2009 AMV Iron Chef thread.

[Prinz Eugen]

Questions comments, and suggestions (and wails of desperate foreboding)  can all happen here!

:-)

I hope to make SIX packages for the contestants.
Generally, what's INSIDE those packages are a complete surprise until they are opened.

The VOBs this year will be mostly new, and I will try to collect more raws as well, so there may be less fansubs, and they will be newer shows.

[Pie Row Maniac]

Is the song a surprise as well?

[Prinz Eugen]

Is the song a surprise as well?

I note that you say 'the song' as a singular noun, so first, each pack will have different stuff in it from one pack to the next, but within each pack will be a choice of about five or six animes or more, then another disk with I'd say at least 40 or more choices for audio sources.

The video and audio choices are all kept as a surprise until the check-in.
But each person will get many options to choose from.

However, I am still tending to steer the some of the video selections to what's relatively new on Japanese TV (and hopefully popular there too.**) What shows on Adult Swim or Cartoon Whatever has no bearing on the selection process, because technically, what shows on US television is as irrelevant to anime as what shown on French, Peruvian, or German television channels. I *will* be including *some* VOBs from US store-bought DVDs: generally one show to each pack. Typically those shows are 2 or 3 years old by the time they make it to US stores.

** NewType used to be handy for this; they had lists of popular shows and characters IN JAPAN - it was a great way to keep tabs on the latest trends.

[x.akito]

Exactly when is this and how would I be able to enter?

[Prinz Eugen]

Exactly when is this

Well, Programming will determine the EXACT times and places of the two gatherings.
Generally they are at least 24 hrs apart but not more than 36 hours apart.

You get (a) a first meeting when contestants friends and fans show up.
We go over the basic rules, and probably show some previous entries so people get an idea of what can be done (or at least attempted.) Then each contestant (up to about six or eight people max.) picks up one of the sealed, randomized packs of FUN STUFF which usually include several discs of VOBs, fansubs, 'raw' anime episodes, and sometimes one or more audio disks too. Each pack has different shows in it so every project will look different.

Then you get (b) a second meeting the following day when everybody meets up and the contestants return and "SHOW US YOUR STUFF." Depending on the number of entrants we can either call a hand vote or a ballot vote, but the audience of the second meeting picks the winner. As contest coordinator I should have a prize with me which I can award on the spot, or we can do it during Closing Ceremonies. In any case I will announce the winner at Closing Ceremonies and post the title of the winning project somewhere on a public forum - usually the Kumoricon forum and also the animemusicvideos.org forum. So the winner gets a flash of worldwide Internet fame too!
(No personal details are posted - that is all kept confidential.)

and how would I be able to enter?

Easy - as explained above. You show up at the panel called 'AMV Iron Chef Check-in' - watch for it in the programming grid and keep an eye in case we get moved to the 17th Floor Back Broom Closet Room or whatever. You pick up the pack with our best wishes and encouragement. The 'secret ingredient' or special rule or objective is revealed at that time. You can ONLY use the audio and video in your pack. Then off you go. You have 24-36 hours to complete the work using your own computer(s) and software tools.

You can have a gang of friends help you, but each individual project is only eligible for the one prize. So if nine guys all crank out with you and you win, you all get to figure out how the one prize gets fairly attributed to your team.

Same goes if two contestants decide to work together. They DO get to merge their packs for source material, but they only get to submit ONE entry - again eligible only for the ONE prize.

Does this answer your questions?

[x.akito]

Yes, it does. Thank you.

[rollthestampede]

what day is this panel. i like to iron chef every now and then

[Prinz Eugen]

Typically the 'check in' is sometime on Saturday before noon, and the 'Show us what you got' rendezvous is Sunday evening. So participants get about 28 hrs or more to CREATE

Watch the schedule at the actual con.
Times and assigned rooms can change up to the last munite.

- G

[thundercatlord]

I'll be there. I have to defend my title 

[rollthestampede]

prepare to lose that title.
The king can step aside because the Ace is back 

[somanyturtles]

But this time the King has a leigon of turtles at his side. 

