Author Topic: Rhythm Games - 2009 (Read 19838 times)

DancingTofu · « **on:** January 31, 2009, 11:19:16 pm »

What kind of things would you like to see with Rhythm Games at Kumoricon this year?

We wound up not having any sort of permanent setup for Guitar Hero last year; did that sadden anyone?

I noticed that a lot of people didn't know when the DDR tournament was; how could we better communicate tournament schedules to attendees?

What would people think of a variable music game station (preferably two) equipped with headphone jacks which could be used for beatmania, guitar hero, or any other music game that can be played while stationary?

I'm planning on setting up two stations for DDR next year again. Would people find it too distracting if I were to build a PVC framework for ParaParaParadise similar to the ones found on arcade machines which would sit above and around one of the DDR stations so that it could be swapped from one game to the other easily?

Suggestions and discussions are welcome.

oslapedo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2009, 11:20:57 pm »

I would looove ParaParaParadise, or any sort of game like that.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2009, 11:26:31 pm »

Well, we had ParaParaParadise available throughout the con, but it wasn't played very much. I'd prefer to get a DanceManiaX 2nd Mix Append J-Paradise cabinet to use, but I doubt the con will pay for one, and I doubt I'll be able to afford one at that time unless I get a really good job out of nowhere.

Kurokaizoku · « **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2009, 09:25:21 pm »

Quote from: DancingTofu on January 31, 2009, 11:19:16 pm

I noticed that a lot of people didn't know when the DDR tournament was; how could we better communicate tournament schedules to attendees?

Tournaments are posted in the guide schedule. If the attendees don't pay attention to what we give them I don't know what to do. That's what the schedule is posted for. However, I do plan on getting use of the white boards this year. So we can post Current and Next tournaments as well as a schedule and a 'who to ask' board. But that has nothing to do with this. So. Yea. We try and give them the info they just didnt look.

Quote from: DancingTofu on January 31, 2009, 11:19:16 pm

I'm planning on setting up two stations for DDR next year again.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #4 on:** February 02, 2009, 01:31:25 am »

Yeah, that's what I told people who asked me. I even had signs and stuff. D:

Forget something after that second quote there?

blazinghydro · « **Reply #5 on:** February 02, 2009, 01:55:47 am »

could we get dance maniax? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_Maniax that would be epic.

dshwshr55 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2009, 05:30:06 am »

I bet projector screens would draw more people in. Like at least 6' x 10'.
Use them for more than just rhythm games, though.

Haha, you could even make your own currency for the game room and rent it out! XD

Kurokaizoku · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2009, 12:01:46 pm »

I did forget.

Do you mean two stations like last year? Or more??

Quote from: dshwshr55 on February 02, 2009, 05:30:06 am

I bet projector screens would draw more people in. Like at least 6' x 10'.

Other areas within the con generally need them more. We sometimes have the opportunity to use one but not for long periods as panels and other places use them as well.

princessmoon · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2009, 12:04:18 pm »

Quote from: DancingTofu on January 31, 2009, 11:19:16 pm

I noticed that a lot of people didn't know when the DDR tournament was; how could we better communicate tournament schedules to attendees?

Well, it wasn't only the DDR tournament, but other tournaments were delayed from the scheduled time for some reasons...but that's why we kept asking when different tournaments would start. We mapped out our schedules to go to different panels + tournaments + other extremely fun things @ K-con ^_~!

Messed up plans = less fun!

Giant signs for delayed tournaments (maybe 1 inside game room (computerized?) + one outisde the entrance) would be very helpful 'cause I know the staff are busy and doing what they can, so I would rather not bother them for trivial things.

dshwshr55 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 02, 2009, 02:26:17 pm »

Yes, the projector screen would half to be out of our own gamer pockets.
...
That sounds kind of disheartening like that.. >.>

Kurokaizoku · « **Reply #10 on:** February 02, 2009, 05:35:30 pm »

Quote from: princessmoon on February 02, 2009, 12:04:18 pm

Quote from: DancingTofu on January 31, 2009, 11:19:16 pm
I noticed that a lot of people didn't know when the DDR tournament was; how could we better communicate tournament schedules to attendees?

