that no such thing was ever made available to us. I have a feeling that other applicants, working at some of the same conventions I did (one even cited me as being nearby at M.E.W.con), were expecting the same application process.

By stating that we were never given the chance to apply, I never viewed that as misinformation, because we were not made aware that that WAS the application.

As for being told that it was full...do you mean the post on the site when the vendor list went up? Because honestly, that was a pretty heartless way to do things. It came across as dismissive and cold, as if we were a mere afterthought.

I don't think anybody in this thread is trying to change anything for this year. We understand that. What we don't understand is what led up to this reductive decision, and why it was implemented so poorly.

[nerdtastic]

AFAIK, The Red Lion is having, CCG, LARP/RPG, Artist Alley and Dealer's Hall over there. Are you asking that we take out features other congoers look forward to so we can have a few more dealers? If so, that's a ridiculous and unreasonable request.

What's done is done. We're under a month away from con. I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

If you would like to submit ideas or help what you think is an obvious concern, you're welcome to share that. Those ideas would have to help us out for the 2012 convention year. If you're as passionate about it as you have been, maybe join dealer's hall staff for the 2012 year. Your feedback and work as a staffer could go a long way to fix this.

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART. Well, maybe not the bathrooms, haha.

I like how you say "What's done is done." Cliche, cliche. Is that like "It is what it is?" You say you're sorry, but that's how it is...and then you suggest joining the dealer's hall staff and that feedback and work could go a long way to fix this? HAHA. What about "What's done is done"?!

Anyway, Ms. Paige's post is about the best I can ask for. Disappointed, but I'm glad the upper staff answered this question.

I'm moving on. Now, I got to try to convince my small group of anime friends to reconsider and go with me anyway.

[RadicalSpaghettiMonster]

See, I'm confused now. You considered that applying? Because every other con I've "applied" to has involved an actual application form that we physically filled out and mailed in, not simply an outline of our shops. It was never made clear that that was considered the application, which is why we've stated that no such thing was ever made available to us. I have a feeling that other applicants, working at some of the same conventions I did (one even cited me as being nearby at M.E.W.con), were expecting the same application process.

This isn't other conventions, this is Kumoricon. Kumoricon does things how Kumoricon does things. Just because Kumoricon does something differently from another convention, whether it be deemed as better or worse, it does not mean they have to conform to the ways of other conventions. However, I personally think there should be a form for this kind of thing to help eliminate confusion on all levels. I'm surprised there isn't one already.

As stated on the Exhibitors page of the website in June;

"If you are interested in participating in the Exhibitors Hall, we are accepting your company's information at this time. All exhibitors are required to have a Washington state UBI number or Reseller Permit in compliance with all state and federal laws. We appreciate your interest and the products that you may be offering. Please send all information to exhibitors@kumoricon.org where it will be forwarded to the proper channels. Thank you."

Anyone who sent all information requested to that e-mail address were added to a list and was considered "Applied".

What exactly is this "all information requested" you speak of? I see nothing saying what should be sent in except possibly the Washington State UBI number or Reseller Permit. Unless there is another place that listed the needed information, the request is rather vague.

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

Your argument seems much worse.

[meep]

I'm not really upset about the small number of vendors this year. Although I'm worried about the selection of goods, I know that the staff have carefully picked out some quality vendors. I'm also glad that certain vendors didn't make it on the list because honestly they were a waste of space.

Just because there is a small number doesn't mean your not gonna find good deals and items at the hall. Wait to complain till after the con is over you guys, you cannot change anything a month before it happens.

[Koryu]

Blackjack-

To my knowledge, paper or digital “application forms” have not been the procedure for soliciting exhibitors by Kumoricon in the past. I am sorry if this was not clear from the statement posted to the exhibitor page on the website. But how to apply was stated there and many other dealers were able to easily perform this action and the process was not thought odd. For those who had difficulty with it, I can only send my sympathies for it not being clear enough and we will strive to outline that better in the future. But we are not other conventions, and I don’t see a reason to change what has worked for us in the past just to fit other formats.

In regards to explaining to you and other exhibitors who may have inquired about the hall being full, I am referring to the numerous e-mails sent to you, via my exhibitors hall manager, which explicitly stated to you that we were full. These e-mails were to serve as your notification of the status of the exhibitors hall personally, and as well as any updates that were available.

Thank you for your questions,

Sarah Paige
Director of Relations
Kumoricon 2011

[nikkiolie]

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

Your argument seems much worse.