[thundercatlord]

oh, boys... I am so going to kill at this Iron Chef/Editor...why...you'll find out. It doesn't matter what anime I get, my epic idea with still win the audience over.

[somanyturtles]

Im gonna laugh if the "Secret Ingredient" screws your plan up. And its gonna sting even more cuz I can do it to your face roomie.

[rollthestampede]

i should get my laptop out of repair this week so she will be raring to go come iron chef time.

so do we get to pick the music and just use the footage or do we use what we get?

[Prinz Eugen]

so do we get to pick the music and just use the footage or do we use what we get?

See above, each person (or team) gets a package of material in which SOME of the material is common to ALL participants (including the secret ingredient if it is a music group or specific show, etc,) and the rest is UNIQUE to each package. And that is ALL you get to work with. But you ought to get PLENTY to work with.

Now a bit of a hiccup on my end (and I am recovering as best I can)
Two H/Ds with ALL my raws FAILED during a mirroring backup.
So that's ALL gone ...

I am scrambling to d/l new raws for people to work with, and I think I can pull it off.
If not there will just be more VOBs and fansubs to work with.

Thy typical package contains 3 or 4 data DVDs containing music, raws, VOBs from DVDs, and fansubs.
Formats are generally  avi, mkv, vob, and mp4. There may be a few ogm files thrown in.

And I have a NEW, SILLY IDEA for the secret ingredient!
(But I haven't committed to it,,, yet...

- G

[thundercatlord]

mkv, vob, and mp4. There may be a few ogm files thrown in.

mkvs are EVIL!!! and mp4 too,  I have yet to figure out how to convert them to something I can use in Sony Vegas.

[rollthestampede]

does Vegas load avisynth files, you can make a  script to load the mp4 or mkv and serve it to vegas. IF not i know i have converted mkv files before, get you a hug HD and just edit everything uncompressed LOL.

Another possible cop out would be to convert them to a viewable DVD and rip new VOb files and edit as you are used to.

[rollthestampede]

Questions comments, and suggestions (and wails of desperate foreboding)  can all happen here!

:-)

I hope to make SIX packages for the contestants.
Generally, what's INSIDE those packages are a complete surprise until they are opened.

The VOBs this year will be mostly new, and I will try to collect more raws as well, so there may be less fansubs, and they will be newer shows.

how big are these packets file size wiz is it like one 4.5 Gb disk of randomness or is it a couple of DVDs, so I know how big an external I need to bring

[somanyturtles]

The package size last year was like 2 DVDs discs and 2 data discs of music (mp3). One disc of the "secret ingredient" (which was an musical artist), one disc of random music (really random), and one or two of fottage. So I'd say around 10 Gb. 

mkv, vob, and mp4. There may be a few ogm files thrown in.

mkvs are EVIL!!! and mp4 too,  I have yet to figure out how to convert them to something I can use in Sony Vegas.

I second that.

[Prinz Eugen]

First, use a text editor like Notepat and creat a text file called, say "import.avs"
It's a TXT file but specify the extension as .avs

Now edit the text file to contain ONE LINE:

DirectShowSource("C:\temp][your-file].mkv")

So if you have a file called Wolfs_Rain-05.mkv, then put that in C:\temp and then make the one-line text file say:

DirectShowSource("C:\temp\Wolfs_Rain-05.mkv")

SAVE the file.

Open VirtualDubMod and DRAG the file "import.avs" into the grey blank area.

The MKV should open up, without subtitles. Then you can select scenes and output fairly crisp, uncompressed AVIs into your project folder and drop THOSE avis into your Sony Vegas or Adobe Premiere, etc.

- G

[rollthestampede]

First, use a text editor like Notepat and creat a text file called, say "import.avs"
It's a TXT file but specify the extension as .avs

Now edit the text file to contain ONE LINE:

DirectShowSource("C:\temp][your-file].mkv")

So if you have a file called Wolfs_Rain-05.mkv, then put that in C:\temp and then make the one-line text file say:

DirectShowSource("C:\temp\Wolfs_Rain-05.mkv")

SAVE the file.