Well, it wasn't only the DDR tournament, but other tournaments were delayed from the scheduled time for some reasons...but that's why we kept asking when different tournaments would start. We mapped out our schedules to go to different panels + tournaments + other extremely fun things @ K-con ^_~!

Messed up plans = less fun!

Giant signs for delayed tournaments (maybe 1 inside game room (computerized?) + one outisde the entrance) would be very helpful 'cause I know the staff are busy and doing what they can, so I would rather not bother them for trivial things.

Well I don't know the hotel this year but the Vancouver Hilton in 07 had signs outside the room that told you what the name of the room was + what was going on in it ie gaming, karaoke, etc. Also would have a schedule. And it scrolled through the info on a small 7x9ish screen next to the door.

Yes tournaments were delayed last year, I honestly don't know why. We had some staffing issues which played into the delay issue.

Kurokaizoku · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2009, 05:36:43 pm »

Quote from: dshwshr55 on February 02, 2009, 02:26:17 pm

Yes, the projector screen would half to be out of our own gamer pockets.
...
That sounds kind of disheartening like that.. >.>

Yea, thats not going to happen. I'm pretty sure con goers or game staff are not going to go in on an expensive projector screen set up for the con.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #12 on:** February 03, 2009, 01:00:56 am »

Quote from: blazinghydro on February 02, 2009, 01:55:47 am

could we get dance maniax? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_Maniax that would be epic.

Funny you mention that ;P

Quote from: DancingTofu on January 31, 2009, 11:26:31 pm

Well, we had ParaParaParadise available throughout the con, but it wasn't played very much. I'd prefer to get a DanceManiaX 2nd Mix Append J-Paradise cabinet to use, but I doubt the con will pay for one, and I doubt I'll be able to afford one at that time unless I get a really good job out of nowhere.

Rene, I'm planning on just having it like last year's setup: two DDR setups back-to-back. I think that we should try to have Rock Band and DDR set up just like we had them last year. The V shape of the Rock Band seemed to work really well, and neither one was getting sound interference, and people were able to play DDR seriously on either side of the DDR setup without too much sound interference, except for a few times during particularly quiet songs. I never noticed particularly long lines for either, which means that we had good circulation going on. My biggest concern is that Guitar Hero seemed a little nerfed when everything was said and done. Hopefully we can arrange something with the more elongated room we're anticipating for next year to give all the Rhythm games space without having them all over the place.

Kurokaizoku · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2009, 02:50:53 pm »

Quote from: DancingTofu on February 03, 2009, 01:00:56 am

Quote from: DancingTofu on January 31, 2009, 11:26:31 pm
Well, we had ParaParaParadise available throughout the con, but it wasn't played very much. I'd prefer to get a DanceManiaX 2nd Mix Append J-Paradise cabinet to use, but I doubt the con will pay for one, and I doubt I'll be able to afford one at that time unless I get a really good job out of nowhere.

Rene, I'm planning on just having it like last year's setup: two DDR setups back-to-back. I think that we should try to have Rock Band and DDR set up just like we had them last year. The V shape of the Rock Band seemed to work really well, and neither one was getting sound interference, and people were able to play DDR seriously on either side of the DDR setup without too much sound interference, except for a few times during particularly quiet songs. I never noticed particularly long lines for either, which means that we had good circulation going on. My biggest concern is that Guitar Hero seemed a little nerfed when everything was said and done. Hopefully we can arrange something with the more elongated room we're anticipating for next year to give all the Rhythm games space without having them all over the place.

That should work. I'm still waiting on a number from Jaki before I figure out what we will have out. I'm going to be working closely with Jen on the room this year and Jaki as well. I have the con equiptment list and once i know the room i can also work on more details.

blazinghydro · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2009, 03:01:27 pm »

Quote from: DancingTofu on January 31, 2009, 11:26:31 pm

Rene, I'm planning on just having it like last year's setup: two DDR setups back-to-back. I think that we should try to have Rock Band and DDR set up just like we had them last year. The V shape of the Rock Band seemed to work really well, and neither one was getting sound interference, and people were able to play DDR seriously on either side of the DDR setup without too much sound interference, except for a few times during particularly quiet songs. I never noticed particularly long lines for either, which means that we had good circulation going on. My biggest concern is that Guitar Hero seemed a little nerfed when everything was said and done. Hopefully we can arrange something with the more elongated room we're anticipating for next year to give all the Rhythm games space without having them all over the place.

