Registration question

[hawk222]

I've been thinking about submitting a panel, and according to the website, panelists get in for free. But I'd like to try and get a good deal on my badge, and I have to do that as soon as possible. I wouldn't hear back about whether my panel was accepted or not until it was too late to get a "good" deal, though. So, my question: if I buy a badge now, then find out that my panel has been accepted, can I get a refund on my badge? It seems silly to pay for entry when you're going to get in for free, right?

[veraca]

Refunds are... tricky. I had to get a refund last year and while it went off without a hitch, I was literally emailing up until two days before con to make sure everything went through okay (but that was also due to the lack of communication about panelists badges, which is why it's better this year).
You can either get a refund, or as they prefer, pass on the badge you paid for to another attendee (like a friend of yours). (Or pass your free badge to a friend, I did that one year since I had pre-registered and qualified for a free badge. They very kindly let me pass it on.)

To clarify, panelists do not get in for free. It is a discount. You'll be required to pay $30, so long as your 2 hours + of panel material is accepted.

If you have questions, shoot them an email at the "panels" address. The person in charge of the email is pretty prompt and should get back to you within 5 days. Just shoot them a question that you've submitted a panel, and would like to be noted down as someone who has interest in a panelist badge. (I cannot stress this enough, you need to have at least 2 hours of material. I submitted two 1 hour panels, and one panel that's over 2 hours for their consideration.)

[BlackjackGabbiani]

Thirty? It's gone up?

I've always been told that there were NO refunds, no matter what, and if you paid first and then were accepted as a panelist with the sufficient time, well you were just out the money.

[veraca]

Yeah. It was $25 last right? Five dollars isn't that much at least, in this case.

It was a special case, from my understanding getting that refund.

[Jamiche]

Please refer to the Panels FAQ for questions regarding submitting a panel.

Our policy is no refunds for registrations, which is why we ask that if you are interested in the panelist discount badge you DO NOT register as an attendee first.  In the past we have considered on a case-by-case basis whether or not to refund the difference - but that is the exception, not the rule.

As stated above, this a discount, not a free badge.  The badge is the same as a regular attendee badge, just at a discounted price... there are no additional perks with a panelist badge.

If you have any other questions, please refer to the FAQ or email panels@kumoricon.org.

[BlackjackGabbiani]

But that simply isn't fair. Surely being accepted for a panel badge is enough to qualify as a special case.

[veraca]

I'm genuinely curious, Blackjack. What special case or perks do you want? Do you want the ability for panelists to get refunds come hand-in-hand with the acquisition of the panelist badge? ie. Person A. buys a regular badge, few months later they're confirmed for a panelist badge, and they want that, they get the difference in price of the two badges returned to them.

[Sailor-Jeimi]

I personally think the no refunds thing for cons is messed up..Like, so if someone is in a car accident before con and can no longer attend, it's just "Oh I'm sorry you got badly injured that's bad..Oh yea, by the way, we are keeping your money..Tough sh*t"..I know it isn't said like that, but that's how it feels to us.


The panel thing is another example of crap at it's finest.
What we are basically getting is a nice version of this:
"You didn't get accepted, so now you have to spend more becasue we want more of your money..Yes you could have bought the cheaper admission badge before, but then you wouldn't have MAYBE gotten the badge the panelists got. So now you have to spend more becasue we just don't care if how uch you personally have to spend, it's not our money. Either spend more than the other people, or just pray and hope you don't have to spend EVEN MORE!..Again, too bad.."
Either way you do it, there's a bigger chance you will get MORE money out of us..Either we wait and hope to get accepted as that kind of panelist for less money, or we a) spend more than other panelists just in case which we should not have to do, or b) spend the new higher amount closer to con becasue got rejected and now we can't get the price it was when we were told to wait. You are forcing the higher price on us at the point of rejection..Telling us not to buy a normal badge, then saying tough luck now you have to pay more..


When in reality, it's not hard to get the first and last name of a person, and find that in the paypal, and just refund X amount.


And I know this is not just Kumoricon, I get that. I'm saying in general, this policy is just stupid. To me, it just seems greedy..It sounds like giving someone $10 who didn't make it as a panelist, will suddenly make the con crash and burn..Like, you were alredy willing to sell them the badge at the lower price if they waited right? so in reality, you gained extra money that wasn't accounted for. Money that CAN EASILY go back without something happening. But you still refuse. Further only proving my point that cons just want our money and don't care.


Idk, I know a bunch of you will disagree, but this is how I feel on the subject. My points are pretty valid and I've shown my reasons to why I said them..


