Author Topic: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)  (Read 77202 times)

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Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #100 on: October 08, 2008, 12:43:43 am »
Though personally I'll probably be in the Obama get-out-the-vote canvas/phonebank that weekend, if enough of us are going to the KC Mini Con at PSU Nov. 1st, maybe there could be a meet-up?
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Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #101 on: October 08, 2008, 01:20:06 am »
I'd be up for it if I wind up going, since I'm having a Halloween party the day before.

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #102 on: October 08, 2008, 03:12:47 pm »
Yes yes, of course this panel is still being planned... quite literally in fact. I've been struggling to put into words what I want the panel description to be, so far it goes something like this...

"LGBTQ Meet-up Panel: Are you LGBTQ or an ally? Come hang out in a homophobia-free area and discuss LGTQ experiences related to anime and anime conventions. Also, we're going to play some games and talk about Queer people in the anime/manga industry."

Yeah okay so it needs some work. I'm really tempted to throw "and whether CLAMP are lesbians" onto the end of the last sentense but I fear some people might take offense :D. Any suggestions?

And sadly I'm going to miss the KC Mini Con this year... NaNoWriMo starts that day. :\ Sorry guys.


Heehee, and it occurs to me that if everything works out I'll probably be wearing the same outfit as my icon while I'm running this panel.  :) I suppose I'll be easy to recognize.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 03:14:56 pm by murder_of_raven »

Offline xxxchihiroxxx

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #103 on: October 09, 2008, 09:16:25 pm »
xD i still cant wait

and i would laugh so hard if you tacked the "and wether clamp are lesbians" on the end... if you look at card capotors it may all seem like really incocent but in reality its kinda messed up for a kids thing ._. for one Sakura is in love with a guy like 6 or so years older than her... and shes ten >.> her best friend has a huge crush on her, and their cousins. her mother was like 16 when she married the teacher I think? (Sakuras dad) and then I think she had sakuras brother like one year later O_O and then throw in that syrone is gay for the one guy that Sakura likes.... and then one of sakuras clas smates (another ten year old) is dating their 30 year old teacher.
returning with a vengeance to K con~

Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #104 on: October 12, 2008, 01:08:26 am »
xD i still cant wait

and i would laugh so hard if you tacked the "and wether clamp are lesbians" on the end... if you look at card capotors it may all seem like really incocent but in reality its kinda messed up for a kids thing ._. for one Sakura is in love with a guy like 6 or so years older than her... and shes ten >.> her best friend has a huge crush on her, and their cousins. her mother was like 16 when she married the teacher I think? (Sakuras dad) and then I think she had sakuras brother like one year later O_O and then throw in that syrone is gay for the one guy that Sakura likes.... and then one of sakuras clas smates (another ten year old) is dating their 30 year old teacher.

Well two things are important to remember when it comes to CCS: the characters, while young, are all fairly close to age of consent in Japan (12). And also, CCS is fairly old and until recently such age gaps weren't just accepted in Japan, they were openly romanticized. But yes, very odd.

And Tomoyo and Sakura are only half-cousins, (their mothers were cousins) which of course, is legal right here in the US.

What really throws CLAMP's sexuality into question is their afterwards in Miyuki-chan in Wonderland and the CLAMP Westside/Eastside artbooks, in which they essentially go off on how much they like drawing partially naked women.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 08:43:02 pm by murder_of_raven »

Offline Serika

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2008, 09:34:20 pm »
What really throws CLAMP's sexuality into question is their afterwards in Tomoyo-chan in Wonderland and the CLAMP Westside/Eastside artbooks, in which they essentially go off on how much they like drawing partially naked women.

I was about to say, "But I like drawing partially naked women!"

And then I remembered why and that didn't exactly help.
lol peer pressure

Plans:
Kumoricon '11: Catherine (Catherine), Nanami (Revolutionary Girl Utena)
Sakuracon '12: Ryfia (Arc Rise Fantasia), other things

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Racism, Homophobia, (Segregation, maybe?) in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #106 on: October 19, 2008, 01:20:07 pm »
After living in Japan for two years and experiencing 'model minority' racism and also overt, legal (in Japan) discrimination such as No-Gai-Jin apartment and hotel ads, I then moved back to the US when the economy here improved a bit, and I ended up in rural, southern Indiana. Sure, only a 30 min drive from Louisville KY where I could meet and hang with SF fans, SCA people and other non-mundanes, but still...

One night in Indiana I saw a real cross-burning. I couldn't believe my eyes. I remember thinking "wait, this is filming for a documentary or something, right?" But no, there it was, burning in the night.