I think we should have 1 of the rockbands on an elevated stage. The best felling while your playing rockband is when the audience gets into the song with you. With the v shape you dont have much room for an audience, i think there needs to be seats and maybe a projector. Even with just quick play

DancingTofu · « **Reply #15 on:** February 07, 2009, 02:00:24 am »

Well, I'm thinking V shape in a corner, rather than against a wall, so that you get two rectangles instead of two oblique quadrilaterals. I don't think a projector is a realistic thing to hope for, but if it's available for Rock Band, I'll make sure it gets set up. Having a single Rock Band stage at MEW Con worked because of the small size. With Kumoricon, we'll have 20 times as many people who want to play, and only about twice as much total space for gaming unless something crazy happens and we wind up with the 6000sqft room, which is very unlikely. So, if you do the math, we're at 10% of the spacial flexibility of MEW Con's gaming.

Seluecos · « **Reply #16 on:** March 08, 2009, 09:06:59 pm »

It'd be nice to see Beatmania IIDX, ParaParaParadise, Guitarfreaks/Drummania. You know, actual Japanese games lol. At least get some IIDX going lol. I would be there all day passing my pathetic 9's and few 10's XD
But I do acknowledge that you guys gotta be space minded and popularity oriented, so I'm sure you'll have to sacrifice IIDX for Guitar Hero and Rock Band (Much to my dismay, those games are too easy, even on expert T_T)
Anyway, here's hoping for a great gaming setup!

DancingTofu · « **Reply #17 on:** March 09, 2009, 01:30:51 am »

I'll bring my BeatMania IIDX controller and game(s) and make them available for free play, as they were last year. Hopefully I'll have a JPS2 by then, but I can't make any promises. I don't have express access to PPP or GF/DM, but I won't hesitate to set them up if I do get access to them. I don't really have much control over what get spent, so the most I can promise you is what I own or what the con owns. If you have your own equipment that you'd like to bring, you're more than welcome to do so.

Seluecos · « **Reply #18 on:** March 09, 2009, 01:56:35 am »

I -might- be able to bring a standard US Beatmania IIDX controller. As for games, I got copies of Red-DJ Troopers somewhere, but they're for Swap Magic Mod'd PS2. I'm thoroughly excited for some IIDX action at a con ^_^
I can convince my friend to go to K-Con based just off the fact their'll be IIDX lol. He has 2 controllers, so if he goes, he may be able to bring one if it's needed and I can't.
Since you have IIDX, what level songs do you play? As I stated, I can pass about 50% of 9's and have passed 2 tens so far. Hardest song I've passed is probably Anisakis from 15th (DJ Troopers). Yeah, a bit off topic, I know, but I'm excited to meet a fellow IIDX player! XD

DancingTofu · « **Reply #19 on:** March 09, 2009, 06:38:31 pm »

I only play 4's/5's and a couple 6's. I can stumble through a handful of 7's as well, but I'm really not that good. I haven't really had the time to practice at all, so I'm still pretty newbish. I focus mostly on DanceManiax and DDR as far as music games go, but I've played every rhythm game so far except for Jubeat and DJ Max, so at least I'm versatile.

I'm also a music major and a composer besides being a gamer, so the two merge well.

~boogiepop~ · « **Reply #20 on:** March 09, 2009, 06:44:45 pm »

I was gonna say I would throw in my Beatmania controllers too but it looks like you have enough!

I'd love to see some Pop'n Music at con though along with pretty much every other suggestion minus Rock Band.
Do a good job on organizing the tournament this year Tofu, ya huuuuuuuuuuur?

DancingTofu · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09, 2009, 06:51:16 pm »

I'll see if I can get in touch with Pantsu or Gosha about having some Pop'n Music available. I think Peaktra has a controller and some games too but he doesn't like bringing stuff to cons. I have a hard time getting him to bring himself most of the time.

