What kind of photoshoot locations are appropriate?

[luvan1me]

oh okay ^_^ man ._. a lot of haruhi cosplayers don't go on the forums, huh? XD lol okay then :3

and yeah... i looked on google maps, the area, and there really isn't much at all ._. and the other place i was thinking about taking pictures i can't anymore cuz "they" said not to... so yeah. (i mean i can take a picture of me wearing a t-shirt with a red elephant showing his @ss right next to the statue of liberty, but i can't take a picture next to a memorial site? it's kind of odd, but oh well)

also! we could try to take pictures inside too, since we are a fairly small group! we could move around afterwards and figure it out ^_^

[MiriaRose]

and yeah... i looked on google maps, the area, and there really isn't much at all ._. and the other place i was thinking about taking pictures i can't anymore cuz "they" said not to... so yeah. (i mean i can take a picture of me wearing a t-shirt with a red elephant showing his @ss right next to the statue of liberty, but i can't take a picture next to a memorial site? it's kind of odd, but oh well)

The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France in 1871, a birthday present to America, congratulating the US for surviving for 100 years. The monument is a memorial to the millions of people who fought and died in WWII. You seriously can't tell the difference?

Not only is it insensitive, but it could also give you, Kumoricon, and Altonimbus a bad reputation. Remember the Anime Boston 2010 drama? If you don't, here's a recap: Yom HaShoa. Germanic APH cosplayers taking a picture doing Nazi salutes. One block away from a Holocaust Memorial. I'm definitely not the only one who thinks of that mess when they hear the words "Anime Boston". And you know what? This happened over a year ago and all the people involved have apologized. All the bad feelings are still there. Kumoricon doesn't need that bad press.

Do you understand why I asked you not to have a photoshoot there now?

[luvan1me]

yes, but i'm not cosplaying from hetalia or anything related to the memorial -.-" that's the one thing that bugs me.

[MiriaRose]

yes, but i'm not cosplaying from hetalia or anything related to the memorial -.-" that's the one thing that bugs me.

. . Which makes it even worse. You're using a war memorial for something that isn't even relevant to the war. You're debasing a symbol honouring those people, a symbol significant to generations. The Hetalia drama was just an example to show you that yes, this sort of thing sticks in people's memories.

[luvan1me]

that's not even my point -.-" if i want to take a picture with me standing next to a memorial, which i have done before, it shouldn't be done in a demoralizing manner. i'm not the type of "immature" woman, to go and prance around in a costume that "demoralizes" the country that i live in (and not so very pleased with it), but that doesn't mean i'm going to do something as stupid as to raise my hand up and say "hai, hitler!" whomever did that was quite rude, and very uneducated. i on the other hand have been raised enough to know that i can take a picture in front of a memorial, and still be in a costume and still respect a picture.

[MiriaRose]

that's not even my point -.-" if i want to take a picture with me standing next to a memorial, which i have done before, it shouldn't be done in a demoralizing manner. i'm not the type of "immature" woman, to go and prance around in a costume that "demoralizes" the country that i live in (and not so very pleased with it), but that doesn't mean i'm going to do something as stupid as to raise my hand up and say "hai, hitler!" whomever did that was quite rude, and very uneducated. i on the other hand have been raised enough to know that i can take a picture in front of a memorial, and still be in a costume and still respect a picture.

I said debasing, not demoralizing. There is a big difference. Also, how does APH cosplay debase/demoralize those countries, out of curiosity?

And there's a huge difference between posing in front of a memorial as a tourist and posing in front of a memorial for a cosplay photoshoot. In the former, you're using the memorial for what it is- A reminder of a war. You're taking pictures so that you can remember the memorial and when you went there. Using it in a photoshoot, you're debasing it (which means devaluing it, not demoralizing it). You're taking the pictures there because you think it "looks cool" and the focus of the picture is you, not the memorial.

As I said before, the Hetalia example was an example to show you that the bad feelings stick around for years.