As one community response, in the town library, they put a blank book of lined pages on a pedestal. On the wall facing there was a large Confederate flag. For those who make a distinction, it was the design called (wiki, wiki, google, google, can't find it, never mind,) ... it was the type with the blue 'X' and stars over all-red, like the 'Dukes of Hazzard.' There is another Confederate design with two red bars and a circle of stars in a blue corner, but that's not the one. Anyways, it was the 'X' one. There was a curtain like in a voting booth, so you couldn't see if a visitor wrote in the book or not. And there was a sign between the book and the flag: "What does this symbol mean to YOU?" The book was in a plastic case so you could only write on the one open page at a time. You could not turn pages to flip through other peoples' comments, see who signed, or cross out other stuff.
 
Intriguing idea came to me: Let me write an analogy first, then propose an unusual idea.

When researchers endeavor to create a vaccine for a disease several things happen:
- You have to go get a LIVING SAMPLE.
- You take precautions, like wearing gloves when prepping a specimen, washing your hands, etc.
- You don't kill the specimen with bleach or sterilize it. You need to observe it in its natural habitat to understand how it lives or spreads.
- You wear a mask and a cap so you don't contaminate your own culture into the culture you are trying to observe.
- Lastly, you have to reach out kindly to those who have the disease in order for them to be interested in treatment. Leprosy was never eradicated by stoning them in public, or driving them off into remote colonies, or making them walk around in sack cloths and a bell saying "Unclean - keep away from me!" like in the Middle Ages.)

OK. So: People report that someone we'll call 'person A' observed acts of affection, or closeness, or whatever it was, which triggers in that person a feeling of having a lot less fun at Kumoricon, and SOMETHING caused person A to react in a manner so that on the whole, MORE people had a lot LESS fun in that time and place. Sound fair and complete? If not, please elaborate and comment. I am writing as generically and inclusively as possible. I wasn't there. Anyways, we all feel that this should NOT happen.

Now here's the odd-ball idea: Let's go get a SAMPLE and ANALYZE it. To do this, I was thinking of that blank book. Why not set up a temporary, anonymous blog where anyone can post what they feel and why they react like that? There would be no real identities, forum nicknames, logins or registrations required. Just type your feelings and experiences, and press 'Submit.'

OTOH, the blog wouldn't DISPLAY the texts - that would be like graffiti. You don't want to encourage people by leaving what might be called hate-speech up on display. (Just like painting over graffiti - you deny the twit with the spraycan his big public audience.) So just a place to collect comments and feelings.

We would have to keep our word that no one is gonna collect IP addresses, round up a lynch mob, witch hunt, or an 'outing' party. Otherwise the people we need to study won't post their true emotions and reactions, and we won't get an accurate picture of the problem. One other aspect of no-names is that this project is NOT about enabling individuals to identify and contact each other to coalesce into an underground skin-head club, or "safe-haven-for-racism" Internet community.

Anyways, then a diverse group of staff, or anti-discrimination team can analyze the comments, and plan countermeasures designed from an understanding of (at least some) of the root causes and attitudes.

Comments?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 01:59:32 pm by Prinz Eugen »

Offline Wuntvor

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #107 on: October 19, 2008, 03:14:44 pm »
I'm going to toss in my two cents.  First off, I am a "straight" white male.  I am married to a wonderful woman who I started dating in Junior High.  She is from Bolivia, and has a definite "Latino" appearance.  She is actually one of the South American natives (That was always a problem on the forms, no I'm not a Mexican, no I'm not a Native American, I'm a South American)  Everyone assumes on seeing her that she can speak Spanish.  She was adopded by a single parent (First one in Oregon she was told) and has lived in US since she was 1 year old.  She did take Spanish in College.  Anyway, I have had to put up with some bigotry, but not nearly as bad now as it used to be.  I always wonder if things happen to her when I am not with her.  She sometimes gets distant, and it worries me.

On another note, my best friend in High school (he was the DM/GM for all of the role playing games I used to play back in the 80's) came out of the closet around 1983 or so.  Two years after I graduated from high school.  He is one of those people who once he decides something, goes all out.  I had a very interesting couple of years around then.  I can still remember driving down 7th street through downtown Eugene and having him whistle at guys out the window of my car.  I just wanted to curl up and die.  :-[  He also invited me to a couple of "community" get togethers in town.  Definitely more than I needed to see.  I had a feeling that everyone was trying to embaress me as much as possible, or maybe using me to prove to themselves that they were OK with being open in front of someone who wasn't of the same sexual persuassion as themselves.  A very "touchy feely" group of individuals.  That said, I am probably like most "straight" individuals, I'm OK with you being the way you are, just don't shove it in my face.

