Furries at K-con?

[MistressLegato]

I have to say, I was really confused and sorta creeped out by the amount of furries this year.  I've been really scared of them since I was a kid, I used to hide from Fred Bear at the grocery store and stuff.

I want to know why there were so many furries?  It is a Japanese culture fest, right?

I don't mean to offend anyone, I really am super confused!

[EveofAbyss]

Well...(and this is just from my uneducated observations) at least a few of the furries were Pokemon characters, so that fits right in under Anime and cosplay. I don't know about the rest though. I really only saw three, I think.

[melchizedek]

The masscot is furry too.

[Teuvan]

The masscot is furry too.

OBJECTION!

Present Evidence -> http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2396/chartuc4.jpg

Know the difference. It could save your life.

Also, as much as "yiff in hell" is practically my catch-phrase, not everyone in a fursuit is part of the most annoying "subculture" ever to exist. I'm actually friends with the girl who was in the Akamaru suit, and she's awesome.

[NeonFoxRocks]

phear the phox tails!... but really i think it makes me look good XP

and i didn't see very many, there wasn't even a booth to get my matching fox ears =(

[Chevi]

The masscot is furry too.

OBJECTION!

Present Evidence -> http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2396/chartuc4.jpg

Know the difference. It could save your life.

Also, as much as "yiff in hell" is practically my catch-phrase, not everyone in a fursuit is part of the most annoying "subculture" ever to exist. I'm actually friends with the girl who was in the Akamaru suit, and she's awesome.

And not everyone in a fursuit is some creepy person associated with the bad part of the furry fandom.  Also seriously, stop saying the mascot is a furry, geezus.  She's got animal ears and a tail, THAT'S IT.  

[XFD]

The ones I saw seemed drastically out of place, not by costume, but by a kind of isolation around them. They seemed to be there "by themselves." I figure they show up because they associate some anime which have anthromorphs as being furry friendly (in the same way a comedic storm trooper in an anime somehow justifies star-wars costumes). Just my observation.

[Kyuubi]

There are furs who are anime fans. It's true in any fandom. There are ties between the two of them as there are anime that have anthropomorphic animals in there. Or humans that change into animals (i.e. Wolf's Rain as an example). And it's true taht most furries would only tend to hang out by themselves or with other furs; that's mainly because of the treatment that they get from other people.

Ones basically saying crude things about them, assuming things about them, and basically being (Parden my language on this) jacka**es to them and making them feel like the scum of the earth. And yes, I've been a victim of this kind of treatment but I don't really let it get to me now; I still am as open as I want to be and I'm happily hugging/glomping/messing with almost anyone and everyone at the convention.

Personally, I'm glad that other furs are coming to this convention as it stems into a much larger fandom than the anime/gaming ones. Some, if not most, furs like being outside. In groups of people that they can have fun with. Granted, not all of them are treated as I've stated above; but there are a good portion of the fandom that is.

*looks up and takes a breath* Well, I've probably spilled more than I wanted to. But I'm a little tired of this. And there are no fingers being pointed at anyone; this is just what I've seen personally and through word of mouth. If you take offense to this post, none is meant by me.

And as a side note: We've already had the argument about the mascot at the end of K'con 07. Now it's just beating a dead horse. It's not a fur. It's a girl with ears and a tail. That does not make it anthropomorphic. It makes it anime.

Sub side note: Yes, I am a furry. And next year, I'm gonna have a good amount of fun. Wait and see~

[Jarnan]

If you're a furry, and by furry i mean the yiff/spray kind, go do it somewhere else. If you just wanna dress up as an animal character (Akamaru, hedgehog person, pokemon, whatever) go for it, you're just cosplaying a different style.

[Neolucky]

Furries are also part of the Japanese otaku-fandom. Do some research. In fact some of the leading 'Furry' and 'Anthro' artists are Japanese, such as Dr. Comet. (Which was who illustrated that Furry% image above, and it's missing about 5-6 more stages). It's called Kemono or something over there.

None of the fursuiter/mascot wearing people caused any issues that I could see. If you find it creepy, just avoid them. That's like anyone saying "Gee, there sure were alot of Sasuke cosplayers around this year...that sure freaked me out!" because Anthros/Furries/Kemono/Nekomomi/Ginjinka have been around in the anime/otaku fandom since ages ago.

And the mascot was indeed NOT a furry. I see no muzzle, no hair on her body, no inverted legs, and no paws or claws. She was as furry as a cat-girl, and that's about as ANIMU as you can get.