[luvan1me]

again you don't get it. i want to take a picture in front of it so that i can remember i went there. i have NEVER been there, and it seems very wrong for anyone to tell me not go to there in my costume, since that's kind of the only way i can go. and if i want to take a picture of it, i very well can. it's not even on the property of the hotels! it's not like i'm going to be taking a photo with tons of people going "hey look! i'm a WW2 nazi and i'm going to act like a kid and pose" no! i was saying that i can wear a costume and still take a decent photo with me sincerely feeling the loss of these people and the honor they did for their country and not pose all goofy. :/ i really didn't see it very necessary to continue this argument. i was talking with kori and i was just stating that i can't take a photo in front of there. Cuz i very CLEARLY understood that kcon just doesn't want to get their butts all kicked out cuz of immature children that couldn't think before they acted in front of a memorial site. they just wanted to be safe than sorry. and i know that some of those cosplayers are just so ignorant (or just plain don't care) on the way they act. and if you couldn't tell that i was just kidding with my joke down there (red elephant butt, liberty) then not sure what i could say, since the conversation was aimed towards kori.

[MiriaRose]

again you don't get it. i want to take a picture in front of it so that i can remember i went there. i have NEVER been there, and it seems very wrong for anyone to tell me not go to there in my costume, since that's kind of the only way i can go. and if i want to take a picture of it, i very well can.

Then put on your plainclothes and take a picture. Really, the consensus among cosplayers seems to be that taking pictures around memorials is awfully tacky. Or just go another time. According to your profile you live in Portland; you could just take the bus to Vancouver and see it.

Also, no offense, but you sound really entitled when you say that you'll ignore the fact that it's insensitive just because you want to do it.

it's not even on the property of the hotels! it's not like i'm going to be taking a photo with tons of people going "hey look! i'm a WW2 nazi and i'm going to act like a kid and pose" no! i was saying that i can wear a costume and still take a decent photo with me sincerely feeling the loss of these people and the honor they did for their country and not pose all goofy. :/

Except it's not hard to just change into plainclothes and take a picture there, either. Taking a photo in costume generally means that you want to be the focus of the picture.

i really didn't see it very necessary to continue this argument. i was talking with kori and i was just stating that i can't take a photo in front of there. Cuz i very CLEARLY understood that kcon just doesn't want to get their butts all kicked out cuz of immature children that couldn't think before they acted in front of a memorial site. they just wanted to be safe than sorry. and i know that some of those cosplayers are just so ignorant (or just plain don't care) on the way they act. and if you couldn't tell that i was just kidding with my joke down there (red elephant butt, liberty) then not sure what i could say, since i the conversation was aimed towards tori.[/color]

Most of the people involved in the Anime Boston incident were adults, not children. Adults can be immature, too.

[@random]

Please keep in mind that speculation about other people's motives should be kept to a bare minimum, per the code of conduct. Also, if the debate remains between two people, it'll eventually need to go to PM.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I do wonder about some things though. Like, it seems that every fashion magazine and photography student has, at some point, had a shoot in a graveyard. This is considered unoffensive despite cheapening the surroundings. And I'm sure that war memorials have their fair share of random students showing up with the intent of improving their grade or getting a "dramatic" shot with the same reasoning--because it "looks cool". Yet no one accuses them of debasing the monument that way.

luvan1me, it's almost impossible to understand you with your lack of capitalization and strange, rambling sentance structure. If you want to be respected--and in this thread I believe it's tatamount that you aim for that considering the controversial nature of your proposal--it would behoove you to type properly and support your arguments.

[Washougal_Otaku]

I've been looking around downtown Vancouver and have been working on a list of potential photoshoot locations.  There's a few down the stretch of Columbia Way (the road that runs along the river), an area between the two hotels that have military-themed murals, a couple of grassy areas to the East of the Hilton, from the Park there's a small park-like area to the East and an entire gravel block to the Northeast, and to the West of the Park is a small area in The Columbian parking lot.  There's also the Acadamy, Officer's Row, (we might need permission for those two, though...), and Clark College.  There's also a new library that's kind of in the area; it's only about 3 weeks old right now.  Perhaps around there, or even in there, could be a potential shoot area.