Thank you. I didn't want to say anything but that point seemed really self centered and childish. Nerdtastic just becuase you like the dealers hall doesn't mean others do and other may want more panels than dealers. This is the best median that Staff could find. Yes Sakuracon has a huge and very nice dealers hall but Sakuracon also has 20000 people with a 7 story convention center. Kumoricon has about 5000 or so with two Hotels. The smaller conventions get the smaller the dealers hall gets. If you go to mewcon you would see there is only 10 or so dealers (if not less). To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

[DancingTofu]

To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Quoted for truthiness.

A lot of people make the mistake of expecting Kumoricon to be more like Sakuracon.  Kumoricon doesn't exist to be a second Sakuracon; it exists to be its own event with its own priorities and significance.  I enjoy a lot of things about Sakuracon that don't exist at Kumoricon, like the arcade for example.  Kumoricon's its own con that stands on its own choices though.  You want a huge dealer's hall and not much else?  Check out Akicon.  Very large dealer's hall for such a young convention.  It also has a pretty decent arcade.  Kumoricon has its own merits though, so don't expect it to be Sakuracon v2.0

[Griff_the_dragoon]

To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Quoted for truthiness.

A lot of people make the mistake of expecting Kumoricon to be more like Sakuracon.  Kumoricon doesn't exist to be a second Sakuracon; it exists to be its own event with its own priorities and significance.  I enjoy a lot of things about Sakuracon that don't exist at Kumoricon, like the arcade for example.  Kumoricon's its own con that stands on its own choices though.  You want a huge dealer's hall and not much else?  Check out Akicon.  Very large dealer's hall for such a young convention.  It also has a pretty decent arcade.  Kumoricon has its own merits though, so don't expect it to be Sakuracon v2.0

Could not have said it better myself

[@random]

To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Quoted for truthiness.

A lot of people make the mistake of expecting Kumoricon to be more like Sakuracon.  Kumoricon doesn't exist to be a second Sakuracon; it exists to be its own event with its own priorities and significance.  I enjoy a lot of things about Sakuracon that don't exist at Kumoricon, like the arcade for example.  Kumoricon's its own con that stands on its own choices though.  You want a huge dealer's hall and not much else?  Check out Akicon.  Very large dealer's hall for such a young convention.  It also has a pretty decent arcade.  Kumoricon has its own merits though, so don't expect it to be Sakuracon v2.0

I like Sakuracon, and worked with them last year. They're a good con with a great purpose, and they do the community a lot of good in terms of how we're seen. But my true love is Kumoricon. YMMV, but the biggest difference is that Kumoricon is first and foremost by the fans, for the fans.

Sakuracon is as well, but in order to appeal to the widest possible audience, they have to limit programming and the unspoken rules to stay not just more family-friendly... but also more average-American-friendly. This lets them pull in the larger crowds that let them get the WSTCC while we're still in hotels. It lets them pull in sponsorships. And the lack of these factors, above all else, is why dealer space is limited.

It's kinda like the difference between sub and dub, in some ways... sub may be more true to the original language and culture, and may appeal to the "true fans" (or at least we like to think we are)... but how long did it take before they considered playing a subbed anime in any American theatre, let alone as a major release? In the same way, I hope one of these days Kumoricon can make it to the Portland convention center... but it'll take a while, unless we're willing to become much more like our onee-san Sakura than we are right now.

If someone who's more familiar with both Sakura and Kumori than I am thinks it's more about some other factor, please correct me on it. But I think this is most of the reason for the difference in dealer halls.

[Taikei]

BlackJack- I am sorry to say, but these staff members have done nothing but answer your questions, and you can't seem to accept what they are telling you. I cannot be sure of everything that has gone on, as I am not a dealer but an average con-goer. What you seem to be upset about is the lack of communication between staff and yourself, but the Director of relations has pointed out that they have responded to several of their emails. All of these staff members have been very respectful and are all trying to tell you the same things.

They apologized for how things have turned out this year, and they are going to try and remedy the situation next year to the best of their abilities. Constructive criticism is good, heatedly ranting and raving is not. I fear I am getting away from the point here.

General Statement for Everyone- Everyone is just going to have to accept that there are in fact only going to be twenty dealers, and make the best of it. I am a little sad, but I understand the need to do this with the limited space we are given. Kumoricon cannot hope to change things this late in the game without the possibility of a calamity occurring. Things just have to stay as they are, and /constructive criticism/ helps much more than anything else. I have seen some of it in this thread..but a more positive outlook in this thread would be a pleasant thing. I am worried that if we keep going as we are, some day the staff will give up trying to please us by responding on these threads. We all need to be respectful, especially when requesting something from other people, regardless of who they are or what they represent.