On bigotry.  I am a bigot.  I am not proud of the fact, and I am still uncertain of the cause, I believe a lot of it comes from Movies and TV,  I am uncomfortable around African Americans, especially the very dark skinned ones.  I have no basis for this, I just am.  I have often thought that if I could work with, or go to school with, or live near, someone like this, that I may be able to befriend that individual and get rid of this unreasonable bias I have.  I never have had that opportunity.  I don't hate these individuals, I don't intend to do anything cruel to them, or use their skin tone as a reason for excluding them from activities, or promotion.  I just feel uncomfortable among them.  It is strange, I had a Korean work partner for over a year.  A really nice person, I am married to a South American,  I have a friend who is a Native American.  I love Japanese anime and attending Asian festivals.  I hosted a Russian family in my home for two weeks, none of this was a problem for me, but put me with a dark skinned African American with corn rows, or dreadlocks, and I totally close myself off.  I have no idea why.  I love Sidney Poitier, and Bill Cosby, Whoopie Goldberg, Eddie Murphy, and any number of other African American actors.  I enjoy watching them perform, and admire their skill,  I watched Roots and even read the book. I was so moved at times that I wanted to just punch some faces, so yes I hate people that are bigoted against individuals because of the color of their skin. Still doesn't stop me from having these irrational feelings. (sigh)
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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Anon Board
« Reply #108 on: October 19, 2008, 05:09:05 pm »
It also occurs to me that the anonymous board suggestion might also be a place for people who feel they've been mistreated to relate their experiences too, so that a larger picture of the situation may be taken in.

That plus some means to estimate whether the anecdotes recorded are real or therapeutic fanfic.
Maybe people would do that just to blow off steam in response to some other real, upsetting experience.

Offline Serika

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #109 on: October 20, 2008, 01:00:46 am »
Well it might be interesting to see the anonymous book thing in action, I'm kind of doubting there will be a lot they can do after the fact.  They can't force their attendees to tolerate or enjoy another person they would typically avoid or make fun of in the streets.  Relay this idea to them if you feel it would be helpful, though I personally don't think it'd be as successful. 

As for the racism thing, that sounds like you need therapy.  I'm not saying this in a condescending, "You're whacked up dood!  lol" way, as I had depression awhile back and needed to attend therapy regularly.  Oregon, and I'm assuming Washington, don't have a large amount of black people(yes, I said black, and get this: most BLACK PEOPLE prefer to be known as BLACKS and not AFRICAN AMERICANS lulz), so it's difficult to get to know very many people who aren't white, or light-skinned.  Only recently have I actually had *non-white* people in my classes at school and I have become friends with them.  But therapy will help you correct your wrong behaviors assuming you are able to spill to them as much as you are able to spill to us. 

Unfortunately, (and I'm pretty sure I'm speaking for the entire "group" when I say this,) that is exactly the kind of behavior we are trying to stop.  Please don't treat us and other gays/transsexuals/whatevers as though we are aliens who think we're "above" straights.  The reason many only associate with other gays?  They have that same sort of behavior.  Generally speaking, gay people are going to be pretty accepting of other gay people.  Straight people will sometimes be so terrified that gays will OMG HIT ON/RAPE THEM. 

We won't.  Stop acting like we're some kind of criminal.  We won't be open with you because you'll think we're trying to prove something to ourselves.  We won't be open with you because you'll be afraid we'll shove it in your face.  We won't be open with you because you'll act as though you'll get our "gay disease" by being near our now-out selves.  We won't be open with you because you'll avoid us like the plague since we'll "suddenly be interested" in your straight self. 

Think of it as a privilige that different people are accepting YOU. 


(for the record, many gays try to AVOID the situation you're depicting of them shoving it in your face and hitting on you, for fear of their own reputation and safety.  How is it any different to be seated next to a straight guy whistling at girls?  It's not.  You're just making it into this big thing because OH NO WHAT IF SOMEONE SEES YOU IN A CAR NEXT TO A GAY GUY OMG OMGOMGOMG)
lol peer pressure

Plans:
Kumoricon '11: Catherine (Catherine), Nanami (Revolutionary Girl Utena)
Sakuracon '12: Ryfia (Arc Rise Fantasia), other things

Offline Wuntvor

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #110 on: October 20, 2008, 12:55:53 pm »
Serika,

I read back through my post, and I guess I didn't quite make myself as clear as I wanted. I would probably curl up and die if my "straight" friends whistled at girls out the window as well,  I do remember going out on Prom night during High School and wishing one of my friends would quit yelling out the window.  I mainly put that in to point out the type of switch he had taken in just a week.  As I stated, once he made up his mind, he went all out.