[neko_goes_nyaaa]

************ my forum name has "neko" in it... am I a furry?   
I don't hate all ****** kind, just the one's who can't lulz at themselves.
*********** also has types like that... damn humorless lol-cows. =p
Also, ****************** is to Weeabooism as Yiffpr0n is to Furryism.


Edited by Mod for multiple terms that were offensive and/or above the PG-13 rating of this message board.

[Patchwerk]

********** my forum name has "neko" in it... am I a furry?   
I don't hate all ******* kind, just the one's who can't lulz at themselves.
************* also has types like that... damn humorless lol-cows. =p
Also, ******************** is to Weeabooism as Yiffpr0n is to Furryism.

*Psssst*  I think you need to take a break from 4chan. D=

[neko_goes_nyaaa]

Psssssst, I herd u like mudkipz.

And actually I'm a double agent, I just have this sense of huMOAR thing.
There's nothing wrong with being part of a screwed up group of people,
as long as you acknowledge its screwed-upness and don't try to turn it
into SRS BIZNESS. Self-depricating humor = +4 armor against trolling.

[Rathany]

If you're a furry, and by furry i mean the yiff/spray kind, go do it somewhere else. If you just wanna dress up as an animal character (Akamaru, hedgehog person, pokemon, whatever) go for it, you're just cosplaying a different style.

As long as they aren't yiffing in the main lobby, it's really none of your bussiness.  Can we please have a little tolerence?  

[Neolucky]

Psssssst, I herd u like mudkipz.

And actually I'm a double agent, I just have this sense of huMOAR thing.
There's nothing wrong with being part of a screwed up group of people,
as long as you acknowledge its screwed-upness and don't try to turn it
into SRS BIZNESS. Self-depricating humor = +4 armor against trolling.

*sings* Secret... AAAGENT NYAAA...Secret...AAAGEENT NYAAAA!

And agreed. Tolerance please. Every fandom has it's oddities and Anime? Is certainly one that has plenty. No need to knock people's hobbies here.

[Patchwerk]

Psssssst, I herd u like mudkipz.

PERHAPS.
(Oh-hoho... sry Neo. XD )

P.S.
In other news, I don't have a problem with furries.  I find them amusing.  Also, I like drawing anthro-ish art.  Though I will admit that when things get out of hand and delve into the sexual nature of furries, I get a little creeped out, but that's 'cause it's just not my thing... The same really goes for any other fetish I don't dig!  As long as people don't shove their likes down my throat, I don't really care.

So, yeah!  Furries are A-OK at a con with me.

[neko_goes_nyaaa]

I wasn't bashing them, I have plenty of friends who are furries,
we pass ED articles to each other and laugh and everything's fine.

The cool ones are the kind who can actually take a joke and appreciate lulz.
And 70% of people on 4chan/Lulz.net/Wtfцx are either furries or ex-furries.
It isn't all just "zomg internet haet musheenz" and "exploding yellow v&."

Lulz ≠ violence. Plz 2 be lernin' how 2 taek joekz nao.

[Neolucky]

I wasn't bashing them, I have plenty of friends who are furries,
we pass ED articles to each other and laugh and everything's fine.

The cool ones are the kind who can actually take a joke and appreciate lulz.
And 70% of people on 4chan/Lulz.net/Wtfцx are either furries or ex-furries.
It isn't all just "zomg internet haet musheenz" and "exploding yellow v&."

Lulz ≠ violence. Plz 2 be lernin' how 2 taek joekz nao.

Haha no one said you were bashing them.

[Nayamashii Koneko]

If you're a furry, and by furry i mean the yiff/spray kind, go do it somewhere else.

I agree with Dawn, tolerance please.

I may not enjoy that fandom but I will step up to protect my brother if need be. Even though he is 6'5 and can take care of himself now....

[RemSaverem]

I don't know the word yiff?

There are so many ways that people dress in cosplay (let alone crossplay) that could be considered someone's fetish somewhere (schoolgirl outfits much?), I don't think that that should automatically rule out someone who is wearing them for other reasons being comfortable to do so.

There are people who come in HP (Harry Potter) cosplay and I love it, it's not anime but it's a huge fandom. At Creation Station we've always opened our fanfic contest to fics from sources other than anime and manga per se. A lot of them are from, e.g., the Final Fantasy game series. Sometimes we've had HP; and yes this year even a Metroid (game) x Star Wars crossover!

If folks can come in HP and that's acceptable, I see no reason why Star Wars wouldn't be, especially since one of the larger and better-loved of our panels is I'd Just As Soon Kiss A Wookie! Star Wars panel!