[Gryffinclaw Princess]

If someone wants to take a picture in front of a memorial, let them. I come from a family of military background and have been to many war memorials on this continent and others. While these are places of respect, memory, and sadness people still take pictures smiling. Why? Because they are happy they went there. A picture is a picture and if someone isn't hurting someone, then no harm done. Me standing there as Umbreon and taking a picture will not hurt the soldiers who are being remembered or the people. I'm not having a photoshoot where I'm posing around all these different markers with goofy faces or poses, I'm simply taking a photo of me by the memorial in the clothes I happen to be wearing at the time.
Having a huge photoshoot there is one thing but someone taking pictures in a costume is another. If you think it's bad, don't do it yourself but don't rain on another's parade because you don't think it's right. I don't think it's right for people to shave their heads real short, stick some up in a pink Mohawk, and then dye the rest to look like pink cheetah spots and then walk around calling other people freaks but I know someone who did it. I don't think it's right for people to do half the things they do but they still do them and I can't make them do otherwise.
I would rather have someone take a picture in a costume so that they will remember and cherish it than in normal clothes which will end up in the picture getting forgotten or tossed away because it doesn't have more meaning. And what about a lolita outing? Are you saying those girls can't go to a memorial and take pictures because it was a part of their trip? They have to completely bypass that whole experience because you think it's rude? I have pictures of the inside of Anne Frank's house in Amsterdam, the Tomb of the Forgotten Soldier in France, and the American Military Cemetery in France. Am I rude to have those pictures? No. Would be being dressed in cosplay make it any different? No. Because I was there and I want to remember those moments.
How someone dresses isn't the problem, it's how people act.

[Taikei]

I Think that a lot of this is just people getting uppity about their political beliefs. I did a photoshoot in front of that memorial because I wanted to. I was even America from Hetalia, and yet I still kept the memorials meaning completely intact. Tom has the full thing on his flickr.

I am anticipating a reply stating 'well you could only do that because you were America'. I could have been a Germany cosplayer and still kept the meaning of the memorial. Have Germany mourning at the memorial- regretting what he did. Hell you could gather one of each country from either World war and do the same. Even a large group for a story shot or four, ending with a picture of the world understanding America a little better or something. I intend to take pictures there during Kumoricon. I will remove my badge for the time being, and take pictures, and only when I am done will I put it back on.

If anyone has a problem with this. Feel free to pm me.

[Bresslol]

oh okay ^_^ man ._. a lot of haruhi cosplayers don't go on the forums, huh? XD lol okay then :3

and yeah... i looked on google maps, the area, and there really isn't much at all ._. and the other place i was thinking about taking pictures i can't anymore cuz "they" said not to... so yeah. (i mean i can take a picture of me wearing a t-shirt with a red elephant showing his @ss right next to the statue of liberty, but i can't take a picture next to a memorial site? it's kind of odd, but oh well)

also! we could try to take pictures inside too, since we are a fairly small group! we could move around afterwards and figure it out ^_^

"They", which I can only assume means either myself or the con in general, for the record, said it was a bad idea and in bad taste. I was asked this by a few people on the forums, and this was something that was also talked about at the staff level. If you go and take pictures there, Kumoricon or Altonimbus can't stop you, nor will we. Our staff's jurisdiction is in the public space of both hotels.

The fact of the matter is that each attendee and their actions represents Kumoricon, and if controversy catches wind, your actions can potentially negatively affect the con as a whole, and not you. If that's something you are okay with, take all the pictures you would like.

[Fachion-pari]

I Think that a lot of this is just people getting uppity about their political beliefs. I did a photoshoot in front of that memorial because I wanted to. I was even America from Hetalia, and yet I still kept the memorials meaning completely intact. Tom has the full thing on his flickr.