My wife is a "furry" artist.  We actually had a booth at ConiFur NW for a couple of years.  We were staying at my best friends home up in Seattle with him and his "significant other".  We stayed for 3 days.  The apartment had very thin walls.  Nuff said.  I still consider him a close friend.  We don't communicate much anymore since he moved so far away from Eugene.  I am just stating all of this to point out that I have seen a lot of "the community" in various guises.  I have been looked at by guys in such a way that I know they were imagining something.  I have also met plenty of women who were interested in each other much more than in me.  I suppose that is to be expected because of where these events occured.  I guess I am just trying to say that for a "straight" guy I have had much more contact with "the community" than most.  Having your best friend come out of the closet is a definite eye opener.  Give me points for deciding that he hadn't changed.  He was still the same person he was before, and if he was happy with his choice, who am I to tell him different?  He is still my bud.

I actually have had counseling for depression.  Totally different reason though.  That had to do with my parents vacation in Europe during April of 1986 when all hell broke loose overseas.  Disco bombing, attack on Libia, Chernobyl.  Yep I was a mess.  Didn't help that my wife took our daughter and went to stay with her mom, and our cat of 15 yrs died, I had a new job, and I was taking care of my sister.  I was so stressed out I couldn't function.
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Offline Serika

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #111 on: October 20, 2008, 08:01:37 pm »
I'm going to respond in pieces since it's difficult to try and address this all in one piece.  And it's a little hard for me to read your words in quotations without thinking you're talking very ironically, so sorry if I'm taking your messages wrong, which it looks like I already have. 

Serika,

I read back through my post, and I guess I didn't quite make myself as clear as I wanted. I would probably curl up and die if my "straight" friends whistled at girls out the window as well,  I do remember going out on Prom night during High School and wishing one of my friends would quit yelling out the window.  I mainly put that in to point out the type of switch he had taken in just a week.  As I stated, once he made up his mind, he went all out.
While I do agree that would get very annoying after a little while, I don't think prom is a time when high schoolers are particularly known for being mature and composed.  I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only guy making an idiot of himself on prom night.  Of course, I wasn't there, but it's practically a law of prom night that you act like an idiot in public to strangers.  Never mind, I read that wrong.  If I were to defend him, which of course I will because I don't know when to let things lie, I'd bet that he'd probably have wanted to be that open for long; it seems very unlikely that he could have gone from mentally being a shy kid to a complete flirt.  People can't act on one behavior when they're concealing another, does that make sense at all?


Quote
My wife is a "furry" artist.  We actually had a booth at ConiFur NW for a couple of years.  We were staying at my best friends home up in Seattle with him and his "significant other".  We stayed for 3 days.  The apartment had very thin walls.  Nuff said.  I still consider him a close friend.  We don't communicate much anymore since he moved so far away from Eugene.  I am just stating all of this to point out that I have seen a lot of "the community" in various guises.
I think my issue is that to me, it seems a little like you're saying it'd be less awkard if this was a straight couple.  It's ALWAYS awkward hearing/seeing/thinking of people you know doing their various illicit activies I probably can't talk about on this board.  Whether they're straight or gay or relatives or buddhist or whatever inbetween, it'll ALWAYS be awkward.  This just doesn't seem like it'd be much different to me.  Just because they happened to be the "exception to the norm" in your experience won't make it any harder to forget, trust me. 

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I have been looked at by guys in such a way that I know they were imagining something. 
It is awkward for me when guys hit on me too.  They're straight, I like to think I'm not very heterophobic. 

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I have also met plenty of women who were interested in each other much more than in me.  I suppose that is to be expected because of where these events occured. 
In my own experience, cons tend to make people giddier, more outgoing, and friskier.  Since the furry community is stereotypically known for being a very open homosexual community, I can imagine what a con would be like with all these people already half-high on energy drinks and whatnot.  (Of course, furry communities are going to be 18+, so that's sorta an older crowd than half of an anime convention, so they might be more mature, but still...) I'm not sure if cons are a very good judge of person; they tend to showcase the extremes in some people.  On top of that, you only remember the significant events... See what I'm getting at here?

