Author Topic: Re-arming America? ("Americans who 'cling' to guns, etc...")  (Read 1918 times)

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Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re-arming America? ("Americans who 'cling' to guns, etc...")
« on: January 25, 2009, 05:43:29 pm »
[LONG TEXT.] Unbelievable day today.
Interesting news following the November election, to present:

In a 48hr period following the outcome on Nov 4,
one particular gun store in Portland claimed to have sold TWO PALLETS of .223 ammunition.

I get an e-mail a few weeks after that from a collector in TX saying that AR-15 receivers are going to top $1500 ea and he has stocked up on three.

The Dec. 19-21 Expo show was crowded but the snow seemed to dampen the turnout; I had thought that this was gonna be the "Last Chance Before Obama" rush. Prices had gone up but were not frenetic. I ask one of the larger local ammunition dealers about the .223 and he said *they* had moved *five* pallets since the election.

What I hear was selling hot was reloading machinery. These are the last ditch, go-underground machines that would be the most difficult to track and register, and also allow people to make their own 'surprise' loads and bullets even when sales might be banned or overly taxed. Connecticut has already banned .50cal armor piercing ammo. I bet there are people in CT who can make THEIR OWN.

About two weeks ago, news pops out about HR-45:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show
http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2009/01/13/hr-45/
http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2009/01/13/the-cards-are-being-dealt/
http://dustinsgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/hr-45-national-firearms-licensing.html

"Dustin" above, wonders if the US Constitution's FIFTH amendment - the right to remain silent - can be used to not have to declare what you have.

About one week ago, two things:
a. I drop off my wife at a fabric store (Cosplay!) and go up the road to a handgun store. They seem low on inventory. One woman, blonde, talking up at the counter, has decided to buy her first gun, tells the counter folks she has no clue what to look for or how they work. But  "it's  time,"  I overhear from a distance. Hope she selected something in a caliber that begins with the number "4" ...

b. I see a report that ATF is running SO low on Form 4473 (firearms transaction record, over-the counter) that they are letting dealers PHOTOCOPY them.
Ummm, the government runs OUT of paperwork !?!

Today, I went to the Expo show this weekend:

a. ... with friends of a friend - a married couple who never owned guns but *now* feel a more immediate need to pick something up soon. One of them is from Eastern Europe, and had lived through REAL communism - "We know what is coming next!" They buy a .40cal semiautomatic pistol. New HK pistols and SIGs are in the $850 - $950 range. I never thought I would see a thousand dollar handgun** but looks like we're getting there soon.

( ** Not counting historical collectibles, like 'This is President Dwight Eisenhower's personal Colt .45 auto from his time in the Service.")

b. The show is really crowded and frenetic. I see two Obama "Not My President!" t-shirts walking around. Lots of ammo is being sold in large sealed tin cans - one seller is explaining that the cans can be buried underground or stored underwater for years. It's Soviet manufacture. Other hawkers are selling various seal-it/bury-it plastic containers.

c. Some AR-15 receivers are for sale at around TWO THOUSAND dollars...

d. Pistol ammo prices are nearly DOUBLE what it was in December. I snap up two boxes of .40cal pre-fragmented hollow point. (That's my own choice for defense ammo,  I usually keep two boxes around, but I shoot them every few years so I can buy fresh.) Our friends want to do the same - but no they said those were the LAST two boxes. NOW I'm beginning to wonder: wait - who ever heard of running OUT of ammunition at a GUN SHOW, fer kreiss-sakes?!?

e. We bump into friends from the next town over from us (out in Columbia county.) They are each looking to buy and have brought another relative who is buying his first gun. That's three more sales right there.

f. After the show, we take our friends to GI Joe's to pick up cleaning supplies and other accessories. The store is *out* of shooting glasses. I look on the shelves and all pistol ammo between .32 auto (woefully underpowered pea-shooter) and .454 Casull (total hand-cannon, also what Hellsing shoots) is GONE. Bare shelves. "When do you *ever* see bare shelves in a store except under socialism!" I joked with our Eastern-bloc escapees. They agree. At the counter one customer is explaining how certain rifle cartridges can be modified to accept pistol primers. The customer is buying a reloading press and accessories, and will have to wait for the order to arrive. He mentions he has 4,000 primers socked away in sealed containers. The guy behind the counter says he himself has stored away around 10,000. (!)