You should bring your controller with you anyway. That way if something happens there are backups to be had.

~boogiepop~ · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2009, 08:56:15 pm »

Try to get Pika to bring ParaPara! I would be very sad if we couldn't play next year.

Also you missed out on Martial Beat last year because you were busy not being around, it was awesome. We should just kill Pektra and steal all of his games, I think that's the most reasonable way to assess the situation.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:00:26 pm »

Someone else has brought ParaPara for the last 3 years. I'll tell him what I told him last year: "bring stuff and people will like you."

~boogiepop~ · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:02:21 pm »

You sure someone else did? I pulled it out and I'm pretty sure he said he brought it.

Actually I'm fairly certain because I asked if it was there and he said he brought it.

Ah well, this is off topic. I'll bring what rhythm games I have for the game room though.

Kurokaizoku · « **Reply #25 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:09:08 pm »

The con offically owns ParaParaParadise. Japanese version. With a japanese console to go with. It has been at the con, it was there last year. No one played it that I can remember. And the owner asked the con to buy it from them, so we did ^_^

But point is. We do have PPP. It WILL be at the con. I think we may even have a set up for it so it is out there and not just for check-out.

~boogiepop~ · « **Reply #26 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:15:43 pm »

@ Kurokaizoku-
I would be more then pleased at that fact. I checked it out about three times last Kumoricon and trying to find a TV for it was terrible with all the other games that were going on.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #27 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:16:41 pm »

Sweet! Perhaps we could get that JPS2 and a NA PS2 set up as a variable rhythm gaming station for BeatMania, Pop'n Music, Guitar Hero, PPP, GF, etc. and keep the controllers set up, since rhythm game controllers are big and difficult to pilfer. Then people would just have to check out the games, and they'd be more likely to realize they're actually available.

Also, are people even seriously interested in free play of Guitar Hero any more? There will certainly be a tournament, but from what I've noticed it seems that all the people who used to play Guitar Hero nonstop now play Rock Band nonstop. It will be available for free play regardless, but do we still need a dedicated station for it? Also, does anyone actually like World Tour for anything besides the peripherals? It would be nice to here some more feedback on this so we know what to set up.

allstarsniper32 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 12, 2009, 10:29:35 pm »

Quote from: DancingTofu on March 09, 2009, 09:16:41 pm

Sweet! Perhaps we could get that JPS2 and a NA PS2 set up as a variable rhythm gaming station for BeatMania, Pop'n Music, Guitar Hero, PPP, GF, etc. and keep the controllers set up, since rhythm game controllers are big and difficult to pilfer. Then people would just have to check out the games, and they'd be more likely to realize they're actually available.

Also, are people even seriously interested in free play of Guitar Hero any more? There will certainly be a tournament, but from what I've noticed it seems that all the people who used to play Guitar Hero nonstop now play Rock Band nonstop. It will be available for free play regardless, but do we still need a dedicated station for it? Also, does anyone actually like World Tour for anything besides the peripherals? It would be nice to here some more feedback on this so we know what to set up.

I honestly don't think GH needs it's own station anymore, until Guitar Hero Metallica comes out. I like a bunch of songs that are on GH:WT but other than that, I think Rock Band 2 is better. K-con is quite a ways away but we'll see what comes out before then for you to decide what's going to happen. I'll definitely let you know if GH:M is any good, I'm assuming it will be but you never know until it comes out.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #29 on:** March 12, 2009, 10:50:21 pm »

Okay, that's kind of the response I was expecting, and you're the main person I was hoping to hear from. If you want to speak for any friends, relatives, etc. as well, go for it. I want to make sure people have the best experience we can provide, meaning the more diverse feedback we get the better.

Seluecos · « **Reply #30 on:** April 02, 2009, 06:00:49 pm »

So farm this sounds awesome >:3

Eternal Yamcha · « **Reply #31 on:** May 11, 2009, 10:12:36 pm »

The overwhelming response I have gotten from people I have talked to that play Guitar Hero, from those starting out to seasoned people who can 5 star EVERYTHING (to whom I say, I hate you >.>) is that, while Guitar Hero World Tour was good, it's not as good as the other major releases (save GH).