Personally I staffed Anime Evolution one year as a dolphin from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Wearing a sign that said "So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish." Not everyone got it. But those who did gave homage

And I made the costume out of plushie halloween costumes sold for 4 year olds....A couple of those sewed together. It was actually really comfy, and warm.

So I'm not clear, if dressing as an animal (albeit as a character in a sci fi) would be considered being a furry?
Or if the material the costume is made out of makes the difference?

I'm not clear what everyone has as definitions of furries and anthromorphs, or why there is such disdain thereof?

I've seen people come as Sonic the Hedgehog, I don't see anything wrong with such?

Many people came to talk about how to move art from anime to anthro, with one of our staff.

I beta'd a piece for an academic journal that was on werewolves and other shapeshifters in anime and manga, and it profiled their precursors and inspirations in Japanese and Ainu (indigenous people of Japan) culture and mythology. If someone dressed as someone from Wolf's Rain would they be furry and anthro at the same time?

Please help me understand this. Generally I don't like biases in any form. It seems odd that there would be biases BETWEEN FANDOMS.

[Deviant Spider]

personally I admire the amount of talent it makes to create a furry costume. Some of them even had LEDs and awesome effects. I saw no innaporopriate behavior so I must say that if you had a problem with the furries than YOU created it. And doing so you are close minded.

[EveofAbyss]

It's a stigmatized subgenre of cosplay, just like everything else that seems to be of debate and discussion lately. When someone thinks of a furry, there are certain actions and trends that (generally) come to mind. Furries are (again, to a lot of people) associated with acts that "mainstream society" would see as perverted or weird. So, even though not all people in fur-costumes fall under this generalization, that won't stop a lot of people from seeing a fur costume and immediately placing those ideas on said person/costume.

At least from my experience, I didn't see anything furry related this year that would fall under the previous description ("yiffing" for example), but I only saw three or so fur costumes the whole weekend, so I may be somewhat underexposed.

[MistressLegato]

I'm just voicing my opinion.  I am not saying "OMG BAN THE FURRIES!" I was really wondering why they were there because it really says nothing about Japanese culture to me whatsoever.

Yes, there were many Pokemanz and that makes sense.  Wolf's Rain, makes sense.

Random fursuit confuses me, as does Harry Potter. It's just my *opinion* that there are cons for these things, too, so I wondered where the crossover happened.

[FizzTheCarbonated]

I suppose part of the issue is the definition of furry.  To me, a furry is someone who dresses up like an animal for personal enjoyment/fetish reasons and not because it's a cool costume or a character they like.  If someone self-identifies to me as a furry, I'm going to assume there's a sexual aspect to it, because that's the impression I've gotten about the subculture and about the way the term is normally used.  If you just like anthro art, you're not a furry.

It's the difference between crossdressing and transvestitism.  Crossdressers dress like the opposite sex because they enjoy it.  Transvestites do it because they get a sexual thrill from it.  I don't care if someone enjoys transvestitism--that's cool with me.  However, I prefer not to be around people who are getting their rocks off in whatever way they get them.  If I wanted to be around a bunch of people pursuing sexual thrills, there are parties I can go to for that.  It's not what I go to con for, though.

To me, "furry" carries the sexual fetish aspect with it.  If someone is a furry but it's not a fetish for them, maybe there needs to be a different word for the non-fetish furries.  I don't care about other people's fetishes, but I prefer not to be surrounded by them at con.*  Enjoy (general) your fetishes, by all means!  Just don't involve me in them/expose me to them without my prior knowledge or consent.

*Unless it's like, Fetish-Con or something.  Which would probably be a scary, scary place.

[MistressLegato]

I suppose part of the issue is the definition of furry.  To me, a furry is someone who dresses up like an animal for personal enjoyment/fetish reasons and not because it's a cool costume or a character they like.  If someone self-identifies to me as a furry, I'm going to assume there's a sexual aspect to it, because that's the impression I've gotten about the subculture and about the way the term is normally used.  If you just like anthro art, you're not a furry.

It's the difference between crossdressing and transvestitism.  Crossdressers dress like the opposite sex because they enjoy it.  Transvestites do it because they get a sexual thrill from it.  I don't care if someone enjoys transvestitism--that's cool with me.  However, I prefer not to be around people who are getting their rocks off in whatever way they get them.  If I wanted to be around a bunch of people pursuing sexual thrills, there are parties I can go to for that.  It's not what I go to con for, though.

To me, "furry" carries the sexual fetish aspect with it.  If someone is a furry but it's not a fetish for them, maybe there needs to be a different word for the non-fetish furries.  I don't care about other people's fetishes, but I prefer not to be surrounded by them at con.*  Enjoy (general) your fetishes, by all means!  Just don't involve me in them/expose me to them without my prior knowledge or consent.