I personally am glad that the vendors wont be in a parking garage, it was so hot in there that I couldn't breathe due to temperature related asthma (if the air is too warm, for some reason it sets off an attack) and thus could not shop comfortably or even hope to see all of the tables. It will be good both for the vendors and con-goers to have the Dealer's Hall in the Red lion, this way both hotels get traffic, and there is less crowding in the Hilton. There are many many positive aspects of this change, but a lot of people are only looking at the negative.

Lastly I apologize for any typos or poor punctuation, as I am on my cellular device as I type this.

[ObiJay]

As one of the unfortunates that did not make the cut, I'm satisfied with the answers the staff have given. I can definitely understand needing to satisfy the big time, dependable vendor over someone with little more than an etsy site. Guarunteed continual cash is needed a money sink like a con. I have also seen apologies for how things got handled. I'm glad you took the time to reply when you easily could have had a mod nuke the thread from orbit.

[nerdtastic]

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

Your argument seems much worse.

Thank you. I didn't want to say anything but that point seemed really self centered and childish. Nerdtastic just becuase you like the dealers hall doesn't mean others do and other may want more panels than dealers. This is the best median that Staff could find. Yes Sakuracon has a huge and very nice dealers hall but Sakuracon also has 20000 people with a 7 story convention center. Kumoricon has about 5000 or so with two Hotels. The smaller conventions get the smaller the dealers hall gets. If you go to mewcon you would see there is only 10 or so dealers (if not less). To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Sigh. Then compare Kumoricon to Kumoricon last year. Giant difference regardless.

[superjaz]

Sigh. Then compare Kumoricon to Kumoricon last year. Giant difference regardless.

I am sorry but you can't compare last years event to this years event that hasn't happened yet.
Dealers hall is a lot of people's favorite place during con yes, but if you tell yourself now you are not going to like it and not going to have fun at con because of it, you are not going to have fun at con no matter what.

[EveofAbyss]

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

Your argument seems much worse.

Thank you. I didn't want to say anything but that point seemed really self centered and childish. Nerdtastic just becuase you like the dealers hall doesn't mean others do and other may want more panels than dealers. This is the best median that Staff could find. Yes Sakuracon has a huge and very nice dealers hall but Sakuracon also has 20000 people with a 7 story convention center. Kumoricon has about 5000 or so with two Hotels. The smaller conventions get the smaller the dealers hall gets. If you go to mewcon you would see there is only 10 or so dealers (if not less). To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Sigh. Then compare Kumoricon to Kumoricon last year. Giant difference regardless.

It is not realistic to compare a completed event to an uncompleted one. Last year's Kumoricon has happened and you have the full experience to go off of. This year's Kumoricon has not happened in any way, shape, or form yet, so to compare it to last year's based simply off of this one bit of DH-related news, is unfair and inaccurate.

I'm just going to basically keep reiterating what others have already stated. Do you think this change is worth ruining your weekend? Con is going to happen as things currently stand. Changes will be made for the future, but you are going to just have to accept that this year is essentially locked in and make the best of it. Like Jaz said, if you go into the weekend all knotted up with pre-established dissatisfaction, you're just going to have a crappy con. You get what you give. Let the DH keep you perturbed and you won't be able to enjoy anything at Kumo this year. Make your peace with it, though, and you will still be able to appreciate the other services and events that Kumoricon offers. It's on you, nerdtastic (and any others in similar situations). Yes, this is disappointing, but to not move on is to ruin your own weekend by your own choice. Moving on is always an option, but you have to decide to do so. Stewing in disappointment is something we call could do, but what would that accomplish? Where would anything be if all we ever did was steep in how unhappy things made us?

Move on and salvage what there is to salvage. DH≠Kumoricon, at least it doesn't have to be.

[@random]

Where would anything be if all we ever did was steep in how unhappy things made us?

A Green Day concert?

_{(Sorry, couldn't resist. And for the record, I love some of their songs.)}

[nerdtastic]

It's holier than thou arguments like this that make me just roll my eyes. YES, I would be asking for there to be more space for dealers...and I don't really care what gets taken out BECAUSE IT IS MY FAVORITE PART.

Your argument seems much worse.

Thank you. I didn't want to say anything but that point seemed really self centered and childish. Nerdtastic just becuase you like the dealers hall doesn't mean others do and other may want more panels than dealers. This is the best median that Staff could find. Yes Sakuracon has a huge and very nice dealers hall but Sakuracon also has 20000 people with a 7 story convention center. Kumoricon has about 5000 or so with two Hotels. The smaller conventions get the smaller the dealers hall gets. If you go to mewcon you would see there is only 10 or so dealers (if not less). To compair Kumoricon to sakuracon is not fair.