I'd recommend either keeping GH3 as the game to use, or use Guitar Hero:Smash Hits, if it turns out to be pretty good. GH3 still has the toughest songs overall (Yeah, when someone can convince me that Satch Boogie is tougher than TTFaF, MAYBE I'll reconsider) and definitely showcases the series' merits. I'd personally weep if the final song of the GH tourney this year was The Devil Went Down To Georgia DLC on Expert.

As for Smash Hits? It threatens to unseat GH3 as the toughest game in the series due to its high amount of final set songs from the previous installments. Freebird/Through The Fire and Flames/Play With Me/Bark At The Moon/Raining Blood remade? If you REALLY want people to show off their skills, I'm thinking Smash Hits is going to be the best one. Not to mention that it's probably going to be the most sought after since it has many, many of the fan favorite songs.

World Tour added the new mechanics for guitar and that made it awesome. The whole band? No, Rock Band is still better. So World Tour is left competing directly with GH3 and, in my opinion, Smash Hits. It doesn't look good for WT against Smash Hits and I and MANY others still prefer to play GH3 over WT any day of the week.

Sure, there's still some time to think about it and I'd recommend NOT making ANY decision until after Smash Hits is released. But please, consider what I've said.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #32 on:** May 11, 2009, 11:55:12 pm »

That's pretty much been my plan...although I'm not confirmed for running GH again this year. Don't worry though; we're pretty good at listening to the overwhelming majority. ;]

Eternal Yamcha · « **Reply #33 on:** May 12, 2009, 03:44:54 am »

...No. Don't EVER say that again or else I'll, I'll.... ;_;

I sincerely hope that you guys get green lit for the GH tournament this year, even if I don't enter it, it's a ton of fun to watch and the constant CROWDS of people usually hanging around the later rounds would testify with me.

If you do get green lit and decide to go the GH3 route, I'd be willing to offer my 360 HD for the tournament since it has a bunch of the toughest songs released on it. Provided it gets taken care of.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #34 on:** May 14, 2009, 01:48:29 am »

I just meant that it might be me running it or it might be someone else running it.

allstarsniper32 · « **Reply #35 on:** May 26, 2009, 07:27:20 pm »

I'm just gonna throw this out there. If cons want to have guitar dueling tournaments, they could just use all the songs from Rock Band 2 instead of having to use the Guitar Hero games. you can say any song is the hardest song in the GH series but they have yet to have a song that's more insane that the DLC song "caprici di diablo".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHmyHKRiHU

There's a vid of it. Another hard song would be Thrasher, they have more I just don't want to list them/remember them. You could also use Rock Band to run a drum duels tourny as well.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #36 on:** May 26, 2009, 10:46:02 pm »

It's something we'll certainly be considering. I think it will probably come down to whichever one we can get more DLC for, tbh. We'll probably determine which game we'll use 100% for sure by August at the latest.

I definitely lean towards RB2 because it's so much easier to navigate the songlist. And they have a TON of the same songs anyway.

Eternal Yamcha · « **Reply #37 on:** June 02, 2009, 12:51:35 pm »

Rock Band still needs to offer MORE for the lead/rhythm guitar portion of the game. Even with all of that DLC, it still fails on that front. The mechanics are vastly different, scoring's different, guitars are different (and I hate the Rock Band guitars) and the song choices are different. They're similar, but two completely separate games.

As I say all the time: Rock Band offers the more cohesive band unit. Don't get Guitar Hero if you want the band. Guitar Hero still offers the best guitar part. Don't get Rock Band to play guitar exclusively.

I like Rock Band a ton, I just don't think it's suitable to base a guitar-only tournament around it. Rock Band can host the vocal, drum and band tournaments... But keep Guitar/Bass tournaments on Guitar Hero.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #38 on:** June 02, 2009, 09:04:36 pm »

My observation has been that the mechanics are identical, Rock Band has a much more valid scoring system, and the graphical interface, display colours, and latency management are vastly superior. I'm not saying I am against using GH, just that we aren't going to make decisions based on vague qualifications. Also, guitar hero controllers are completely compatible with RB so the controller argument is kind of moot.

