Thought I'd share a philosophical/mathematic principle

[DancingTofu]

There are one of two possibilities:
1. the universe is infinite
2. the universe is finite.

This is based on the ideal that the universe is infinite.  A lot of people settle with option 2 because option 1 is too difficult to conceptualize.

This principle is based on a number of existing principles.


Let's start with a simple 2-option variable.  An unbounded figure is made up of black pixels and white pixels.  You can not only zoom in infinitely; you can also zoom OUT infinitely; this concept is similar to the central theories behind fractals, but much simpler than something like the Mandelbrot set.  Because only a finite amount can be viewed, only a finite number of pixels is seen at any given time.  Let's say that the resolution of our view is limited to 4x4.  We thus see 16 pixels at any given point in time.  Because these pixels are composed of black pixels and white pixels, they appear in greyscale.  Unlike our resolution, this greyscale is defined infinitely.

THE PIXELS WILL NEVER BE BLACK OR WHITE.

This holds true because even a figure with a ratio of infinite white to 1 black is still greyscale.  However, because each pixel has an infinite number of randomly generated pixels within it, the actual ratio is infinite to infinite.  This winds up somewhere between black and white, but never equal to either.  As infinite is extended again infinitely, we wind up with something quite peculiar:



Delving further, we can try to simplify this by dividing out infinite.  However, we do so only to find that this does not change the figure.  This is because infinite cannot be treated as a figure because it's a rate.


Thus, we have 16 grey pixels which are the average values of an infinite number of black and white pixels and an infinite rate of finite arrays of grey pixels.  We will assume that there is a 50% chance of each pixel being either black or white.  Logically, one would assume that our 4x4 screen would appear true grey (a perfect balance of white and black) the further you zoom out, and since there is neither a beginning nor an end, it would make sense that every screen would appear true grey, because every pixel is the result of and infinite amount of pixels being averaged.  However, this is quite far from true.  Not only would every screen not always appear true grey; an infinitely small percentage of possible screens would be true gray. 


However, some screens would be true grey.  In fact, you could state any rational (mathematical definition) input for our 4x4 screen and zoom in OR out infinitely and encounter that screen not once, but an infinite number of times.  You will also encounter every other rational input for our 4x4 screen an infinite number of times.  In addition, you will encounter an infinite number of irrational inputs an infinite number of times more often than you encounter rational inputs.



What this all means in an infinite universe is that unique is irrelevant.  Because there is a finite inward viewport (subatomic structures), this is actually simpler than the 4x4 concept because we only have rational figures.  Let's say that we have an infinite universe where every object is defined by 10 factors, either a or b (like DNA).  We thus have 1024 possibilities.  When this situation is extended to infinite, we have a ratio of 1:1023 for each object to each other object.  However, our ratio is infinite, and thus our value is actually infinite to infinite, like in the 4x4 concept.

Thus, there is an infinite amount of each of our 1024 objects.  Let's say that each environment is composed of 30 objects.  Thus, there are 1024^30 (approximately 2037000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000) different possible environments.  1024 of these possible environments are just the same object; 30 of them.  1024 out of 2.037x10^30 are environments made of all the same thing.  But, because of the infinite nature of this hypothetical universe, there are not only an infinite number of uniform environments like this, there are an infinite number of infinitely large collections of these uniform environments.

But we aren't made of 10 genes; we're made of 80,000 or so, plus environmental factors.  Despite this, if our universe is infinite, or finite but so large that it outstrips the vast amount of factors that make us unique (2.510x10^24082 from genetics alone), there is someone who is EXACTLY LIKE YOU IN EVERY WAY.  If the universe is, in fact, infinite, there are an infinite number of people who have the exact same life as you; this document is being typed in an infinite number of places by an infinite number of DancingTofu's.  It is simultaneously being finished, started, pondered, and disregarded by an infinite number of DancingTofu's.  This is not a theory of parallel universes; it's a principal of infinite recurring rationals.

[dshwshr55]

I disagree with the whole concept of "infinity". Infinity may seem logical and rational at first, but proven wrong, yet right at the same time.

First of all, infinity USUALLY (as in the case of the universe) starts somewhere; the center of the universe expanding outward, for instance. The universe's Omega Scale is a -10 ---- 0 ---- 10 scale that determines whether the universe is contracting or expanding, respectively, and at what pace. Right now, the current position is at 0, neither getting bigger, nor smaller. How they know this at the moment, I don't know. I'm just the messenger.
By that standard, the universe is finite; it HAS a starting point (the center) and an ending point (the furthest edges). But it is infinite in the fact that we should never reach the edge of the universe because we can get halfway there, then cut that distance in half, then cut that distance in half, then cut that distance in half, etc. No matter where you are or how close you get, you can get just a LITTLE bit closer before reaching it.