Sigh. Then compare Kumoricon to Kumoricon last year. Giant difference regardless.

It is not realistic to compare a completed event to an uncompleted one. Last year's Kumoricon has happened and you have the full experience to go off of. This year's Kumoricon has not happened in any way, shape, or form yet, so to compare it to last year's based simply off of this one bit of DH-related news, is unfair and inaccurate.

I'm just going to basically keep reiterating what others have already stated. Do you think this change is worth ruining your weekend? Con is going to happen as things currently stand. Changes will be made for the future, but you are going to just have to accept that this year is essentially locked in and make the best of it. Like Jaz said, if you go into the weekend all knotted up with pre-established dissatisfaction, you're just going to have a crappy con. You get what you give. Let the DH keep you perturbed and you won't be able to enjoy anything at Kumo this year. Make your peace with it, though, and you will still be able to appreciate the other services and events that Kumoricon offers. It's on you, nerdtastic (and any others in similar situations). Yes, this is disappointing, but to not move on is to ruin your own weekend by your own choice. Moving on is always an option, but you have to decide to do so. Stewing in disappointment is something we call could do, but what would that accomplish? Where would anything be if all we ever did was steep in how unhappy things made us?

Move on and salvage what there is to salvage. DH≠Kumoricon, at least it doesn't have to be.

Never said it was ruining my weekend. Said I was disappointed, etc, etc. You counseling me on how to think just isn't going to work-People are going to think what they are going to think, PERIOD.

Yeah, I believe it's fair to compare something I did last year with the event that's going to happen this year.

I wanted to move on, just had to deal with a few people telling me how to think some more.

Yes, it's on me how to think. I think I dislike the giant change, but I'm still going.

[Saki-the-cat]

I, personally, don't care how people think. It's just that complaining about it a lot on a forum isn't going to help any situation in any way.

[nikkiolie]

A lot of what people have been stating are facts not telling other how to think.
Fact: there is going to be 20 dealers
Fact: its less than a month till the con
Fact: staff can't do anything about it at this point
Fact: people can either dwell on it or move on
Fact: If people do dwell on the lact of dealers their con experience may not be as fun as those who moved passed it.
Fact: staff is going to do everything in their power to fix this next year


Also , you can compare an event that has already happened to one that has yet to happen and you may be disappointed. It is nearly impossible to make two events identical to each other. Fact of the mater is we are in a much better hotel this year with a very nice park across the street and hotel staff that don't give us dirty looks and treat us like crap, that alone makes this year better than last. I don't care if we don't have a dealers hall at all at least we will be treated with respect. Here is an idea, and not telling you how to think but a mere suggestion, you could start looking at all the good things about the con rather than focusing on bad things that have happened so far, who knows maybe those bad things might not be as bad as you think.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I am honestly puzzled by the number of people who think that simply because we're mad about this somehow means we won't enjoy the con. I HOPE to be able to continue to support Kumoricon, although this was a major smear on their reputation. But there's a pretty big leap between being mad about one thing and somehow taking everything else down with it.

Regarding how it isn't other cons and thus does things differently--you cannot possibly expect us to believe that it was self-explanitory that the summary was the application, with nothing calling it that prior to this thread. Sure, have a summary be an application, but at least CALL it that, or tie the thoughts together so you don't have people wondering where the applications are or why no form was ever posted. If you don't, don't call it "spreading misinformation" when people say they never got a chance to apply.

I'm also puzzled at the people who continue to remind us that we can't affect anything this year. I know we can't. I don't think anybody here thinks we can. We continue to speak so that we can dissect what went wrong so that this never happens again. If it upsets you, don't visit this thread. It should be fairly straightforward.

For those of you who DO say you want to do something, I've brought to attention a few times the link in my signature regarding planning an alternate event at some other time, and while people claim to support such a thing, there have been very few suggestions along the planning process. One only repeated notes I had given only a few comments before, as if they were new. It was very strange.

Anyway, I don't think this should be locked because this isn't over and it won't be over until the convention is. When we see things in practice, then I expect even more activity.

Also I feel I should note that M.E.W.con this past year had about 15 booths. They had 300 attendees. We have four and a half *thousand*.

[EveofAbyss]

Also I feel I should note that M.E.W.con this past year had about 15 booths. They had 300 attendees. We have four and a half *thousand*.

Kumoricon is most likely using the same space for the DH as M.E.W., so...that would explain why the number of booths are similar.