Also, if this argument is going to happen, Guitar Freaks. End of story.

Eternal Yamcha · « **Reply #39 on:** June 02, 2009, 11:21:54 pm »

Well, the main difference I've found is that Rock Band 2 isn't as lenient with the window to hit notes, that aspect is closer to Guitar Hero 2's window to hit notes. Guitar Hero 3 kinda went too far and made it so you can visibly miss the note and Aerosmith basically pulled that back in, hence my love for that game since it made it challenging enough without making it Guitar Hero 1 stupid. World Tour and Metallica are both closer to Aerosmith, but they're both leaving something to be desired and certainly aren't the most popular choices... Though that's from my personal experience when seeing the amount of players on XBLive and ScoreHero.com.

But the window to hits notes IS important... A .1 second delay can be catastrophic. I personally think Rock Band 2 is a bit strict on it and the scoring system is identical to Guitar Hero World Tour (or, vice verse) as it's the same, just less impressive looking. Not to mention if the games share songs, they're noticeably different. Livin' On A Prayer is my big case-in-point on this.

Admittedly the differences between the two are more noticeable to people that play frequently and I've noticed that on the lower difficulties, they're basically the same. But they really start to shine if you're playing on Expert since there's more notes and simply more HOPOs to deal with.

Also want to point out that, depending on the size of the screen, Rock Band becomes even more difficult since the difference between HOPOs and regular notes is a fraction of the width while on Guitar Hero the difference is quite a bit more noticeable since it's a difference of a black border and a rather bright cap on each of the gems. That and the fact that the setlists for each game is different enough still. Guitar Hero's going more classic rock and Rock Band appears to be more modern.

Again, Rock Band by far has the better vocals, drums and better band. I'd be saying the same things if Rock Band wasn't going to be used in those tournaments (assuming there were any) so I'm certainly far from biased towards Guitar Hero. I and many others still believe that Guitar Hero is still the better guitar game... And many of those people believe Rock Band's the better band game.

Last thing: It's not really an argument forming. I've said my piece and have nothing left to say and I certainly don't intend on driving this towards that path at all, since it's counter-productive. I'm basically just saying "Here's what I think and here's why." I definitely want to see both used this year... Battle of the Bands Rock Band tournament FTW.

Eternal Yamcha · « **Reply #40 on:** June 02, 2009, 11:37:08 pm »

......Rock Band Beatles FTW as well. >.> ^_^

DancingTofu · « **Reply #41 on:** June 02, 2009, 11:56:14 pm »

.1 second delay is RIDICULOUS for any rhythm game. For RB and GH which don't have graduated timing windows (this is one of my primary reasons for preferring Guitar Freaks), latency can be enough to make the game unplayable.

I could go into extensive depth to describe every little issue I have with GH and RB here, and why Guitar Freaks is a superior game, but really it's a moot point. People aren't going to sign up tournaments for superior games, otherwise 120 people would sign up for a KoF '98 tournament and nobody would bother with SSBB. It comes down to which game will satisfy the attendees, and that's where the careful judgment is most crucial. GH3 and RB2 are both solid enough to run a tournament on; neither one has HUGE gaping flaws. I really wish we could get a Guitar sim with graduated timing windows and a less haphazard scoring system (essentially, the system used by GH and RB is a simplified version of the scoring system BeatMania and DDR stopped using back in 2000), now that more and more people are starting to FC the hardest songs. The problem is that Guitar Freaks (a game with far more descriptive difficulty ratings, a wider range of difficulty, and nearly 12 years in the industry) simply isn't mainstream. People would see it and think, "hey what's this GH ripoff?" Clearly GH:WT isn't what people seem to be asking for, and at this point it comes down to factors of availability and popularity between RB2 and GH3.

allstarsniper32 · « **Reply #42 on:** June 03, 2009, 09:34:23 am »

First to Tofu; I don't think guitar freaks is superior but I do agree that in terms of realistic timing windows it would be ideal. But also in terms of realisticness, it doesn't have hammer-ons and pull-offs like a real guitar has. I don't think that any are extremely better than the others but there could be the "perfect" guitar game if there was a game that had the timing window of guitar freaks and just added HOPO's, but it would also need some more buttons. Three buttons just didn't do it for me. You should check out Rock Revolution, you might like that one more, too bad it has incredibly bad covers.