*Unless it's like, Fetish-Con or something.  Which would probably be a scary, scary place.

See, I thought it was just me that thought furry was related to a sexual fetishy thing and that's part of the reason it bothers me.  Pedobear is banned for his OBVIOUS not matching with the PG13-ness of the con, right?

So furry related to sexual connotations also seems a bit out of the whole PG13 nature. 

If there are those who do it and it's not part of a sex fetish, then I agree!  We totally need a new sort of term.

[shademalek]

I suppose part of the issue is the definition of furry.  To me, a furry is someone who dresses up like an animal for personal enjoyment/fetish reasons and not because it's a cool costume or a character they like.  If someone self-identifies to me as a furry, I'm going to assume there's a sexual aspect to it, because that's the impression I've gotten about the subculture and about the way the term is normally used.  If you just like anthro art, you're not a furry.

It's the difference between crossdressing and transvestitism.  Crossdressers dress like the opposite sex because they enjoy it.  Transvestites do it because they get a sexual thrill from it.  I don't care if someone enjoys transvestitism--that's cool with me.  However, I prefer not to be around people who are getting their rocks off in whatever way they get them.  If I wanted to be around a bunch of people pursuing sexual thrills, there are parties I can go to for that.  It's not what I go to con for, though.

To me, "furry" carries the sexual fetish aspect with it.  If someone is a furry but it's not a fetish for them, maybe there needs to be a different word for the non-fetish furries.  I don't care about other people's fetishes, but I prefer not to be surrounded by them at con.*  Enjoy (general) your fetishes, by all means!  Just don't involve me in them/expose me to them without my prior knowledge or consent.

*Unless it's like, Fetish-Con or something.  Which would probably be a scary, scary place.

That is kind of a slippery slope there. Some people get off on the anime/game they cosplay, or certain anime-related outfits (schoolgirl). I don't want to give you the sveevies, but really, you never know what people are getting their rocks off on. As long as they aren't actively displaying that activity in public, I don't see an issue. I get the creeps about some parts of fandom, but I genneraly keep that bias to the people I am friends with and avoid being openly hostile/upset.

[FizzTheCarbonated]

That is kind of a slippery slope there. Some people get off on the anime/game they cosplay, or certain anime-related outfits (schoolgirl). I don't want to give you the sveevies, but really, you never know what people are getting their rocks off on. As long as they aren't actively displaying that activity in public, I don't see an issue. I get the creeps about some parts of fandom, but I genneraly keep that bias to the people I am friends with and avoid being openly hostile/upset.

Well, it's not like I'm rude to people in fursuits or anything.  I just think it's generally polite to keep one's fetishes in private.  And I'm not saying, "Keep it a secret!  Be ashamed of it!"  I'm just saying if I'm wearing sandals outside, I don't need the dude down the street to tell me about his foot fetish.  He can be a proud, out foot fetishist if he wants, but strangers don't need to know about it.  I don't tell complete strangers about what I enjoy doing in private, so I don't really need to know about what they enjoy doing.

There are places to let one's fetish freak flag fly, but I don't think a PG-13 anime convention is really one of them.

[XFD]

That is kind of a slippery slope there. Some people get off on the anime/game they cosplay, or certain anime-related outfits (schoolgirl). I don't want to give you the sveevies, but really, you never know what people are getting their rocks off on. As long as they aren't actively displaying that activity in public, I don't see an issue. I get the creeps about some parts of fandom, but I genneraly keep that bias to the people I am friends with and avoid being openly hostile/upset.

Description of Slippery Slope

The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:

Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.

Examples of Slippery Slope

"We have to stop the tuition increase! The next thing you know, they'll be charging $40,000 a semester!"
"You can never give anyone a break. If you do, they'll walk all over you."
"We've got to stop them from banning pornography. Once they start banning one form of literature, they will never stop. Next thing you know, they will be burning all the books!"

How is the Fizz's argument a slippery slope?

Fizz's point is:

The furry concept is derived from sexual nature first. If there are people who dig fursuits because of the skill or whatever that isn't sexualized or sexually influenced, then fine. It's the ones which are gounded in a sexualized manner which are the problem, and the term furry (which is often synonymous with 'yiff') is linked to this category closely.

If all anime started out as Urutsukidoji or similar, would you necessarily think of all other anime as being subversely sexual in nature?

I don't agree with "slippery slope" in this case. It would be the same as arguing that a girl which dresses in a skimpy edition of a joshikousei seifuku is asking to get ra**d. Never mind the positive aspects of the character.