I am anticipating a reply stating 'well you could only do that because you were America'. I could have been a Germany cosplayer and still kept the meaning of the memorial. Have Germany mourning at the memorial- regretting what he did. Hell you could gather one of each country from either World war and do the same. Even a large group for a story shot or four, ending with a picture of the world understanding America a little better or something. I intend to take pictures there during Kumoricon. I will remove my badge for the time being, and take pictures, and only when I am done will I put it back on.

If anyone has a problem with this. Feel free to pm me.

Cosplaying as America doesn't matter whatsoever that you did a photoshoot in front of a memorial. Not to mention people will know where you're from regardless of taking your badge off. You obviously look like a cosplayer, and they will associate you with the convention. All that those of us who disagree with taking photoshoots in front of the memorial are saying is that it is disrespectful, and quite frankly, has nothing to do with our political beliefs. I find it pointless you bring it up. It's about morals and respect, not politics.

[Coconutty93]

Yeah, I'm not for it nor am I against it but there is no stopping it. Whether it's us or other people, there will always be people taking pictures in front of monuments and other things, and there will always be people saying it's inappropriate and others arguing that. It's up to the person whether they want to think of it one way or another. But I do believe in respecting others requests.

***I HOPE THIS DOESN'T CREATE CONFLICT.  I worded it carefully so I hopefully wouldn't start something. ;o;

[Washougal_Otaku]

I could have been a Germany cosplayer and still kept the meaning of the memorial. Have Germany mourning at the memorial- regretting what he did.

Speaking as a Jew, I think that would be awesome!  What happened at Anime Boston, not awesome!

[Taikei]

@Pari: I apologize for using the wrong word. But I still stand by what I said.

@Washougal: Thank you, I believe that people can take pictures anywhere..but still keep to The meaning of the memorial, respect it..and sometimes give it more meaning than it had before. I myself have had to learn what to and what not to do, and have made a few mistakes on my part. But people are going to do what they are going to do. It's their right.

[Tanuki19]

Where exactly is the memorial? Is it really easy to spot out what it is? This will be my first time going to Vancouver and i don't want to accidentally take cosplay pictures next to or even near the memorial. [p.s. i'm running on AOL 9.0 so checking google maps isn't really an option for me ^^;]

[Washougal_Otaku]

The only one that I know of (and I haven't been there, so I can't say what it's like) is nearby Clark College.  I believe that this is the address: 1601 E Fourth Plain Blvd, Vancouver, WA 98661 .

[Red Spark]

The only one that I know of (and I haven't been there, so I can't say what it's like) is nearby Clark College.  I believe that this is the address: 1601 E Fourth Plain Blvd, Vancouver, WA 98661 .

Oh that place? That's, eh, not quite memorial. It's a Veterans Administration office complex, complete with assisted living services and...I think a small medical center? My father worked there off and on over the past few years - they just assist United States veterans with various problems or difficult circumstances that they're enduring. More of an office space sort of thing.

I don't really think there are any memorials around the downtown Vancouver area, actually. None that I've ever encountered, anyway. The closest thing you might get to a memorial is the Fort Vancouver historical site, but...not much else?

[Washougal_Otaku]

That's what I was under the impression of, too, but I'd heard once that there was some sort of memorial in the area, too.  But like I said, I've never been there personally, so I'm not sure about what I said.

...perhaps I could call their office and see if they know of one in Vancouver or not.

[Taikei]

It is a series of paintings on a wall behind the Hilton about American war history. Basically a mural.

[Washougal_Otaku]

^ Oh yeah.  That could count!  I didn't think of it as an official memorial, but I did note it as a possible photo shoot location while compiling my map of the area for the con book.  I think that area would work well for various series, including Hetalia.

[luvan1me]

^see! not sure why people are so against it :/

[Taikei]

It is a beautiful are for photos of cosplay, and I don't really understand it either. As long as no one is a dickbag than everything should go well and fine. Just behave yourself, make it a serious photoshoot and no harm done.