I get what you're getting at. In retrospect a different space could have been coordinated to better reflect the thousands of attendees, and I am sure this will be taken into consideration next year. This year though, even though we are talking about things now, we have to settle for what is established.

Join staff, BlackJack. You have such a clear idea of how you would like things like the Dealer Hall to run, I think not joining staff or volunteering would be doing yourself a major disservice (since this issue seems to be especially significant to you).

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I plan on it. A staffer said he'd nominate me.

But not everyone can join staff, no matter how many ideas they have. And that's why I think this thread is valuable.

[Bresslol]

But not everyone can join staff, no matter how many ideas they have. And that's why I think this thread is valuable.

I would like to clarify that the following is made by me as a staffer, and not a moderator:

[staffer, not mod]This is not coming as a mod, but as a person who has seen almost 1000 different people staff cons he's staffed in the past 8 years:

This is easily one of the most ludicrous things I have ever seen someone say on a forum ever. Anyone can staff. They just need the drive to make the convention a better place in an official capacity. You don't need someone to nominate you, you go to a general meeting and talk to a director. You email the con. There's a position for anybody who wants one.

I went from running DDR tournaments at Sakuracon to being at one point on the executive board, and am now still in a high position and in excellent standing with Sakuracon. My reputation there has helped Operations for Kumoricon for 2011, and I have assisted Ally with Facilities in 2010. Why? I'm motivated to make conventions better for everyone.

I appreciate the fact you are so passionate about the dealer's hall and wanting to make it better, that shows in leaps and bounds. But to say not anybody can staff is just flat out crazy talk. You'll also learn a much larger understanding for why cons do what they do sometimes. We're not in the business of pissing people off. We're not in the business of screwing dealers over. We are in the business of making a great con, and playing the hand that is dealt to us. Sometimes that means watering things down to keep some happy. Just remember you can please some of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time.[/staffer, not mod]

[Tanuki19]

^ THIS.

It bothers me that people are bashing down on Kumoricon this year when IT HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED YET. Personally, if the dealer's hall isn't as big as it was last year, that doesn't ruin all future Kcons for me. THE DEALER'S HALL ISN'T WHAT MAKES THE CON, THE ATMOSPHERE IS. If you're only at the con to buy stuff, maybe you'd have better luck on eBay. And if people are going to ruin the atmosphere by complaining about things that are out of their control before the con even starts, then we have a problem.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

No, not anybody can staff. There are time constraints, distance (not everyone can, say, come up from Eugene or down from Seattle for meetings), transportation issues, and so on. Everyone may be ABLE to be a staffer in and of themselves, but there ARE different things to consider.

Plus don't you have to be over 18 to be a staffer anyway?

You guys know I'm not talking about being STAFF, as in the people who work at the convention itself. I mean the people who plan events, who make things happen, who set everything up, who sign contracts, etc.

[EveofAbyss]

You guys know I'm not talking about being STAFF, as in the people who work at the convention itself. I mean the people who plan events, who make things happen, who set everything up, who sign contracts, etc.

I'm no official voice, but I'm pretty sure all the staff do "con-work". No matter what function someone may serve as staff outside of the con, when Kumoricon rolls around it seems like all staff are convention staff (if that makes any sense).

[Bresslol]

No, not anybody can staff. There are time constraints, distance (not everyone can, say, come up from Eugene or down from Seattle for meetings), transportation issues, and so on. Everyone may be ABLE to be a staffer in and of themselves, but there ARE different things to consider.

I used to live in Seattle, and came down to as many meetings as I could. I now do the same for Sakura meetings, since I now live down here. That was the drive and motivation I was speaking about earlier.

Plus don't you have to be over 18 to be a staffer anyway?

You can be 16 with parental consent.

You guys know I'm not talking about being STAFF, as in the people who work at the convention itself. I mean the people who plan events, who make things happen, who set everything up, who sign contracts, etc.

That is staff. What in the world was your definition? Everyone who wears a staff badge is staff. That means people who work at the con, as well as the hard working coordinators, managers, and directors.

Please stop arguing this point. I've given you more than enough information, and you clearly don't know what staffers do at the convention.

[Neko_Chan]

I hardly ever step foot in the dealers room. I poke around, buy some magazines and leave. I don't buy a whole lot at Conventions, but its fun to see all the dealers and chat with them... However...
I'm really disgusted by the behavior on this forum.

I'm looking forward to seeing who Kumoricon chose and how the vendors like the space. I hope to see some things I want, hopefully the vendors will have up-to-date goods from Japan!
Staff works their butts off to ensure that everything goes smothly. Thank you to staff.