Edit:
Also: Rule 34.

[shademalek]

That is kind of a slippery slope there. Some people get off on the anime/game they cosplay, or certain anime-related outfits (schoolgirl). I don't want to give you the sveevies, but really, you never know what people are getting their rocks off on. As long as they aren't actively displaying that activity in public, I don't see an issue. I get the creeps about some parts of fandom, but I genneraly keep that bias to the people I am friends with and avoid being openly hostile/upset.

Well, it's not like I'm rude to people in fursuits or anything.  I just think it's generally polite to keep one's fetishes in private.  And I'm not saying, "Keep it a secret!  Be ashamed of it!"  I'm just saying if I'm wearing sandals outside, I don't need the dude down the street to tell me about his foot fetish.  He can be a proud, out foot fetishist if he wants, but strangers don't need to know about it.  I don't tell complete strangers about what I enjoy doing in private, so I don't really need to know about what they enjoy doing.

There are places to let one's fetish freak flag fly, but I don't think a PG-13 anime convention is really one of them.

That begs the question that just because someone is wearing the type of items in that fandom, they are not going around shouting that it's fetishwear. It is not just to start the bannings based on an assumption. I don't like this line of logic due to the fact that I wear a spiked collar/chain leash, etc... goth/industrial gear that could be construed as part of a fetish.

[shademalek]

That is kind of a slippery slope there. Some people get off on the anime/game they cosplay, or certain anime-related outfits (schoolgirl). I don't want to give you the sveevies, but really, you never know what people are getting their rocks off on. As long as they aren't actively displaying that activity in public, I don't see an issue. I get the creeps about some parts of fandom, but I genneraly keep that bias to the people I am friends with and avoid being openly hostile/upset.

Description of Slippery Slope

The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:

Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because there is no reason to believe that one event must inevitably follow from another without an argument for such a claim. This is especially clear in cases in which there is a significant number of steps or gradations between one event and another.

Examples of Slippery Slope

"We have to stop the tuition increase! The next thing you know, they'll be charging $40,000 a semester!"
"You can never give anyone a break. If you do, they'll walk all over you."
"We've got to stop them from banning pornography. Once they start banning one form of literature, they will never stop. Next thing you know, they will be burning all the books!"

How is the Fizz's argument a slippery slope?

Fizz's point is:

The furry concept is derived from sexual nature first. If there are people who dig fursuits because of the skill or whatever that isn't sexualized or sexually influenced, then fine. It's the ones which are gounded in a sexualized manner which are the problem, and the term furry (which is often synonymous with 'yiff') is linked to this category closely.

If all anime started out as Urutsukidoji or similar, would you necessarily think of all other anime as being subversely sexual in nature?

I don't agree with "slippery slope" in this case. It would be the same as arguing that a girl which dresses in a skimpy edition of a joshikousei seifuku is asking to get ra**d. Never mind the positive aspects of the character.

Edit:
Also: Rule 34.

I'm saying that to ban or be prejudiced against one type of fandom/clothing style that could be construed in a certain way would lead the way tword more items/costumes/articles getting banned. I may not like a certain fandom, but I'll defend their right to it because what's to say my particular fandom isn't next on the list of offensive items? I just think we need to be more accepting.

[FizzTheCarbonated]

That begs the question that just because someone is wearing the type of items in that fandom, they are not going around shouting that it's fetishwear. It is not just to start the bannings based on an assumption. I don't like this line of logic due to the fact that I wear a spiked collar/chain leash, etc... goth/industrial gear that could be construed as part of a fetish.

But leashes and collars are commonly used as fetishgear.  I know that they're not always used as fetishgear, but you honestly can't blame Joe Middleclass on the street for assuming that someone who is wearing fetishgear is part of a fetish.  And like it or not, we do share con space with Joe Middleclass, and because of that we have to walk a careful line.

I'm not advocating banning anything, either.  Perhaps you can show me where I did advocate that?  People in fursuits really don't bother me (as long as they're not, you know, actually bothering me).  However, just generally speaking, I would prefer it if people would keep their fetishes to themselves if they don't know whether or not the people around them are cool with it.  I have no authority to enforce this.  I have no plans to enforce this.  I don't even want to enforce this.  I just think it's good taste.

(In the interests of full disclosure, I don't think I saw any fursuits this con.  I did see some anime mascot suits, but nothing that struck me as a fursuit.  Had I seen one, I probably would have shrugged and moved on, much like I did at Norwescon.)