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I guess I am just trying to say that for a "straight" guy I have had much more contact with "the community" than most.  Having your best friend come out of the closet is a definite eye opener.  Give me points for deciding that he hadn't changed.  He was still the same person he was before, and if he was happy with his choice, who am I to tell him different?  He is still my bud.
Kudos to you for that then, I was a little under the impression that you had turned your back on him or something simply because he's gay even though it would have still been easy to talk to him and hang out with him and all that.  I have a couple friends I've known for years that I haven't come out to for fear they'll treat me as though my preference for something completely changes who I am. 

Quote
I actually have had counseling for depression.  Totally different reason though.  That had to do with my parents vacation in Europe during April of 1986 when all hell broke loose overseas.  Disco bombing, attack on Libia, Chernobyl.  Yep I was a mess.  Didn't help that my wife took our daughter and went to stay with her mom, and our cat of 15 yrs died, I had a new job, and I was taking care of my sister.  I was so stressed out I couldn't function.
I'm sorry to hear that.  I'm sure you've had firsthand experience with how beneficial it is then, and understand that perhaps when you have the time you could see one about your current issue. 
lol peer pressure

Plans:
Kumoricon '11: Catherine (Catherine), Nanami (Revolutionary Girl Utena)
Sakuracon '12: Ryfia (Arc Rise Fantasia), other things

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #112 on: December 13, 2008, 12:31:27 am »
I think a part of the "homophobia" in yaoi/yuri is partly from those who absolutely love it shoving it in the face of those who aren't into it.

I use this example because many can say that they've experienced/witnessed/heard about it.

At Sakura-con there's this guy who works at one of the tables selling yaoi.  He use to scream "YAOI!" out loud and would practically kidnap people to the table so they could look at the yaoi they had.

From what I've been told, he was asked by the con to tone it down, and he has thus far, but there are some who still forcefeed it down others throats.

Me, for example.  I don't care if people are into it or not; I also feel that was about homosexuality, as well.  I don't care.  However, if it's forced upon me enough, I get disgusted by it and (more accurately) with the person.

There's this guy that I've started to befriend over the past few months who's gay.  He understands that I'm not in favor of it.  One time he showed me some of his favorite male/yaoi erotica saved on his phone.  I didn't care.  In fact, I appreciated that he wasn't being so forceful about it, so I had no problem looking at it.

What I'm trying to say is, although homophobia isn't going to go away any time soon, it will help if those in favor of yaoi/yuri stop proclaiming its "greatness" and making those of us who are into guy-on-girl stuff accept their choice, it may help the cause of tolerance.
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Offline Deviant Spider

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #113 on: December 13, 2008, 06:31:06 pm »
I think a part of the "homophobia" in yaoi/yuri is partly from those who absolutely love it shoving it in the face of those who aren't into it.

I use this example because many can say that they've experienced/witnessed/heard about it.

At Sakura-con there's this guy who works at one of the tables selling yaoi.  He use to scream "YAOI!" out loud and would practically kidnap people to the table so they could look at the yaoi they had.

From what I've been told, he was asked by the con to tone it down, and he has thus far, but there are some who still forcefeed it down others throats.

Me, for example.  I don't care if people are into it or not; I also feel that was about homosexuality, as well.  I don't care.  However, if it's forced upon me enough, I get disgusted by it and (more accurately) with the person.

There's this guy that I've started to befriend over the past few months who's gay.  He understands that I'm not in favor of it.  One time he showed me some of his favorite male/yaoi erotica saved on his phone.  I didn't care.  In fact, I appreciated that he wasn't being so forceful about it, so I had no problem looking at it.

What I'm trying to say is, although homophobia isn't going to go away any time soon, it will help if those in favor of yaoi/yuri stop proclaiming its "greatness" and making those of us who are into guy-on-girl stuff accept their choice, it may help the cause of tolerance.

I agree with this. Honestly having gone to Sakuracon last year ALL I saw was "Yaoi-this" "Yaoi-that", I heart Yaoi panels....and so on. Frankly It kinda pissed me off. I believe that equality is more important than Yaoi-only. Thats why I made it a personal goal to have a Yuri panel this year at Kumoricon and it wasnt soley "sexualy baised".

There was a girl in the lobby at last years kumoricon who was shouting "Does anyone Like Yuri?" and I saw 3 people walk by and say "ew I only like Yaoi" I said I liked Yuri and she gave me a poster. It was sad.