Open VirtualDubMod and DRAG the file "import.avs" into the grey blank area.

The MKV should open up, without subtitles. Then you can select scenes and output fairly crisp, uncompressed AVIs into your project folder and drop THOSE avis into your Sony Vegas or Adobe Premiere, etc.

- G

YOu would need to have Avisynth installed as well.

If you have the premier Avs plug in you could edit with the .avs file directly

[murder_of_raven]

mkv, vob, and mp4. There may be a few ogm files thrown in.

mkvs are EVIL!!! and mp4 too,  I have yet to figure out how to convert them to something I can use in Sony Vegas.

I use AP and AE so maybe it's different, but I actually really like working with mkv's. However, yeah, mp4s seem to be a problem for everyone!

And I'm really interested in doing this however it sounds like it'd take up an enormous chunk of Kumoricon, which I'm not sure I'm willing to devote. Is there any chance that, some day, we could have an Iron Chef whose first meet is the day before Kumoricon? I'm usually super available that day.

[Prinz Eugen]

... Is there any chance that, some day, we could have an Iron Chef whose first meet is the day before Kumoricon? I'm usually super available that day.

Anything is *possible* as long as, for the Iron Chef, its as fair to locals as it is to distant folks driving (or even flying) in.

One possibility might be for us to have:
(a) some sort of pre-qualification round or advance nomination process, and then
(b) I FedEx out a bunch of packets to these preselected candidates, say [n] days in advance.
Like maybe the Friday before the weekend before the con.

Then people do what they can and bring in their finished projects to show.
There would be no check-in event needed - just show up and PLAY YOUR PROJECT!

Could be a neat idea...


So - how do you all think candidates should be pre-selected?
I was once invited (by an AMV Coordinator at another con)  to create an Iron chef project and mail it in to them, for example.

[murder_of_raven]

I would be so pleased if this were to become a reality! =)

I'm probably too much of a newbie to be able to give advice on the selection process, but I'd be willing to jump through all sorts of metaphorical hoops to be involved without having to spend my entire Kumoricon on it.

[Prinz Eugen]

I'm probably too much of a newbie

If I can devise an advance selection/election/ promotion system, I'd try to make itidentify experienced, willing, and capable candidates, but I'd want it to be as open and egalitarian on the OPINION INPUT side as possible - so being a 'n00b' means nothing less than 'Welcome, and join the party! - Tell us about what you like!'

[murder_of_raven]

If I can devise an advance selection/election/ promotion system, I'd try to make itidentify experienced, willing, and capable candidates, but I'd want it to be as open and egalitarian on the OPINION INPUT side as possible - so being a 'n00b' means nothing less than 'Welcome, and join the party! - Tell us about what you like!'

Well, I was just saying I've never been involved in something like this so I don't really know how it goes. But it seems like there wouldn't be that many people who are interested, committed, and able to attend Kumoricon. How much further do we need to trim the contestant pool? (I really don't know!) Perhaps we could do something simple like submitting an already existing video to you just to prove that we were competent at making AMVs? I'd be okay with that. But, as I said before, I'd probably be okay with pretty much any selection method you devised, especially if it allowed me to participate

[Nira1992]

YES! Iron Chef competition I'll be joining for sure.

Though the mp4s could be a problem (and I'll have to try out that mkv method). Does anyone know how to get mp4s to work in Sony Vegas? I've been looking on the internet for a way to do it for weeks and haven't found a solution yet. 

[somanyturtles]

I dont really think there is one short of downloading file converting software. At least me and my friends havent found one yet.

[Prinz Eugen]

I broke down a few months ago and actually had to *pay* for a converter.
I use Prism (from nchsoftware.com) and it seems to do okay.

You drag-n-drop mkv, mp4, whatever into the window, then select AVI or MPG compression and select your codec. then press 'Go' and do something else for about an hour. (like work on another computer!) It will often automatically download any codec it needs - I've seen it do that.

In processing, it's kinda like a frame server but with no graphic output.