BAsically, for the panel badges, if you are gonna force is to wait for a badge where we can't buy the lower priced ones, then turn us down, don't expect us to be happy about buying the higher priced ones..That's basically ripping us off..We could have easily paid for the cheaper one long before. The least you can do is give us the price we could have had the whole damn time you forced us to wait then rejected us. It's not fair to the people you forced to wait.

[JeffT]

I'm gonna chime in with some thoughts from my perspective of being staff for 9 years. However, this isn't an official answer, and I am not in charge of these areas to make a decision... just perspective from being on staff.

Yes. You are right that it is inconsistent to not refund the difference in price from an attendee membership to panelist membership, or to give you a registration coupon for the price of the previous tier attendee membership.

However, the issue isn't money. It's time. A membership staffer years ago said that it takes 30 times as long to process a membership in which special attention is required than one in which everything goes normally. Personally, from having worked with staff registration, I can confirm. Either giving a refund, or arranging a discounted registration, requires time and attention, and it's a process the convention has not decided to set up yet. All of our staff are volunteers and that's time that would take the place of other things to make the con better, that in most cases will affect a lot more people than the number of people this situation affects (panelists who were rejected - and then from that group, those who were ready, willing, and able to register in a previous tier). And then in that case, it's only $5 (or sometimes $10 for smaller subset who were ready, willing, and able to register in the tier before that).

Panelist memberships are a special opportunity. Not everything about it is implemented perfectly or fits everybody. Yes, some people will need to make a choice about whether to pre-register now or later.

Kumoricon, like many other anime conventions, uses the model of non-refundable memberships with pre-registration discounts so that money coming in throughout the year helps fund the upcoming convention and provides more accurate attendance predictions. Also, Kumoricon, like many other anime conventions, may make rare exceptions or work with you if a true emergency happens such as a car accident before con.

The panel thing is another example of crap at it's finest.

That's basically ripping us off..

the price we could have had the whole damn time you forced us to wait then rejected us.

5 dollars.

[Valkyrie542]

Now that I think about it, is there a reason as to why the pre-registration fee goes up from $30 to $45 over time?

Why hasn't there ever been a fixed price?

[Sailor-Jeimi]

Now that I think about it, is there a reason as to why the pre-registration fee goes up from $30 to $45 over time?

Why hasn't there ever been a fixed price?

Most cons use the "We are getting bigger and need to have more money to buy things" reason. Which makes sense..As years go by, things in the world cost more. Their rent for the 2 hotels to hold it could easily sky rocket the next year, as well as any other money needed to hold the event.


And JeffT,
While I get your point, I really do, that still doesn't sound very professional. All you did was basically say, in a long way "Its's only $5, get over it". That whole multi quote with "5 dollars" typed under it sounds very much like a "get over it"..Which is very professional (obvious sarcasm).
It doesn't matter if it's $5 or $500. The point is that you are forcing someone to pay you more money by making them wait only to reject their panel. When, if they never submitted the damn thing in the first place they wouldn't have to spend more. It's not the amount, it's the principle of it. Others that didn't have to wait and hope got in for less money, it's not fair the ones you forced to wait.


You can disagree with my opinion all you want, that doesn't make you right. All of my points are true.

[veraca]

Now that I think about it, is there a reason as to why the pre-registration fee goes up from $30 to $45 over time?

Why hasn't there ever been a fixed price?

If you mean strictly throughout the year, from like 2014-2015 as it goes up, that's supply and demand ratios. There's less badges available to purchase in April than there were available in the prior December. Pretty sure that's the reason for a yearly increase.
As for an increase each year from 2011, 2012, 2013, ect... that's due to things like rent for the hotel space, electrical and if they need to make use of the location's specific staff (ie. Sakura Con has to make use of the Convention Center's staff).

[Valkyrie542]

Now that I think about it, is there a reason as to why the pre-registration fee goes up from $30 to $45 over time?

Why hasn't there ever been a fixed price?

If you mean strictly throughout the year, from like 2014-2015 as it goes up, that's supply and demand ratios. There's less badges available to purchase in April than there were available in the prior December. Pretty sure that's the reason for a yearly increase.
As for an increase each year from 2011, 2012, 2013, ect... that's due to things like rent for the hotel space, electrical and if they need to make use of the location's specific staff (ie. Sakura Con has to make use of the Convention Center's staff).

Ohh, that makes sense, thanks!

[BlackjackGabbiani]

I'm genuinely curious, Blackjack. What special case or perks do you want? Do you want the ability for panelists to get refunds come hand-in-hand with the acquisition of the panelist badge? ie. Person A. buys a regular badge, few months later they're confirmed for a panelist badge, and they want that, they get the difference in price of the two badges returned to them.

I wouldn't even consider that a perk. Just common sense.

Basically, the ability to buy a badge, and then if they get approved for the panel rate (which was 20 last year, since there was some confusion) they get refunded the difference.