[Jacob_Blackfeather]

Yes but Taikei there is always that one dick bag and that's what a lot of people fear I myself will not cosplay infront of it but I don't mind if people do as long as they are respectful but if I see someone being a Jerk I will tell them to stop it no matter the age.

[luvan1me]

that's what i'm going to be doing! and if things go as far as them not stopping or making things worse even after i tell them to stop, i leave! cuz then i can't be blamed for their behavior!

[Jacob_Blackfeather]

that's what i'm going to be doing! and if things go as far as them not stopping or making things worse even after i tell them to stop, i leave! cuz then i can't be blamed for their behavior!

Exactly! I won't cosplay in front of it because it has nothing to do with any of my cosplays. Plus I don't want to be looked down apon because of it.

[Bresslol]

^ Oh yeah.  That could count!  I didn't think of it as an official memorial, but I did note it as a possible photo shoot location while compiling my map of the area for the con book.  I think that area would work well for various series, including Hetalia.

That is what people were referencing me to. I still say it's a bad idea to do any shoots WWII related. Another spat of controversy like Anime Boston's is not something the con needs, nor is it something the community needs.

I will again reiterate that nobody from the convention is going to stop anyone from doing photoshoots there; that said, please, PLEASE use common sense, folks.

[luvan1me]

don't worry. anything wwII related won't be done inappropriately. common sense may not be the strength for a lot of these people, but if we have someone who can handle the situation just fine, then let them.

besides, i know cosplayers have "bad rep" but it's only because people don't say anything during the situation. anything bad can be avoided, and still reach our goal. 

[TalaRedWolf33]

So, to add it here cus this is the photoshoot locations and such thread, the library lady I spoke to said that we can do small photoshoots here in the teen room, and Im going to talk to the boss today to see if we can use the balcony for some too. We just cant be like super loud, or a lot of people (ex: 100 people is too much) And she said that there shouldnt be a problem with it just as long as we dont take over the whole balcony. And, the library will be closed on the 5th, so day 3 photoshoots should stay where they are at on the list.

[hikaru_maxwell]

>.> I didn't realize that was a war memorial. One of my friends has a picture of me like...doing inappropriate things to that picture of uncle sam as Denmark. *embarrassing* War MEMORIALS usually...have like..something to identify them as memorials. We thought it was graffiti someone had put up. Amusing, but not something that we'd get in trouble for taking pictures of or with. When everyone was saying memorial this and memorial that, I was picturing something like a monument, or a statue. Not the side of an overpass or something with a few leftover great depression slogans on it.

Next time, if you want cosplayers and general public to stay away and not take pictures there, it might be good to specify what the memorial IS exactly. Not everyone is going to think that some pictures on a bridge are this hugely important thing everyone is going on about.

[@random]

^ That was the war memorial everyone was talking about? I wouldn't have guessed either - when I passed by it, I just thought it was art for its own sake.

[Titus_Love_Doll]

^ That was the war memorial everyone was talking about? I wouldn't have guessed either - when I passed by it, I just thought it was art for its own sake.

I agree  i looked like someone just painted on the wall to have a statment i didnt see nouthing saying it way

[bunny_jean]

According to the City of Vancouver's official site the murals on both sides of the railroad were created by at-risk students from Lewis and Clark High School in 2000 to deter graffiti taggers from tagging those walls. So I really don't think it's considered a war memorial, at least by the City of Vancouver. The only official war memorial near Vancouver is at the Vancouver Barracks and they were fund raising to build a Korean War memorial two years ago: http://64.4.176.81/search?q=war+memorial&btnG=Search&entqr=0&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&entsp=0&lr=lang_en|lang_ko|lang_ru|lang_es&client=COV01&ud=1&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=COV01&site=default_collection

[Titus_Love_Doll]

good so its safe to take photos around it with out offendign anyone

[Jacob_Blackfeather]

On the safe side of that though however I would not use offending gestures at that site. In warning if I see it at the con I will stop it if it is rude and disrespectful I don't care if it's not a memorial I want to see some respect.