---------

So, yikes: *WHAT* is going *ON* folks!?!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 05:53:27 pm by Prinz Eugen »

Offline MiriaRose

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Re: Re-arming America? ("Americans who 'cling' to guns, etc...")
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2009, 06:27:25 pm »
They're afraid Obama's gonna make it harder to buy guns, so they're buying them while they can.

I've seen a few news articles about it.
"Would you kindly. ."

Offline jaybug

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Re: Re-arming America? ("Americans who 'cling' to guns, etc...")
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2009, 08:38:02 pm »
I bet my the last place I worked for isn't having any ammo sales to employees right now. I'm sure Federal and Spears are doing some serious overtime, and the other companies sistered with my old company.

I'm glad I know A.N.F.O. and CSKNO3 or is it 2? Not like it says which on the container.

ON the bright side Gov. Patterson's choice to replace Hilary has a 100% rating from the NRA.

Speaking of NRA, I just got my Life Member materials from them.

Why 40 cal? Why not .357 magnum, or .45? I thought those two had better stopping power.

Oh, and for those who are not familiar with AR-15s, please tell them what you mean by receiver. If I started saying clip, they may think about the thing you hang it up by. lol Or who knows, they may be thinking phones, satellite receivers, FM tuners, dunno. For a 2 bit part, 2gs. Wow!

Ya know, the recession is about as scary. Crime is up already. And they aren't doing much prosecuting down here in Lane county. And that was before the Federal Timber receipts dried up. Now? oops. Maybe they'll have to start the prisoners on the Sheriff Joe diet, bologna sandwiches.
Have Fun

Jay

Offline Prinz Eugen

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Re: Re-arming America? ("Americans who 'cling' to guns, etc...")
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2009, 04:05:51 am »
Quote from: jaybug
I'm glad I know A.N.F.O. and CSKNO3 or is it 2? Not like it says which on the container.
Three, if I'm thinking of the same thing
:-D

Quote from: jaybug
Why 40 cal? Why not .357 magnum, or .45? I thought those two had better stopping power.
They both (and I, too) seem to have smaller hands and shorter fingers. Some of these side-stack .40s such as the Glock 22 have 15rd mags. For me, 45s that fit my hand the same hold 7 or 8rds as a 12rd .40.

I had a .45 or two for a while myself. (OK, one was a brick-on-a-stick MAC-10 SMG.) LEOs started moving away from .45 and into .40cal or even 9mm, which I think is decent by barely adequate. The move from .45 to .40 in the US is mostly (a) you get one or more extra rounds per handgun, and (b) I've also heard that for LEOs one line of prosecution (from which they must defend themselves for having had to perforate a dirtbag) is that .45 gives the bad-guy laywer an 'opening' to whine before a jury (60% of whom are clueless about handguns) that your choice of weapon represents 'excessive, unnecessary force.'

Surprisingly, the old 'Dirty Harry' movie pretty much killed .44mag for carry duty on the 'good guy' side. Cops had to go through the same bee-ess in the '70s with hollow points (they were called 'dum-dum bullets' by the newspapers.)  More recently, cops were also 'bad' when they shot 'Black Talon' bullets, so the company renamed that product line to something like 'Gold Tips.'**

**(Your Honor, I'm gonna bash this guy's head in with a ball-bat, but let me rename it a 'plushie' first, OK?)

Watch the press when Israel hands Hamas a well-deserved drubbing: we now live in a world where if you trounce your enemy soundly, you're not being 'fair,' boo-hoo. (Don't get me going on this; I know one LEO in [...] who said "If I hafta fight for my LIFE, [hell-yeah] I want UN-fair odds - in MY favor. I *want* the fight to be as lopsided as me clubbing baby seals.")

Quote
Oh, and for those who are not familiar with AR-15s, please tell them what you mean by receiver. [...] For a 2 bit part, 2gs. Wow!
AFAIK, they mean the part with the serial number on it for your Form 4473; the part you screw the barrel into. I still have a pair of AR-16s but they are indeed stereo speakers.