[NeonFoxRocks]

yeah i don't see what the big deal was i saw akamaru and people with tails and ears that i guess has been deemed 'un-furry' by the thread. I don't see what the big deal is you don't have to be where they are, they aren't going to follow you, and they aren't doing lewd acts or even suggesting that they do... untill then i don't see any problem with it

[XFD]

I'm saying that to ban or be prejudiced against one type of fandom/clothing style that could be construed in a certain way would lead the way tword more items/costumes/articles getting banned. I may not like a certain fandom, but I'll defend their right to it because what's to say my particular fandom isn't next on the list of offensive items? I just think we need to be more accepting.

There is actually a thread going on which is discussing this very issue and may result in well defined rules regarding what is and is not considered sexual and consequently prohibited. The other catch is that since it's a private event, they can regulate things as they see fit.

[Chevi]

If someone wants to come dressed in a fursuit, an HP uniform, a Legolas costume, or Darth Vader, more power to them!  Sure there are other cons for those types of costumes, but really, I don't see a problem with it.  Maybe they would like to wear their costumes at other conventions simply for the reason to dress up again, wear the costume again, etc.  Who are we to say that it belongs at another convention.  Conventions, anime or otherwise, are like Halloween, so Homer Simpson or someone dressed as Buddy Jesus, I don't think it really matters.  

Also, it seems hypocritical to me to single out the fursuiter as someone who "needs to keep his fetish away from me" when you don't know ANYONE at the con, they could all have some sort of fetish you don't agree with.  Why single out the one person in a fursuit as the person who needs to back off?  It's just silly to say that about them when it should be said of any person who's a stranger at the convention.

[shademalek]

I just think that as Dawn stated earlier in the thread, we need to have more tolerance. Joe Middleclass is going to be scared and weirded out by most things at a con. Fandom can be intimidating to the average bystander.

[FizzTheCarbonated]

Also, it seems hypocritical to me to single out the fursuiter as someone who "needs to keep his fetish away from me" when you don't know ANYONE at the con, they could all have some sort of fetish you don't agree with.  Why single out the one person in a fursuit as the person who needs to back off?  It's just silly to say that about them when it should be said of any person who's a stranger at the convention.

Fursuiters get singled out because they're obvious.  (Much like emo kids, actually.)  It's not fair, but that's probably a big part of the reason.  I tolerate everyone at con because it's the right thing to do, but I'd prefer it if people kept their fetishes at home.  However, I'd also prefer that people not drink coffee in con space because I can't stand the smell, I'd prefer it if they stopped yelling "MARCO!"  "POLO!" any time the lights turn off for more than three seconds during cosplay, I'd prefer the dances to not be smelly, and I'd prefer that catgirls be less high-pitched.  However, these are all things I tolerate because they're part of con.*  If they disappeared by next con, I wouldn't cry, but I am by NO means advocating any sort of ban.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to my porch and my old-school cosplays so I can yell at the Naruto cosplayers to get off my lawn.  *grumblegrumblekidsthesedaysgrumble*

*And honestly, fursuiters and other fetishists are LESS annoying than everything else I mentioned.  They're barely on the "list," down there at the bottom with "people wearing sneakers with their costume" and "dealer's room tables not nicely organized."

[EveofAbyss]

I think the reason the furry/fursuiter is easier to address is because, as earlier mentioned, the fetish is so superficially tied to the costume. True, there are people with fetishes for schoolgirls and anything you can think of, but the furry garners much more immediate fetish connotations and activities than any other costume, in my opinion.

But that's just the way it seems to me.

What it comes down to, essentially, is that the con being a public and PG-13 forum, furries are a delicate issue because of the fetishes that can be and most of the time are associated with them. It's the same reason yaoi and yuri paddles had to be banned and yaoi/yuri themselves had to be monitored by the con. When you get enough enthusiasts together, it becomes more than just a costume. (See yaoi/yuri parties: paddling and solicitation of yaoi/yuri actions that are very much not PG-13. It's the same concept. Get too many furry fetishists together and there is the possibility for "yiffing" solicitiation, you know?)

[shademalek]

I think the reason the furry/fursuiter is easier to address is because, as earlier mentioned, the fetish is so superficially tied to the costume. True, there are people with fetishes for schoolgirls and anything you can think of, but the furry garners much more immediate fetish connotations and activities than any other costume, in my opinion.

But that's just the way it seems to me.

What it comes down to, essentially, is that the con being a public and PG-13 forum, furries are a delicate issue because of the fetishes that can be and most of the time are associated with them. It's the same reason yaoi and yuri paddles had to be banned and yaoi/yuri themselves had to be monitored by the con. When you get enough enthusiasts together, it becomes more than just a costume. (See yaoi/yuri parties: paddling and solicitation of yaoi/yuri actions that are very much not PG-13. It's the same concept. Get too many furry fetishists together and there is the possibility for "yiffing" solicitiation, you know?)