Now the black and white theory may or may not be true. Only if you're starting at a grey point somewhere inbetween "black" and "white" does it make sense. But if you START your point on black, then you instantly have one point you say is impossible to obtain.
Black, white, and grey may be a difficult example, though. Black is defined as absence of color, whereas white contains the whole spectrum (as you can see through a diamond or in a waterfall, or on a certain Pink Floyd album ^^). When you add white to black, you're not getting grey, you're getting the illusion of grey through the spectrum of 7 basic colors.

Finally, the whole theory of "infinity" is solidly disproven through a simple example that anyone can understand. It kind of relates to the finite-universe thing. You're playing DDR and you go to step on an arrow. You can cut the distance from your foot to the pad in half an infinite number of times. Infinite. Therefore, you can NEVER truely touch the pad, because the distance is still able to be shortened without actually touching it. Or it can be applied to a heart beating, in the time it takes for a heartbeat to happen. The timing for the beat can be shortened an inifite amount of times, thus putting life as we know it in a suspended animation, yet not actually suspended.
So how can it be that we are able to play DDR at all? Infinity is just a concept created by human nature to attempt to account for things that we don't understand. It's just not real.

[superjaz]

okay here is mine no offence atheists

the big bang happend when God put a pop in the freazer to get cold and forgot and it exploaded

[dshwshr55]

Also the Universe is finite. We know that it is slowing down in it's outwards acceleration and will eventually stop. Then the universe will have so much mass it will start to once again collapse on itself.

For a really good and easy way to understand this read Michio Kaku's book "Hyperspace: A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps, and the 10th Dimension". I highly recommend it.

Definitely! That was always my thought, too. If the universe kept expanding, all matter at a minute, micro-atomic level would begin to stretch and pull away from each other, consequently separating solid masses to compensate for the extra space being created.

[melchizedek]

sorry tofu, your post is too long I didn't finish...

[DancingTofu]

It's not that the matter is expanding; it's that the absence of matter is expanding.  Because gravitational attractions decrease at a rate of of negative pi(4/3)d^3, the attraction between two bodies decreases faster than acceleration in certain cases, which decreases at a rate of negative (F)d.  If you're not sure what I mean, think of the moon orbiting the earth (the moment of orbit is causing it to move further away), the earth orbiting the sun (fairly constant orbit; we aren't getting closer or further), and a basketball orbiting the rim of a hoop. (it will eventually either fall out or in, depending on whether its rotational momentum is greater than its gravitational momentum.)

Also, the big bang would cause all matter to be expelled outward at similar rates; thus you'd have a hollow sphere of space occupied by the matter expelled.  Matter within this sphere would gravitate towards other matter within the sphere, and you'd wind up with a gyroscope effect, with all matter suspended 10^1000 to 10^3000 lightyears from the initial source of the big bang by other matter; because of the explosive nature of it all, there wouldn't be any singular implosion; certainly nowhere near the same spot as the initial explosion (no, I don't mean combustion, I mean explosion).  What would more likely happen is something like this:
Scale of concentration: white >> black >> dark purple >> light purple >> blue >> cyan
Red dot = ground zero


And from there, it should be obvious.



Also, TL;DR
Infinity is a pretty cool guy, he defies rationality and doesn't afraid of anything.

[melchizedek]

pie are squared?

[dshwshr55]

On a different note, why is there a hollow space anyways? The Big Bang is simply the outward expanding universe it is at the current moment, only on a larger explosive scale. Thus, more matter should magically be appearing in that space, as it did back in the initial bang.

[DancingTofu]

The Big Bang theory argues that all the matter that is now the universe was condensed into a very small volume such that it was more dense than the nucleus of an atom.  The amount of pressure generated by this density would cause everything to just get silly, and antimatter occured.  In the instant antimatter occured, matter and antimatter decayed into non-matter and caused a big bang, propelling the universe out into void.

Matter is not created; although it is negated by antimatter.  Antimatter doesn't make sense at all, but that's alright, because we know it exists and that positrons hurt.

[dshwshr55]

Seriously? I wonder if they'll start making cars that run on anti-matter someday. That's about the price of a full tank of gas.
I mean, technology is infinite ^^  Remember back in the late 80's, when they had the acme of video gaming and graphics? I wonder what they'll do after VR interactive simulations. 

[DancingTofu]

Dreamworld Gaming.  Tap into the actual cranial processors and neurons to create a controlled dream, even a multiplayer one perhaps, where graphics are boundless, physics are flawless, and possibilities are endless.

It's an idea I came up with years ago and I've been waiting eagerly for the last 8 generations of technological advancement and I'm still far away from realising it, but I am pretty sure it's possible.

Patrick, just because we understand it doesn't mean it makes sense.  I understand that women are possessed by demons monthly and I haven't made sense of that yet.

[dshwshr55]

Maybe they're part of the whole equation...?

[DancingTofu]

Women?  Nowai; they were a miscalculation, like 42.