Offline TomtheFanboy

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Re: Re-arming America? ("Americans who 'cling' to guns, etc...")
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2009, 07:59:22 am »
Well at least one part of the economy is bouncing back!
Tom the Fanboy
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Offline Sporty_Otaku

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Re: Re-arming America? ("Americans who 'cling' to guns, etc...")
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 08:16:52 am »
They're afraid Obama's gonna make it harder to buy guns, so they're buying them while they can.

I've seen a few news articles about it.

there are also those who feel that obama will make us weak and easy for more attacks possibly ground attacks even

people want to protect themselves from this sort of thing
don't expect to hear too much from me

just wanted to drop in and say hi

hi

Offline xxxchihiroxxx

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Re: Re-arming America? ("Americans who 'cling' to guns, etc...")
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 08:26:18 am »
well I'm not going to pretend to be some big shot who knows everything about politics but from what I can tell these people are still under the hypnosis that anything that is remotly similar to cominuisum will lead us into being the second soviet union.

this i find to be total poppycock!

Really I do see where the patern starts, they take away the guns so that people cant fight back, they make taxes higher so everyones poor, they put all the people into a state of fear and panic, and then caboom genocide and a communistic goverment insues. though i do not think this is whats happening to us i think this is what many people are thinking thanks to the late night radio programs that have been spouting such things like everyone needs a gun cause its going to be so horrid that its every man for themselfs and no ones gonna help ya cause some random dude is gonnat ry braking into your house and taking over your home (it took me a good hour to calm my gran down from the idea, still cant convice her that Obama is not an elitist)

Really people are over reacting, i think most of it is fear because the last time we were ever in a situation remotly similar to this one the depression happend, and war had just showed us the horrors of comunisum and corrupt goverment. Theres also the new things coming to us that no one knows what to make of, for many its a new president thats of something other than pure white blood. (Obama isjust as much black as he is white) and dont forget things have changed this year a LOT

were in a horrid recession not to mention the prospect that taxes may raise soon under the new jurisdiction (I'm thankfull that my familey's buisness isnt hurt but I know I'm one of the lucky ones) so everyone right now is basicaly thinking that if they dont buy a gun soon

a. they will be defensless when poverty causes people to strike out in rash ways
b. The prices will raise so much that they can never buy one thus making them vonerable
c. the fear of comunisum is upon many, making them scurry in a last attempt to defend themselfs against the terror

Well tahts at least how I see it. Granted I am only 16 so I dont know everything, if anything I'm probally a bit nieve to the whole thing but I try to get into politics when I can, and personally have had enough of late night radio and other people of similar view trying to brain wash the country (and my Grandma apparently) into thinking the post apocalypse is upon us. I have a very democratic view on thinsg and personalythink that Obama will not take away guns if he sees that it will insue fear of comunisum and genoside into the country, though granted tax's on guns and amunition are very likley to rise.

though personaly if you ask me i dont see why they dont invest in other things like sling shots or bow and arrows xD if used correctly they can be just as affective, if not more. My cousin can go rabit and deer hunting with a sling shot, and is really good at it to >.> though granted he does miss every often than not... but theres always moer amo (rocks) laying on the ground for free! xD
returning with a vengeance to K con~

Offline jaybug

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Re: Re-arming America? ("Americans who 'cling' to guns, etc...")
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 05:46:59 pm »
@ Tom, liquor store sales are up, but I think that is more because of the smoking ban in bars. Why go to a plce that charges so much if you cannot fully enjoy being there.

@ Chihiro, guns are but the tip of the iceberg as it were. Eminent Domain is a far more insidious device used against ordinary people. It picks off people one by one, in lieu of en masse. Pardon my French. But, where is the established property rights organization, comparable to the NRA? Beats me too.

And the term is slippery slope. The NRA uses it to describe any action that may in future harm the individual's right to bear arms. N.O.W. uses it to describe any actions in future that may be taken to reduce a woman's right to choose. There are others, but at least those you may have heard of. Scream and shout if someone comes close to even abrogating those rights. Even breathes on them. ya know?
Have Fun

Jay