Now Eternal Yamcha; While I do agree that the HOPOs on GH are easier to notice I think I should just point out that the HOPO look doesn't really matter if people are in a tournament. The only people who don't know what they look like on either game is the people who haven't gotten to try them yet. I can play GH and RB and I know what both HOPOs look like, and when I saw Rock Revolution I looked and saw what the HOPOs looked like and knew when I didn't have to strum. Also, it's easy to see them in RB since the notes are smaller and there's two lines which make yet another more small rectangle in the middle. so they look like this | | | | while the regular notes look like this | |, I don't see how anyone could not notice this, I'm not saying that you didn't but some people really don't see the difference. If you're good at GH then you'd be good at RB and the timing window won't make a difference if you get used to the RB one since then GH seems even more easy.

I think if you look at what a lot of people think about some of the songs that are on both games you'd find that RB fanboys obviously like songs in RB more and the same goes for GH fanboys, however, I think the fanboys are moot since they are just rallying for their favorite game. when you look at the people who like both games you'll find that a majority of them agree that RB charts the songs better.

I don't understand how you came to the conclusion of GH being classic Rock and RB being modern, I've played through GH3 and GHWT and I think there's a pretty even mix of classic and modern. RB has more metal but not all of it is modern.

Well, I don't know what else to say but I'm watching e3 press conferences since I completely forgot about e3 these first couple days!

ha~ma · « **Reply #43 on:** July 22, 2009, 07:56:39 pm »

Quote from: guitarherolover32 on June 03, 2009, 09:34:23 am

First to Tofu; I don't think guitar freaks is superior but I do agree that in terms of realistic timing windows it would be ideal. But also in terms of realisticness, it doesn't have hammer-ons and pull-offs like a real guitar has. I don't think that any are extremely better than the others but there could be the "perfect" guitar game if there was a game that had the timing window of guitar freaks and just added HOPO's, but it would also need some more buttons. Three buttons just didn't do it for me. You should check out Rock Revolution, you might like that one more, too bad it has incredibly bad covers.

None of those criticisms are really valid because it is a simulation game. Simulation =/= emulation of something. You can be as liberal as you want about realism when you're simulating something (eg: DDR). At higher levels of GH and RB you have tons of hyper picking, which is really what GF boils down to. A chart can only have three buttons and be just as difficult as 5. You have an opinion and that's fine, but to say GF is flawed because it doesn't have more buttons simply isn't a good argument. There are gaping flaws to GF, but you really didn't point any of those out. Realistic timing windows? Guitar Freaks = Early Freaks.

allstarsniper32 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 22, 2009, 10:46:58 pm »

Quote from: ha~ma on July 22, 2009, 07:56:39 pm

Quote from: guitarherolover32 on June 03, 2009, 09:34:23 am
First to Tofu; I don't think guitar freaks is superior but I do agree that in terms of realistic timing windows it would be ideal. But also in terms of realisticness, it doesn't have hammer-ons and pull-offs like a real guitar has. I don't think that any are extremely better than the others but there could be the "perfect" guitar game if there was a game that had the timing window of guitar freaks and just added HOPO's, but it would also need some more buttons. Three buttons just didn't do it for me. You should check out Rock Revolution, you might like that one more, too bad it has incredibly bad covers.
None of those criticisms are really valid because it is a simulation game. Simulation =/= emulation of something. You can be as liberal as you want about realism when you're simulating something (eg: DDR). At higher levels of GH and RB you have tons of hyper picking, which is really what GF boils down to. A chart can only have three buttons and be just as difficult as 5. You have an opinion and that's fine, but to say GF is flawed because it doesn't have more buttons simply isn't a good argument. There are gaping flaws to GF, but you really didn't point any of those out. Realistic timing windows? Guitar Freaks = Early Freaks.