The results seem decent.

[murder_of_raven]

If I can devise an advance selection/election/ promotion system, I'd try to make itidentify experienced, willing, and capable candidates, but I'd want it to be as open and egalitarian on the OPINION INPUT side as possible - so being a 'n00b' means nothing less than 'Welcome, and join the party! - Tell us about what you like!'

Soo.... is there any update on this? It's been a while, I think.

[Prinz Eugen]

If I can devise an advance selection/election/ promotion system, I'd try to make it identify experienced, willing, and capable candidates, but I'd want it to be as open and egalitarian on the OPINION INPUT side as possible - so being a 'n00b' means nothing less than 'Welcome, and join the party! - Tell us about what you like!'

Soo.... is there any update on this? It's been a while, I think.

For 2009, no; we'll still run Iron Chef the way it's described here above, I'll have 6 or 8 packages of disks, and in the 'check-in' session I'll pass them out 1st come, 1st served. Running a 'find and invite candidates' or other ideas like sending advance packs out to likely contenders are are ideas we can discuss for 2010.

Back to working the 'Genki' intro...
(Last one...!)

[rollthestampede]

what happened to the other 2 contestants?

[murder_of_raven]

For 2009, no; we'll still run Iron Chef the way it's described here above, I'll have 6 or 8 packages of disks, and in the 'check-in' session I'll pass them out 1st come, 1st served. Running a 'find and invite candidates' or other ideas like sending advance packs out to likely contenders are are ideas we can discuss for 2010.

Well, perhaps we should start talking now? I'm definitely going to try it out this year, whether or not we still are doing it during the convention or not. But I would really prefer not missing a large portion of the convention and/or not sleeping. What do other creators think?

And geez, the submissions this year were so good it's really intimidating! Everybody did such an amazing job!

[thundercatlord]

To be honest, I don't really like the idea of doing the vids before con. Just doesn't seem like an Iron Chef competition if you do it at home. Honestly, I didn't miss out on anything. There wasn't a whole lot I wanted to do on that first day, besides the AMV Contest. I do feel like there may be some room to improve on certain things though. Not sure what at this point.

[murder_of_raven]

To be honest, I don't really like the idea of doing the vids before con. Just doesn't seem like an Iron Chef competition if you do it at home. Honestly, I didn't miss out on anything. There wasn't a whole lot I wanted to do on that first day, besides the AMV Contest. I do feel like there may be some room to improve on certain things though. Not sure what at this point.

Hmm... well that's a good point. But honestly there /was/ a lot I did Saturday and if one of the panels I run is on Saturday my schedule would get even worse. Maybe we could set it up so we got the stuff at the AMV Creator Meet-Up Friday so that we could at least get started early? I know that it isn't a perfect solution considering some people get in on Saturday, but from the criteria TCL and I have put out, it sounds like it would make at least us happy?

[rollthestampede]

there was a lot of stuff going on saturday that why i didnt start working till sunday morning.
I was there just about all day but what eves.

One thing i can say about the packets were maybe they were a bit overwelming. soo much music and sources its hard to decide were to start and next thing you know times up.

personally i would prefer more dvd footage and less subs/raws.

i know i raped that newtype disk for what is was worth

[murder_of_raven]

I think that that has a lot to do with what you are used to dealing with. I personally have the most experience with raws, so I'd actually not prefer DVD footage. It's just such a pain to do all the ripping and de-interlacing yourself!

[MichaelEvans]

Half that pain is the fact that for whatever reason they didn't do it right to begin with.

All this stuff is either hand-drawn or computer generated.  Two sources that are naturally progressive framed (like movies) by default.  Would it -honestly- kill the production firms to use the MPEG standard and give us 24/30 fps Progressive and let consumer hardware do pulldown/whatever as required for it's target output?

[Pie Row Maniac]

I'll be there. I have to defend my title 

prepare to lose that title.
The king can step aside because the Ace is back 

But this time the King has a leigon of turtles at his side. 

oh, boys... I am so going to kill at this Iron Chef/Editor...why...you'll find out. It doesn't matter what anime I get, my epic idea with still win the audience over.