I agree with many people who arent in to ANY form of hentai, Yaoi/Yuri/or Het, I cant take it seriously. I laugh my way through just about everything. But this is also why Kumoricon is trying to have more Adult theamed content that dosent involve genitalia! LOL. We will be greater than Sakuracon....*evil plot*  :)

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Offline Sporty_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #114 on: December 13, 2008, 08:57:48 pm »
this coming from the adult content coordinator too (whatever that means)

my girlfriend made me watch gravitation with her once and i didnt like it

whatever happened to guy on girl
don't expect to hear too much from me

just wanted to drop in and say hi

hi

Offline Deviant Spider

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #115 on: December 13, 2008, 09:14:27 pm »
this coming from the adult content coordinator too (whatever that means)

It means that I make sure everything from Sake Tasting to Hentai run smoothly durring the convention. Anything that requires ID checks I monitor and work with.



Nothing happened to it. We show everything at this convention. You can choose what you want panels you want to go too. Thats what I meant by equality. Im pretty open minded to all forms of our adult content so I try to make sure there is something for everyone. We are also looking into a Japanese Live action Horror viewing (since these would be rated R they would probably be 17+) in adult content. Its hard to find panelists who dont want to run some form of hentai though.  NEED more content.


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2009 Adult Content Coordinator
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Offline Sporty_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #116 on: December 13, 2008, 09:29:02 pm »
this coming from the adult content coordinator too (whatever that means)

It means that I make sure everything from Sake Tasting to Hentai run smoothly durring the convention. Anything that requires ID checks I monitor and work with.

oic  thank you for explaining that to me
don't expect to hear too much from me

just wanted to drop in and say hi

hi

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #117 on: December 13, 2008, 09:49:04 pm »
I think a part of the "homophobia" in yaoi/yuri is partly from those who absolutely love it shoving it in the face of those who aren't into it.

I use this example because many can say that they've experienced/witnessed/heard about it.

At Sakura-con there's this guy who works at one of the tables selling yaoi.  He use to scream "YAOI!" out loud and would practically kidnap people to the table so they could look at the yaoi they had.

From what I've been told, he was asked by the con to tone it down, and he has thus far, but there are some who still forcefeed it down others throats.

Me, for example.  I don't care if people are into it or not; I also feel that was about homosexuality, as well.  I don't care.  However, if it's forced upon me enough, I get disgusted by it and (more accurately) with the person.

There's this guy that I've started to befriend over the past few months who's gay.  He understands that I'm not in favor of it.  One time he showed me some of his favorite male/yaoi erotica saved on his phone.  I didn't care.  In fact, I appreciated that he wasn't being so forceful about it, so I had no problem looking at it.

What I'm trying to say is, although homophobia isn't going to go away any time soon, it will help if those in favor of yaoi/yuri stop proclaiming its "greatness" and making those of us who are into guy-on-girl stuff accept their choice, it may help the cause of tolerance.

I agree with this.

 We will be greater than Sakuracon....*evil plot*  :)

Thank you, and let's do it!!!
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Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #118 on: December 14, 2008, 03:42:35 am »
*is shocked* Wait did I read that right, someone says the age of consent in Japan is *twelve*? OMG that is WAYYYYYYY too young. Is that for both male and female? Is that for both het and non-het pairings? Holy moley, well that's a bit of context that would explain some stuff, but certainly not healthy imho. Wonder if that's true in other Asian countries and if so why there's so much "sex tourism" there which is really pedophilia? *Feels truly nauseous*

 
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Offline Sporty_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #119 on: December 14, 2008, 08:18:08 am »
i can see that being true

in bulgaria the age is fourteen
don't expect to hear too much from me

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Offline Wuntvor

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #120 on: December 14, 2008, 07:58:52 pm »
*is shocked* Wait did I read that right, someone says the age of consent in Japan is *twelve*? OMG that is WAYYYYYYY too young. Is that for both male and female? Is that for both het and non-het pairings? Holy moley, well that's a bit of context that would explain some stuff, but certainly not healthy imho. Wonder if that's true in other Asian countries and if so why there's so much "sex tourism" there which is really pedophilia? *Feels truly nauseous*

Actually it is 13,  there are different laws in every prefecture that effect sexual acts and there legality.  It may be OK for two 13 year olds to have sex, but not OK for an adult to ask a 13 year old to have sex, or for a 13 year old to prostitute herself, or to perform sexual acts witout parental permission.  Read the links below.  I am still trying to determine how they determine your age.  I think that legally they started using the Western system to determine age in 1902, but some areas still used the traditional system as late as 1950.  In any case I don't believe that you are a year old at birth in Japan anymore.  If anyone knows different please let me know.  Here are a couple of links I found on the subject:

http://www.ageofconsent.com/japan.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_age_reckoning#Japanese
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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #121 on: December 15, 2008, 08:16:11 am »
It would explain why shows like Ranma 1/2 aren't considered child porn.  lol  :D
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Offline BlackjackGabbiani

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #122 on: December 15, 2008, 08:16:37 pm »
Aren't they like 17 in Ranma? Or is that just Kuno and Nabiki's age?