Exactly! And if that is going on in public con space, that should not be alowed, just like any other non permissable activity (drawing a weapon, paddling, solicitation). As long as they aren't yiffing in the lobby, they should be left to enjoy the con like the rest of us. That is against policy.

[acton]

The masscot is furry too.

OBJECTION!

Present Evidence -> http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2396/chartuc4.jpg

Know the difference. It could save your life.

Also, as much as "yiff in hell" is practically my catch-phrase, not everyone in a fursuit is part of the most annoying "subculture" ever to exist. I'm actually friends with the girl who was in the Akamaru suit, and she's awesome.

Hearsay
Overruled

[acton]

First I tired quickly of sweeping generalizations of furry fandom. It obvious
There is very little knowledge what a furry is except for logical fallacies and hearsay of others.  A furry is a fan of anthropomorphism, no more no less. To associate all fursuts as sexual fetish is thing more that blatant sweeping generalization.  I been to two furry cons and Kumoricon is my first Anime con. I have to say I seen more tail and ears at Kumoricon than any furry con. As for costuming, I say the ratio of costumed attendees (Cosplay/ Fursuiting) is much higher at Kumoricon than any furcon. I did my own count while bored; I say the ratio approached 3:1   (cosplayer : attendee) to a fury con where the ratio is never goes above 3:10 (fursuiters and including accessories: attendee). Furthermore, I could add the number of attendees carrying plushies of once sort or another. For the level of sexual fetish publicly displayed, I say zero at both or I would been running out of con hotel. As well being an Anime fan, a Furry I am Christian that has very little tolerance of immorality displayed.  Finally seems racy cosplay, and Henti is not a problem but a fusuit that can worn at a children’s party is  major problem and speaks of ones ignorance and hypocrisy.

[Mecha Mecha Media]

I am learning a lot from this thread...very interesting things I never knew about before.

I have a question, and if it was addressed, I apologize in advance.

What is the difference in the fetish roots between furries and maids or nurses. There was nothing sexually explicit about the furry costumes I have seen, but some of the maids and nurses could be considered sexy (short skirts, fishnets, cleavage). And we all know that maids and nurses are serious fetishes in Japan. I am just curious why some are critical of furries at a PG-13 Con, but sexy maids and nurses are not criticized.

[Serika]

I am learning a lot from this thread...very interesting things I never knew about before.

I have a question, and if it was addressed, I apologize in advance.

What is the difference in the fetish roots between furries and maids or nurses. There was nothing sexually explicit about the furry costumes I have seen, but some of the maids and nurses could be considered sexy (short skirts, fishnets, cleavage). And we all know that maids and nurses are serious fetishes in Japan. I am just curious why some are critical of furries at a PG-13 Con, but sexy maids and nurses are not criticized.

AGREE AGREE AGREE. 

I guess if you want a completely serious answer... It's usually a "normal person" x maid or "normal person" x nurse... However, furries are furry x furry, stereo/typically. 

I think before this summer, my furphobia was pretty up there, since my only exposure to furries was hentai on the internet and...this...weird yiff comic thing I found.  I had to attatch a fur collar to one of my costumes, and DEAR GOD, CUTTING FUR IS HARD.  Most furries (to my knowlege) make their own.  And so that's sewing, gluing, shaping (and not to mention cutting that godforsaken STUFF) right there.  Many of the cosplayers just buy their outfits on ebay or wherever.  Furries are going to a lot more effort to get enjoyment out of the con (in my opinion) than some of those cosplayers.  If the furries are being nice, kind people who make small-talk at the most while waiting in line(like the one I ran into), and the ebay otaku are screaming "I'LL PAY FOR SOME SEXY YAOI! *pelvic thrust, pelvic thrust*," which one is going to bother you more?  Who's the more immature, creepier one?  And the examples I gave both happened.  I changed the otaku one a little because no one likes f-bombs! 8D;;;

As for the fetish thing, and this is not targetted at anyone in particular, I'm sure 90% of the congoers have some weird fetishes themselves.  I do too.  I'm not going around wearing such-and-such fetish item, but I imagine I would have a very, um, silly reaction if I did see anyone wearing said such-and-such fetish items. (And even then, such-and-such item isn't even generally considered sexual, so you know.  I'd be way more disturbing to the confolk than the nice furries who don't have a sexual fetish but wish to express themselves...and sorry for these run-on sentences that go nowhere.)