If you re-read what you quoted me saying I don't, in any way, say GF is "flawed" because it only has 3 buttons. I simply said it needs more buttons and HOPO to make it more realistic since I already stated that I agree about GF having the better timing window. I don't point out any of GF gaping flaws because honestly I've only played it a few times at Sakura-con because they had GF and Drum mania arcade machines setup.

ha~ma · « **Reply #45 on:** July 23, 2009, 12:21:30 am »

Quote from: guitarherolover32 on July 22, 2009, 10:46:58 pm

Quote from: ha~ma on July 22, 2009, 07:56:39 pm
Quote from: guitarherolover32 on June 03, 2009, 09:34:23 am
First to Tofu; I don't think guitar freaks is superior but I do agree that in terms of realistic timing windows it would be ideal. But also in terms of realisticness, it doesn't have hammer-ons and pull-offs like a real guitar has. I don't think that any are extremely better than the others but there could be the "perfect" guitar game if there was a game that had the timing window of guitar freaks and just added HOPO's, but it would also need some more buttons. Three buttons just didn't do it for me. You should check out Rock Revolution, you might like that one more, too bad it has incredibly bad covers.
None of those criticisms are really valid because it is a simulation game. Simulation =/= emulation of something. You can be as liberal as you want about realism when you're simulating something (eg: DDR). At higher levels of GH and RB you have tons of hyper picking, which is really what GF boils down to. A chart can only have three buttons and be just as difficult as 5. You have an opinion and that's fine, but to say GF is flawed because it doesn't have more buttons simply isn't a good argument. There are gaping flaws to GF, but you really didn't point any of those out. Realistic timing windows? Guitar Freaks = Early Freaks.

If you re-read what you quoted me saying I don't, in any way, say GF is "flawed" because it only has 3 buttons. I simply said it needs more buttons and HOPO to make it more realistic since I already stated that I agree about GF having the better timing window. I don't point out any of GF gaping flaws because honestly I've only played it a few times at Sakura-con because they had GF and Drum mania arcade machines setup.

You are claiming that lack of realism is a flaw. In your book, having less buttons is being less realistic.

DancingTofu · « **Reply #46 on:** July 23, 2009, 04:22:29 am »

It's a pretty moot argument. I don't see why it's worth having. Neither game is perfect, but neither game is atrocious either. Do I feel that both of them could be a lot better fairly easily? Yes. Can any of us do something about that? No. Unless we get definite access to quality Guitar Freaks setups for the convention, there's no point in discussing this here. If you two want to talk about the pros and cons of each game, there is a private message system that would be appropriate for that.

Matt, regarding syncing, you have argued that interpretation of synchronization is just that: interpretation. Even an actual guitar amplifier will have audio delay, so "perfect" sync is impossible. The point was that Guitar Hero's just as offsync, without the tools to help home in on the delay. With Guitar Freaks one can oscillate their latency for a few notes and figure out the syncing to a fairly precise window, whereas GH and RB are hit/miss.

allstarsniper32 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 26, 2009, 09:08:36 pm »

Quote from: ha~ma on July 23, 2009, 12:21:30 am

You are claiming that lack of realism is a flaw. In your book, having less buttons is being less realistic.

Ok just to clear this up, I've reread what I posted and found the mistake that I made. I didn't mean to say that more buttons is more realistic, I just meant to say that HOPO were more realistic. Sorry about the confusion ha~ma.

Asylymescapeie · « **Reply #48 on:** July 30, 2009, 01:39:02 pm »

I think we need to get everyone thatts part of a popular website to posts times like n deviantart anicon ani1chat and sites like that there very populer oh and afterthecon.com what do you guys think?

DancingTofu · « **Reply #49 on:** July 31, 2009, 08:23:11 pm »

I always post descriptions of all Rhythm Game tournaments I run on PNWBemani.net and beatspace.net. Those are both universal rhythm gaming sites with a focus on DDR/ITG. My main concern with draw is to get serious players from inside the region, so posting tournament details on irrelevant communities doesn't seem effective. Now that I use facebook, I'll probably aim to mention the tournaments there as well, since half my contacts on facebook are gamers.

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Author Topic: Rhythm Games - 2009 (Read 19838 times)

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