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #123 on: December 15, 2008, 11:29:03 pm »
Yeah, Kuno & Nabiki are 17.  Most of them (Ranma, Akane, Ryoga, Ukyo, & maybe Shampoo & Mousse) are 16.
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Offline Sporty_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #124 on: December 15, 2008, 11:48:09 pm »
so is kunos little sister kodachi

dont forget about kasumi who is ninteen
don't expect to hear too much from me

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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #125 on: December 15, 2008, 11:49:26 pm »
Oh yeah, huh?  We could also speculate that Pantyhose Taro and Akari are 16.
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Offline Sporty_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #126 on: December 15, 2008, 11:50:26 pm »
who is akari
don't expect to hear too much from me

just wanted to drop in and say hi

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Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #127 on: December 15, 2008, 11:53:30 pm »
I don't think she was ever in the anime.  She was, however, in the manga.  She fell in love with Ryoga because he beat her Yokozuna pig.  Upon learning of his curse, she felt that they were destined to be together.
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Offline ThiefKingsHier

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #128 on: December 25, 2008, 03:14:33 pm »
 This may be a little late but don't have a computer at home, but the recent discusion brings up a poin of often think about.

 The question of underage content in anime.

 Really, what is it that makes the difference? There are a lot of charcters that look about eight years old and peoplell tell me  " Nu uh they are 16 +"
 
 Soo..then what is the point of having ages in anime? Really, it's just ind of..disturbing.


Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #129 on: December 26, 2008, 05:14:02 pm »
::ehem:: not to be like this, but this isn't really the place for a discussion of under-agedness in anime. I'd sorta like people to continue to talk about the possibility of an LGBTQ meet-up panel (which I'm willing to organize). If you'd like to talk about other stuff, feel free to make another thread (I am not too clear on the forum rules and I really really don't want this thread locked just because you guys wanted to talk about loli/shota off topic).

:3 thanks everybody!

Offline nekovamp13

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #130 on: December 27, 2008, 03:42:57 pm »
I still think it'd be great to have this. Being transgendered (mentally) it's hard to be able to freely talk about this kind of stuff. I would love to have a place where I, and others could easily and freely talk about this topic.

And even if we can't get a panel, I think there should be a meet up during one of the days.
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Offline RemSaverem

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #131 on: December 27, 2008, 11:15:38 pm »
*still squicked by young age of consent laws*
on the TG subject, I'm a support person for a friend just starting T to go FTM. :)
Ellen. 2003: Fanfic panelist & contest judge.
2004: Beta Station Coord. 2005: Fan Creation Station Coord.;pre-event assistant to the con chair.2006: Fanfic Mgr/C.S. Coord.
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #132 on: December 28, 2008, 02:03:30 pm »
I think, judging by the huge response we've gotten, this panel would be at least somewhat popular and I don't think we'll have much trouble getting it accepted. I'm going to submit panel form as soon as the 2009 ones are released ::nodnod::

In other news, Maddie Blaustein (voice actor of Meowth and one of the few trans voice actors) died recently T__T http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maddie_Blaustein

Offline Serika

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #133 on: December 28, 2008, 05:06:11 pm »
I am still very interested in this, so much I'm even planning to abandon my booth to come. D8;;; So I'll be sad if it doesn't happen for whatever reason. 
lol peer pressure

Plans:
Kumoricon '11: Catherine (Catherine), Nanami (Revolutionary Girl Utena)
Sakuracon '12: Ryfia (Arc Rise Fantasia), other things

Offline nekovamp13

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #134 on: December 28, 2008, 09:52:53 pm »
I just hope that it won't be happening during something else that I'd want to go to (has happened to me multible times TT.TT).
And I hope my friend wouldn't mind coming along...I don't think she would...
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Offline SachiNoDa

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #135 on: January 03, 2009, 06:54:38 am »
This would be an awesome panel, and I would be more than happy to show up for it. <3<3
Kumoricon '08
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Offline Serika

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #136 on: April 02, 2009, 09:14:43 pm »
^^^Please come to this panel wearing Linda, and I'll love you forever.