Im gonna laugh if the "Secret Ingredient" screws your plan up. And its gonna sting even more cuz I can do it to your face roomie.

The lot of you have not faced me.

Prepare yourselves.

[Prinz Eugen]

A MAJOR CONTENDER has de-cloaked ...

WELCOME BACK!!

[murder_of_raven]

Half that pain is the fact that for whatever reason they didn't do it right to begin with.

Definitely agree with that statement. I have a copy of the original US DVD release of Evangelion that I tried to make an AMV with and finally I just gave up. They did such an incredibly bad job that I wasn't even sure where to start (the screen actually jiggled from side-to-side about every 5secs, I couldn't find anybody online who gave advice on how to fix that ).

[somanyturtles]

Definitely agree with that statement. I have a copy of the original US DVD release of Evangelion that I tried to make an AMV with and finally I just gave up. They did such an incredibly bad job that I wasn't even sure where to start (the screen actually jiggled from side-to-side about every 5secs, I couldn't find anybody online who gave advice on how to fix that ).

Easy fix for that..... use the platinum edition.

[murder_of_raven]

Easy fix for that..... use the platinum edition.

Which I clearly own

[murder_of_raven]

So there was some talk last year (mostly by me I'll admit ) about maybe moving the Iron Chef this year to before the convention so that competitors wouldn't have to spend such a huge portion of the convention working on them. I have decided that I'll be doing this this year no matter what, but this plan still sounds vastly preferable to the old way it worked... thoughts?

[somanyturtles]

The problem with having it contest before the convention is it negates one key element that makes "Iron Chef" what it is. The basis behind "Iron Chef" is that all the competitors are on an equal playing field like not knowing the secret ingredient, but most importantly under the time limit.

If we were to do the contest before the convention people's jobs, girlfriends, boyfriends, other AMVs, Abridged series (shameless plugs) , and whatever the hell else can get in the way giving others the added time advantage. Though it's hard and not totally fun to schedule editing around events and friends at con the bottom line is it's fair.

[Prinz Eugen]

[The] one key element that makes "Iron Chef" what it is. [...] the time limit.

I agree. That's the difference between the original idea behind the cooking show: (here are the ingredients - spazz on it now) versus growing blue-ribbon produce for the county fair. (You have months of cultivating and secret tricks.)

PS: word on abridged series is: check in directly with programming@kumoricon.org and they will see what they need to do for you.

[murder_of_raven]

Well, I think it could fairly be the day before the convention and still have the same time limit and leave people roughly as equal. The argument that people's schedules are more even during the convention falls through when you think about the fact that some of us run panels, have prior responsibilities, etc. I think before we start speculating on which it better for a theoretical participant, maybe we could just see who could/couldn't do if it was/wasn't during the convention?

[somanyturtles]

The argument that people's schedules are more even during the convention falls through when you think about the fact that some of us run panels, have prior responsibilities, etc.

The thing with that is running a panel, or doing a Skit, or going to any event at the convention is a choice. All of us last year and the years before had to juggle all the events we were either apart of or wanted to attend and making the entry. Its just part of the contest and it leaves all the contestants in the same bind. It's wouldn't be fair if we set a time limit and then one of us had to work for "x" hours and then be behind everyone else for it.

[thundercatlord]

I'd like to point out that most conventions that do an Iron Editor competition make you stay in the same room for several hours and edit. At least at Kumoricon we can edit in the comfort of our hotel rooms and come and go as we please. Somanyturtles and I left our room several times to go do other things, so I think the way it is is just fine. If you don't like it, you don't have to enter the Iron Chef Competition. 

[murder_of_raven]

If you don't like it, you don't have to enter the Iron Chef Competition. 

Oh, I'm not saying "I don't like it and it needs to be this way", it just seems to me that most people who are really invested in the convention show up for pre-reg anyway. But whatever, if other people don't like the idea then we don't have to change anything; the idea seemed more popular last year when I brought it up ::shrug::