I don't know.  TALK to a furry before immediately judging them.  This is SOOOOO harsh, I know, but really.  Otaku, you are considered very, very weird by normal society.  Before you say, "OMG THAT FURRY OVER THERE WAY ACROSS THE HALLWAY?  SO WEIRD.  omg." take one quick look at the stereotypes of YOUR fandom.  (and I mean anime in general, just as I mean furries in general.  There are plenty of branches off all of those, and both groups are judged for the weird ones...)

[Kyuubi]

I don't know.  TALK to a furry before immediately judging them.  This is SOOOOO harsh, I know, but really.  Otaku, you are considered very, very weird by normal society.  Before you say, "OMG THAT FURRY OVER THERE WAY ACROSS THE HALLWAY?  SO WEIRD.  omg." take one quick look at the stereotypes of YOUR fandom.  (and I mean anime in general, just as I mean furries in general.  There are plenty of branches off all of those, and both groups are judged for the weird ones...)

*looks up* You win an internet. Nuff said.

[AnimeMatrix]

I didn't see a whole lot of furries- I saw about the same amount of people with animal related stuff as every year (and about every con I've been to).

And about the 2008 mascot- no she's not a furry- I thought she was really cute. The only thing that bothered me about her was the grass-skirt... thing.

[gia]

Can't believe no one's posted this yet...warning: this, of course, is a slightly censored copy I made to stay within forum rules; the original is here and PG-13 for language.

[superjaz]

i always thought it was ironic that the csi episode with furrys was o tv the week of the first k-con

[reppy]

OK, so here's the reason that people are more "grossed out" by furry fetishes as opposed to say, maid or school girl fetishes.  Ready?  It's because furry fetishes are awfully close to bestiality.  Yes, it's consenting adults and they're free to do as they please; however, it is impossible to ignore that aspect.

I am by no means an expert on furries/furdom; I do know that I appreciate some of the (non-sexual) furry art I've seen.  Some of it has been incredibly cute.  I've probably even saved a few of them onto my hard drive.  But as soon as the image turns from 2 puppies snuggling into something a little more serious, I draw the line.

Also, I did see a few people at Kumoricon wearing "yiff me" t-shirts.  I don't know if it was meant to be ironic or what, but I know what "yiff" means and I'm sure many other con-goers do as well.  If furries are sexually arousing for you, that's your business, but it's not something I'm fond of or want to be reminded of.  (Honestly, this doesn't just go for furries.  I really am not a fan of any sorts of public displays of affection besides some holding and hugs.  A peck?  Fine.  Anything beyond that, and my insides recoil.  Even if it was the 2 hottest girls in the world kissing.  So you can imagine when I see someone wearing a shirt that promotes "yiffing.")

Someone dressing up as a furry, I have no problem with that.  I am in no position to judge.  After all, am I any better as a guy dressing up like a girl (technically a girl robot, or persocom ^_^;)?  I don't think so.  That said, crossplaying at an anime convention seems to be over all accepted and carries almost no sexual implications with it.  For whatever reason on the Internet, the only aspect of fur fandom you see is the sexual side.  People get exposed to that and are predisposed to casting judgment.  It's unfortunate but it happens.

[XFD]

In similar vein, my first attendance to Kumoricon in 2004 was greeted with a guy with ears and tail who had a sign posted on his back. It read, "Yiff," and had a drawn arrow pointed to his ass. That's a pretty solid image in my mind of "furry."

[Rathany]

In similar vein, my first attendance to Kumoricon in 2004 was greeted with a guy with ears and tail who had a sign posted on his back. It read, "Yiff," and had a drawn arrow pointed to his ass. That's a pretty solid image in my mind of "furry."

That person was breaking our rules.  Sadly, it happens.  I had to take an 'uke' sign off the back of a red badge last year.  *shudders*

[Evaldas]

When I first attended Kumoricon, there was a lot of stuff that weirded me out. Now, there isn't much that phases me anymore. I stood in line for a while with a friend for the Dark Knight opening and there was some pretty bad "cosplay" and you know what, I never took a second look. Shrugged my shoulders and felt like I was back in line a the convention. ><

As for "furries", people will dress up in weird stuff. Some of us feel safer more confident behind masks...and some people hide behind costumes to deceive or achieve some sort of fantasy. I have never been a fan of the furry stuff, never been big into cosplay either. But as long as everyone plays by the rules, doesn't attempt to do anything illegal or intending to cause someone harm...I really don't care.

As for the CSI episode, I think it went with the rest of the theme of that series, "what happens in Vegas, better stay in Vegas."

In the end, it's all the same. No pun intended.