Okay, JUST CHECKING AGAIN is this still being planned?

And I doubt we'd need a guard or anything considering all the yaoi fangirls but perhaps we should inform the staff that there's a slim chance there could be a few disgruntled parents/congoers.  You know how people can be. >>;;;
lol peer pressure

Plans:
Kumoricon '11: Catherine (Catherine), Nanami (Revolutionary Girl Utena)
Sakuracon '12: Ryfia (Arc Rise Fantasia), other things

Offline Washougal_Otaku

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #137 on: April 06, 2009, 09:59:30 am »
::ehem:: not to be like this, but this isn't really the place for a discussion of under-agedness in anime. I'd sorta like people to continue to talk about the possibility of an LGBTQ meet-up panel (which I'm willing to organize). If you'd like to talk about other stuff, feel free to make another thread (I am not too clear on the forum rules and I really really don't want this thread locked just because you guys wanted to talk about loli/shota off topic).

:3 thanks everybody!

I'd kinda hafta disagree on that, and agree.  However, a LGBTQ meet-up panel isn't what was originally discussed here; it was HOMOPHOBIA.  (Though that's not a bad idea for a panel, either).


In other news, Maddie Blaustein (voice actor of Meowth and one of the few trans voice actors) died recently T__T http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maddie_Blaustein

 :'(
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Offline xxxchihiroxxx

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #138 on: April 09, 2009, 05:54:07 pm »
still planning to come if this is going on : D i really look forward to it
returning with a vengeance to K con~

Offline nekovamp13

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #139 on: April 13, 2009, 01:39:03 am »
Same here!
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #140 on: July 18, 2009, 05:37:18 pm »
I am still very much interested in running this panel, I was just waiting until I was sure that there was interest... I'll go submit a form right now.

To those of you who question the decision to switch to a "LGBTQ Meet-up Panel" rather than the originally conceived "Con-Homophobia" one, I simply think that the former is too specific. There will definitely be a segment where we talk about our positive/negative experiences at conventions, so please don't let the new name/panel scare you off!

Edit: Form submitted, will update again when I have received a response.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 05:56:02 pm by murder_of_raven »

Offline nekovamp13

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #141 on: July 21, 2009, 01:22:51 am »
I'm excited! What day are you aiming for?
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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #142 on: July 22, 2009, 03:01:27 pm »
I'm actually not aiming for anything other than a before mid-night timeslot which doesn't run into the AMV Contest... I'll let people know when/if they tell me when it's actually going to be!

Offline nekovamp13

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #143 on: July 22, 2009, 05:04:40 pm »
They should tell you when it is, and I hope they will soon.
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Offline Serika

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #144 on: September 03, 2009, 01:02:28 am »
Is this on the schedule?  I didn't see it.
lol peer pressure

Plans:
Kumoricon '11: Catherine (Catherine), Nanami (Revolutionary Girl Utena)
Sakuracon '12: Ryfia (Arc Rise Fantasia), other things

Offline devyrae

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #145 on: September 03, 2009, 01:42:53 am »
Is this going to be this year or next year?

Eaither way id love to come and bring my girlfriend along with me ;D
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Ash -Pokemon
Nick -L4D2

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Offline murder_of_raven

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #146 on: September 03, 2009, 03:51:51 am »
Look harder people!  ;D

Yes it is indeed on the schedule. We're all set for Sunday afternoon in the Workshop room... although I can't remember our specific time off the top of my head. If you know it post it for me, okay? XD

I hope to see you all there! Come with discussion topics if possible!

Offline devyrae

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #147 on: September 03, 2009, 05:27:15 am »
I found it ^^ its at 6pm on Sunday.

Ill probably be able to make it since its way before the masquerade :D
Kumoricon 13 plans:
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Axel -Kingdom Hearts
Ash -Pokemon
Nick -L4D2

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Offline nekovamp13

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #148 on: September 03, 2009, 03:55:56 pm »
Sweet! I will try to come ^^
~Sakuracon/Kumoricon 2014~
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Offline Serika

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Re: Homophobia in Otakudom (09)
« Reply #149 on: September 03, 2009, 05:06:50 pm »
Ah, found it, haha.  I'll be a little late because I'm in the AA, and, um, I'll probably leave halfway through to go to a photoshoot, but I will definitely be there for part of this. 
lol peer pressure

Plans:
Kumoricon '11: Catherine (Catherine), Nanami (Revolutionary Girl Utena)
Sakuracon '12: Ryfia (Arc Rise Fantasia), other things