[Titus_Love_Doll]

Half the time people dotn even give respect to other so whats the diffrance on hugging a painting on a wall or taking a photo infront of it the person who did it should be proude their art work is loved and showin in photos

[hikaru_maxwell]

Jacob Blackfeather, I understand that you may find it crude or rude to take pictures in front of the 'memorial' (wether or not it actually is a memorial being up for debate, apparently), neither you or anyone else has the right to 'put a stop to it'. If you tried with the tone that I read your post with, most cosplayers would simply tell you to shove off and would continue what they were doing. Most people don't like being told that 'you want to see some respect', especially if they don't see you as being in any position of authority.

I know that several of my friends who were playing around with me near that 'memorial', without realizing that it was a memorial, would take offense to being approached in that manner, and if you had come up to us at con and told us off for messing around, we WOULD have told you to mind your own business. There's a difference in tone and implied intent between "asking them to stop because it's disrespectful" and "I will stop it because I want to see some respect".

[Jacob_Blackfeather]

Jacob Blackfeather, I understand that you may find it crude or rude to take pictures in front of the 'memorial' (wether or not it actually is a memorial being up for debate, apparently), neither you or anyone else has the right to 'put a stop to it'. If you tried with the tone that I read your post with, most cosplayers would simply tell you to shove off and would continue what they were doing. Most people don't like being told that 'you want to see some respect', especially if they don't see you as being in any position of authority.

I know that several of my friends who were playing around with me near that 'memorial', without realizing that it was a memorial, would take offense to being approached in that manner, and if you had come up to us at con and told us off for messing around, we WOULD have told you to mind your own business. There's a difference in tone and implied intent between "asking them to stop because it's disrespectful" and "I will stop it because I want to see some respect".

No that's not what I am saying at all i don't mind if you take pictures under it or hug the picture, what i don't find respectful is giving the hail hitler or flipping it off.

[@random]

Not speaking as mod, just as a person with my own weird view of the world:

• Others have the right to strong opinions, whether we like them or not.
• Others have a right to speak and act on those strong opinions, as long as they don't infringe on our rights by doing so.
• Our rights don't include a right to not hear/see that which we don't like.
• A respectful person avoids offending other people within reason, i.e. when it's something of minor importance to that person but of major importance to other people. A respectful person does not have to avoid giving offense no matter what.
• A respectful person lets others exercise their rights, including the right to be dumb and the right to be disrespectful.

[Titus_Love_Doll]

^
Agrees with the admin


Even doing those things it is the person choice to look and act stupid it is their own person tast and prefance. trying to stop someone can end up in a fight or an augment that is unneeded.  becuse it can be anyone doing that. such as a group of people who are not part of the con.  sometimes its best to let them look stupid and later on regreat their choices. by telling us not to take photos infront of it isent realling going to work becuse there is also alot of con goers who DO NOT go on the kumoricon fourms.

I can understand your guys point but it wouldnt be a good point becuse your are only speaking to a small group of the people who go to con. thers 2000+ attendies every year I dont even think there are 2000+ people on theses forums. now as i said before it is a lost case to tell a person what to do and what they cant do. if people thing its disrespectful well then okay you dont have to but those who don't care. (like myself) will do what we with. If i want to hug the painting i will hug it dang it !.   

And demaning the whole RESPECT thing you cant get respect if you dont give it.

also I will give some of my photoshoot locations:
The park across the way is one of the best palces to do photo shoots or get your photo taken.
there are many small areas that have little fountans around the con area that would work as well I do not now their exact location
Somewere not in the middle of con space were people are walking Please step to the side when someone is asking for a photo is is alot easer for those who need to get buy or those who are handy cap and we dont have a build of traffic this year a friend of mine had to wait for a long time while this guy sat there taking photos. and she was in a wheel chair. so please try that as well

None con areas
Chineses guardens
Internatial rose guarden
japanese guarden
the square/ little park area up the street from it
Water front.
Turner creek park in hillsboro ( The wooded area is very nice for naruto photoshoots)